Ring of Honor

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  • CWood2
    TNA & WWE thanks you
    • May 2004
    • 4356

    #1

    Ring of Honor

    We've got forums dedicated to WWE and TNA, but Ring of Honor is slowly and maybe not so steadily trying to emerge as a third, legit company in the United States while attempting to rid themselves of the indy/niche label. Despite airing shows on HDnet for the past few months, not so stellar PPV buys and limited capital of course make it a struggle to expand their brand.

    I'm a huge fan of the promotion from 4 years ago, and frankly, still a wrestling fan do in large part to their in ring style and what I discovered when I was tired of Raw, Impact, etc.

    Where are they in a year, and do you care? If you care, discuss here!
    40
    Evolving as steady national promotion.
    0%
    15
    Struggling. ROH is niche and peaked 2 yrs ago.
    0%
    14
    Out of business or bought out.
    0%
    5
    Don't really care; I'll take WWE and/or TNA thank you.
    0%
    6
  • Spear
    Video Game Dev
    • Sep 2002
    • 4434

    #2
    Re: Ring of Honor

    I voted that they'd be evolving. I'm not too familiar with ROH but figure that they are clearly making progress by getting that TV deal with HDNet and they are now on PPV.

    I think they are a ways away from being in the same classification that TNA and WWE are in.

    Funny, I was going to start an ROH related thread tonight because I plan on going to my first ROH show in July. They are coming to Toronto for a double shot, I work the first night they are here (its too bad because Bret Hart was going to be signing autographs). I'll have to settle for the second night when Lance Storm and Ric Flair are in attendance.

    My question is to those who have attended an ROH show. Am I better off getting a general admission ticket or settling for a 6th row ringside? What about waiting it out and seeing what opens up closer to the time or even buying off a scalper? I'm going by myself so I'd only need a single.

    No intention to hijack the thread, hopefully it wont.
    Owner, Spear Interactive
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    • TimmeH
      Cult of Personality
      • Jun 2003
      • 4588

      #3
      Re: Ring of Honor

      Originally posted by Spear
      My question is to those who have attended an ROH show. Am I better off getting a general admission ticket or settling for a 6th row ringside? What about waiting it out and seeing what opens up closer to the time or even buying off a scalper? I'm going by myself so I'd only need a single.

      No intention to hijack the thread, hopefully it wont.
      General Admission tickets kinda depends on the venue. I have no idea about Toronto, but I've heard that GA in Chicago is actually like the best seats in the house because they roll out the bleachers that gives a great view. But if you're deciding between 6th row & GA, I think I'd go with GA. 6th Row is getting a ways back to spend the extra money.



      As for the topic at hand...I think they're kinda struggling at the moment. They're trying to transition from being a niche product to something more mainstream, but by doing so they've turned off many of their diehard fans. I know people who bought every ROH show through the first six years who haven't bought a show in months now. Personally, I have over 70 DVDs, but after catching up through the first half of 08, I lost interest and haven't bought any sense.

      Personally, Nigel's reign ruined alot of the fun for me seeing as I'm not a Nigel fan. Plus they ruined Chris Hero! Knockout Kid? Booo

      I've watched a few of the HDNet shows, they don't do it for me. The action is much slower, and crowd reactions are damn near muted, and the commentary has gotten bad. I'm hoping that's not what the DVDs are like because I am planning on picking up a few of the "major shows" that I haven't seen over the last year when I have some spare money.

      It's just not the same for me. I loved ROH in 06 and 07 when AmDrag & Morishima were champs. There were some great feuds during that span as well with Jimmy/Whitmer, Cabana/Homicide, ROH/CZW, etc. The feuds started not feeling the same later in 07 when they'd repeat the same match over and over and over(see Briscoes-AOTF, Briscoes-Steenerico)...even the last Nigel-AmDrag match that was on PPV didn't feel as special...

      I dunno, when I tune in to the TV show or buy a PPV or read the results, it just feels like they're trying to be WWE, which isn't working. WWE does sports entertainment better than anyone else, there's no point in trying to copy them. I feel they were better off creating their own fan base based on pro wrestling.

