The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

[Bellsprout]

Because when you "climb the mountain top" you never settle for anything less.

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Agree to disagree, then.

I guess I just don't really have a problem with guys like Flair and Jericho and JBL and HHH and in this scenario Punk taking a step down to do a story involving a lesser title.

[Bellsprout]

Cody Rhodes isnt the same as Punk. But that wasnt the point I was making. Lets say Punk wins the belt and holds it for 6 months, after he drops it, who will give a **** about that belt?

The second it changes hands, that imaginary boost of prestige is lost because the IC belt is inherently, NOT IMPORTANT. Money in the Banks are 10x more important and you get two holders of that a year. The WHC is what that title used to be. So this fantasy of that title meaning something, is just that, a fantasy. That title, with the way the WWE has built its programming, will never satisfy this prestige demand that (some) fans have for it.

So Punk doing a program with Axel for that belt is pointless to me. Not only because Punk would do nothing for a belt they dont even care about, but Punk has bitchslapped Axel since he debuted. Who really wants to see Punk fight Heyman's lamest puppet after he just went to war with Lesnar?

Its just weak from every angle. And Punk doesnt need it. However, it may be a necessary means to an end because Punk is still feuding with Heyman. So I guess he needs to kill Axel a few more times. But really its only a matter of time before they insert him into the corporation storyline in some capacity.

A few things.

1) I don't see why this belt has to be an afterthought just because there are more important things out there. The Hardcore belt used to mean more than the IC one does now. Just because MITB and the WHC mean more doesn't mean the IC belt can't matter too.

2) I really don't think the belt goes back into obscurity if say Punk loses it at Wrestlemania in a 40 minute match of the year to a Cesaro or Ambrose in a unification match. The person who goes over is pretty much made because they beat and earned the respect of Punk and they went through absolute hell in the name of winning the belt (retaining the built up meaning of it). And I don't think it hurts Punk at all. He's at the stage of his career that Jericho is, putting people over isn't going to bury him.

[TracerBullet]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Because when you "climb the mountain top" you never settle for anything less.

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I feel like this line of thinking is why we all constantly complain about ADR in the championship picture.

That said, I agree with both sides actually. I understand what Dayman is saying. Punk holding the belt gives it a reason to be on TV much more. It puts a big name with it. It also means that someone will have to beat Punk to get it and we know how huge of a name he is. If someone were to have some hell of a match that dragged on with Punk to win it, it doesn't really demean Punk at all as much as it gives that person a major boost (I'd say this would work better if he lost it to a face actually).

BUT, Punk may be too big of a name at this point. Having Punk hold the title for awhile likely means he's going to beat the challengers pretty easily for awhile making his title defenses kind of suck. It also keeps him out of the main event, which we all know he belongs in. Also beating him doesn't necessarily mean that prestige will stay on the belt. They have to actually do something with the belt afterwards. The winning and doing nothing with it is what got us here. Hell Cody did make the belt seem like it was worth something, then they took it off of him for Christian and forgot about it. No more promos with it or anything even though Christian is a good name to have associated with that belt. They do that, and beating Punk still means nothing. And based on the past, that's exactly what they'll do which means Punk just stays out of the limelight where he should be most of the time for nothing.

And I think you're selling Punk's title reign with the WWE championship short though King. If that hadn't have been shoehorned into yet another Cena/Rock program, it probably would have been bigger when he lost it, even if it was to Cena.

I also would say that there's 0 chance they'd push Punk down the card unless he wanted to be pushed down.

[kingkilla56]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

A few things.

1) I don't see why this belt has to be an afterthought just because there are more important things out there. The Hardcore belt used to mean more than the IC one does now. Just because MITB and the WHC mean more doesn't mean the IC belt can't matter too.

2) I really don't think the belt goes back into obscurity if say Punk loses it at Wrestlemania in a 40 minute match of the year to a Cesaro or Ambrose in a unification match. The person who goes over is pretty much made because they beat and earned the respect of Punk and they went through absolute hell in the name of winning the belt (retaining the built up meaning of it). And I don't think it hurts Punk at all. He's at the stage of his career that Jericho is, putting people over isn't going to bury him.