      But who knows, maybe they'll start putting things together? I hope they make it, I'd love to see them succeed as I feel we need more options. But at the same time, I've lost alot of interest. I probably own 90% of their shows from Summer 05 through to Summer 07...since then I may have maybe 10? It just isn't the same. And with the economy as is, if they turn off too many fans, their future may not be too bright.

      Adam just needs to find the right balance between pro wrestling and sports entertainment. Gabe always leaned way too much towards the pro wrestling aspect, but now Adam is booking alot of crap lol. There is a way to do sports entertainment without ruining the integrity that ROH had in the ring.

      I don't know if any of that made any sense, just kinda rambling at this point lol
      Co-Commish of the OS Vets I & II
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      • ChrisHero
        Banned
        • Jul 2003
        • 1109

        #4
        Re: Ring of Honor

        TimmeH pretty much said everything that I wanted to. I haven't paid ROH much attention since the end of 2007, I've tried watching some shows after that point and couldn't get into a single one. Although I can see myself paying a bit more attention in the future with some familiar names making their return.

        THE EMBASSY FOREVER.

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        • goh
          Banned
          • Aug 2003
          • 20755

          #5
          Re: Ring of Honor

          I just watched the last 2 shows this week (from the 16th and 23rd). For much of the first show I was wondering if the code of honor was still around as it didn't appear to be. The comentating was terrible and the crowd was kinda dead-ish. I liked the 2nd show much more but still not the ROH I remember. I kept thinking back to the London/Styles/Ki three way. However it was better than Raw or TNA have been recently. There were 2 really good matches on each show and with a 1 hour show that's great,thankfully it was also 95% wrestling because the promos they did do sucked.

          They really don't have the spectacle part down and as already noted the comentary was poor. I had to look up a bunch of stuff afterwards to see what happend to the ROH I knew. New code of honor,merged Pure title,why there's count out now etc. I never noticed no one held the title more than once. At least their titles come off as vaulable and they've got some semblance of tag divison. I think they'll still be struggling this time next year but I hope I'm wrong and it'll blow up so it'll put pressure on the others to be good.

          I'll still watch it though since I'm not watching Raw untill Ortonbot loses the title and someone decent gets it and TNA,I have no idea what they're thinking and will watch at random. Looking forward to the 4 way match,don't know anything about Tyler Black (maybe I do,was he in WSX?) but I know the other 3 are fantastic and that should be a great match.
          Last edited by goh; 05-27-2009, 11:49 PM.

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          • JiggidyJames
            All Star
            • Apr 2005
            • 5267

            #6
            Re: Ring of Honor

            As someone who was calling for Gabe's head during the Morishima reign, this falls into the "be careful what you wish for..." category.

            Gabe needed a break, no two ways about it. His booking got way too pretentious and flat out boring. Not a slight on him, burnout happens to everyone. There was chance for some real emotional reactions from the fans with Morishima's run...dominating outsider foreigner beats the crap out of all challengers. But no, we need him to have even matches with Brent Albright and Claudio. No, we needed something different. Morishima wasn't Danielson, yet he was booked to be the same type of champion after the first two months or so. And the way it ended with Nigel winning the title after what, four chances? Terrible.

            I could go on and on about Gabe in '08, but that horse is long dead.

            Tim said it, there's a balance. That's all I wanted. All they had to do was give Gabe a break and at the very least have a de-facto agent with a pair of balls and a brain. The things that I didn't like about ROH -- the marathon shows, the same moves in multiplie matches, the paint by the numbers pretentious & boring booking...they could have been done away with without blowing everything up. I wanted to see spot-fu, I wanted to see puro karaoke, not an out of shape D-Lo Brown having a punch-kick match with Jay Briscoe. You keep your core and build from there, not tell them "tough ****" and try all over again.

            The company will stay afloat as long as Cary is happy. And he's happy not being Gabe's bitch and hearing what he thinks he wants to hear from Pearce. Super nice guy when he's not ripping off Hannah Montana fans or turning a blind eye to Syd double selling seats, but a total mark. I wouldn't even be suprised if Pearce was a double-agent from the NWA.