Nobody took the hardcore belt serious; lets not get crazy. And I disagree, Punk isnt in a place where he has to accept the role of Jericho. Not that losing will ruin him. He just doesnt have to put over every young guy he faces. Hes not there just yet. Give him another 8 years for that lol.

It sounds like you want the IC title to get WWE Championship levels of burn. Its just not gonna happen. Everything you wrote is WWE Championship stuff, and they did/are actually doing it with Daniel Bryan now. 40 minute Mania match of the year unification for the IC? You been watching that Hart Bulldog match havent you?

And I think you're selling Punk's title reign with the WWE championship short though King. If that hadn't have been shoehorned into yet another Cena/Rock program, it probably would have been bigger when he lost it, even if it was to Cena.

I also would say that there's 0 chance they'd push Punk down the card unless he wanted to be pushed down.

I though Cena should have beaten Punk and brought that story to a close the right way at Mania with Cena finally getting over on the guy he never could. I agree with you. But how it turned out...meh.

And Punk would be "pushed" down the card just by association of defending the IC title. Hes not in the upper card with that belt being his main focus. But I agree he wouldnt be pushed down in the sense of "buried". They just would be morons to try that with him. I could see Punk winning the IC title, but it would be a waste of time.

[philliesfan136]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Rocky/NOC:

- It appears that at least for right now, WWE is going with the assumption that The Rock won't be back next year as a short-term character as he has been for the past three years.

According to information given to a major licensee this past week, they were told not to produce any merchandise involving The Rock. They were told he could be used as far as a group shot of Superstars goes but not to produce anything specific because he was not going to be featured until 2015.

This was taken as a sign that The Rock is not going to do WrestleMania XXX. We still don't know if Rock has said this or not to WWE officials. It could be that an assumption was made over the call to not merchandise him individually.

- Here's the rumored card for WWE's Night of Champions pay-per-view:

* Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton for the WWE Title

* Rob Van Dam with Ricardo Rodriguez vs. Alberto Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Title

* Big Show and Mark Henry vs. Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns for the Tag Team Titles

* CM Punk vs. Curtis Axel for the Intercontinental Title

* Dolph Ziggler vs. Dean Ambrose for the United States Title

* One of the Total Divas vs. AJ Lee for the Divas Title

* The Usos vs. Erick Rowan and Luke Harper

[Gronk4M13]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

Rocky/NOC: It appears that at least for right now, WWE is going with the assumption that The Rock won't be back next year as a short-term character as he has been for the past three years.

According to information given to a major licensee this past week, they were told not to produce any merchandise involving The Rock. They were told he could be used as far as a group shot of Superstars goes but not to produce anything specific because he was not going to be featured until 2015.

This was taken as a sign that The Rock is not going to do WrestleMania XXX. We still don't know if Rock has said this or not to WWE officials. It could be that an assumption was made over the call to not merchandise him individually.

- Here's the rumored card for WWE's Night of Champions pay-per-view:

* Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton for the WWE Title

* Rob Van Dam with Ricardo Rodriguez vs. Alberto Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Title

* Big Show and Mark Henry vs. Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns for the Tag Team Titles

* CM Punk vs. Curtis Axel for the Intercontinental Title

* Dolph Ziggler vs. Dean Ambrose for the United States Title

* One of the Total Divas vs. AJ Lee for the Divas Title

* The Usos vs. Erick Rowan and Luke Harper

Gotta say, I'm glad Rock won't be back for a while. Why have him come back at all? I guess this business is all about making money, and Rock=$$$ but still.

Orton/Bryan WWE title, I like it. Bryan will probably get screwed again. Maybe a new member of this faction will"debut" by costing him the match. RVD/Del Rio could be good. If Show/Henry beat the Shield for the titles, I riot. Punk/Axel makes sense.Ziggler/Ambrose, awesome. They're still trying to push the Usos? Ughh. Pretty good rumored NOC card.

[BlueNGold]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

If that rumored card turns out to be true, those mid-card title matches are very interesting. Especially if both Punk and Ziggler win.

And since this has been the topic of discussion recently, my thinking is, why not let some of these main event/upper mid-card guys hold on to those belts? In no way could I see it being a bad thing to have guys like Punk and Ziggler hold the IC/US titles. It gives guys like Ziggler something to do when they're not chasing the WWE/World titles rather than being held in the status quo or being made to look like they're being "buried" (such an overused word here).

It would also give the lower guys and up-and-comers a ladder to climb, so to speak, instead of just, "Oh hey, here's the US title. You have fun with that." It would actually have some meaning to take it off of some of these established guys and it also opens the door for more potential and meaningful feuds and storylines, which is never a bad thing either and really something that's been lacking for the past decade, give or take.

[Ice_Cold345]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

If that rumored card turns out to be true, those mid-card title matches are very interesting. Especially if both Punk and Ziggler win.

And since this has been the topic of discussion recently, my thinking is, why not let some of these main event/upper mid-card guys hold on to those belts? In no way could I see it being a bad thing to have guys like Punk and Ziggler hold the IC/US titles. It gives guys like Ziggler something to do when they're not chasing the WWE/World titles rather than being held in the status quo or being made to look like they're being "buried" (such an overused word here).

It would also give the lower guys and up-and-comers a ladder to climb, so to speak, instead of just, "Oh hey, here's the US title. You have fun with that." It would actually have some meaning to take it off of some of these established guys and it also opens the door for more potential and meaningful feuds and storylines, which is never a bad thing either and really something that's been lacking for the past decade, give or take.

This is what I agree with. The IC belt is(or at least was) the "workhorse's title" (according to Stone Cold on his podcast with HBK.) It doesn't have to be the mid-card guys all the time, having a main event guy feud with it turns the title into something a little more special and when someone does beat the main event guy, it's kinda a big deal of sorts. Hell, during Jericho's heel suit run, he would put over guys lower on the card(like Evan Bourne.)

[TripleCrown9]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

But...but...Dolph Ziggler was the World Heavyweight Champion! He can't wrestle for the US title!!

[Chrisksaint]

I don't see the big deal with Punk having the IC title, I mean it's not like he's going to win the WWE title in the next few months it seems.

[fpac]

I don't see the big deal with Punk having the IC title, I mean it's not like he's going to win the WWE title in the next few months it seems.

I agree that he won't win the WWE title any time soon but I'm assuming they'll at least have him challenge for it at a PPV.

With Cena out there's not too many other people I can think of for Orton to headline a show with unless they just keep repeating Bryan/Orton for the next few months.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

But...but...Dolph Ziggler was the World Heavyweight Champion! He can't wrestle for the US title!!

As a huge fan of Ziggler I'm fine with them using him in the US Title picture as long as they plan to put him into something bigger again down the line, I just get a bad feeling that Ziggler re-enters the midcard picture and is there to stay. Not like Punk who is clearly at that top level and would obviously go right back as soon as he finishes his IC belt program.

[ubernoob]

As a huge fan of Ziggler I'm fine with them using him in the US Title picture as long as they plan to put him into something bigger again down the line, I just get a bad feeling that Ziggler re-enters the midcard picture and is there to stay. Not like Punk who is clearly at that top level and would obviously go right back as soon as he finishes his IC belt program.

I could not care less "where someone is on the card."

Ziggler could feud for the NXT title (or no title at all) to open every RAW and I'd be happy if there was a good coherent storyline.

[DonkeyJote]

I could not care less "where someone is on the card."

Ziggler could feud for the NXT title (or no title at all) to open every RAW and I'd be happy if there was a good coherent storyline.

As long as he gets good tv time, yeah. But being moved down the card normally equates to less time on tv.

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[soltrain]

Re: The OS WWE 'Dirt' Thread

I really do hope we are getting Punk/Bryan at Mania for the title somehow.