            I voted #2, btw. Don't know exactly what the future holds, but I can't see it being good.
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            • ty5oke
              87%
              • Feb 2003
              • 2912

              #7
              Re: Ring of Honor

              I've been enjoying the ROH on HDnet series. The first Black-Danielson match a couple weeks ago was one of the best matches I've seen in a while, and the 2nd match was pretty well done too.

              The commentators have got to go.
              Seattle Pilots GM (2011 - ) Record: 152 - 195

              Operation Sports OOTP League

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              • CWood2
                TNA & WWE thanks you
                • May 2004
                • 4356

                #8
                Re: Ring of Honor

                I voted #1 optimistically, but I really side towards Timme and JJ's rationale. I was way more excited about the product 2 years ago, and near ecstatic before that when I discovered it.

                Tough to project what their brand expansion does to their product long term. But one thing ROH really HAS done a great job of is developing their own talent, which is something WWE is spectacular at and TNA doesn't have a clue on. The way they've booked Tyler Black makes me question whether they can produce another Samoa Joe or CM Punk, but Davey Richards has a chance if they give him a run at the world title once he and Eddie are done. Aside from Dragon, he's about the most impressive in ring competitor they have right now that hasn't been pushed like an Aries or Nigel have already.

                Spear - live shows are awesome!! I've been to 3 in Boston, and got to see KENTA my first time out. Looking forward to your reactions if this thread is still alive then or not!

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                • TimmeH
                  Cult of Personality
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 4588

                  #9
                  Re: Ring of Honor

                  Originally posted by CWood2
                  The way they've booked Tyler Black makes me question whether they can produce another Samoa Joe or CM Punk, but Davey Richards has a chance if they give him a run at the world title once he and Eddie are done. Aside from Dragon, he's about the most impressive in ring competitor they have right now that hasn't been pushed like an Aries or Nigel have already.
                  While I haven't watched must ROH lately, from what I've been hearing, Davey is starting to pick up some steam, which makes me happy. I've always enjoyed his work, but really since his initial push in 06, he hasn't been treated like a true threat. I'm glad to hear he's becoming a threat again.


                  Out of curiousity, does anyone know which brings in more revenue, the live shows or the DVD sales? I just ask this because I've noticed alot of ROH fans complain about suffering from burnout from 07/08 shows, and that's why Pearce has drastically cut back on the in-ring product. While I can understand that if you're live at the show, I never felt that watching the DVDs. But at the same time, I can stop the show at any time and continue at a later time, while the fans in attendance obviously cannot...which is probably why I didn't feel that same effect. However, that burnout factor didn't seem to have a major effect on live show attendances, and even if it did, would it really outweigh the DVD sales they've been losing with this new style? It was much easier for me to buy a four hour Gabe show which guaranteed me four great matches than a Pearce show which might have one great match and a bunch of above average matches.

                  I mean, looking at this year's shows, 7YA seems like the only must buy. Even during the tail end of Gabe's run when things were getting stale, I could find a must buy show at least once every two months.


                  Once again, I don't know if I'm making sense of not lol
                  Co-Commish of the OS Vets I & II
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                  • ChrisHero
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 1109

                    #10
                    Re: Ring of Honor

                    Originally posted by TimmeH
                    I mean, looking at this year's shows, 7YA seems like the only must buy.
                    Pretty much, most of the other shows look to be filled with uninteresting matches and garbage gimmicks (Grizzly Redwood, Rhett Titus). But the opening segment from the below video wire, convinced me to pick up the 7 Year Anniversary show.

                    Comment

                    • TimmeH
                      Cult of Personality
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 4588

                      #11
                      Re: Ring of Honor

                      Originally posted by ChrisHero
                      Pretty much, most of the other shows look to be filled with uninteresting matches and garbage gimmicks (Grizzly Redwood, Rhett Titus). But the opening segment from the below video wire, convinced me to pick up the 7 Year Anniversary show.

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MkgZ33Mgpg
                      Yeah, I want it, but at the same time, I don't think I can convince myself to spend more than $9 for an ROH DVD anymore. In other words, I think I'll just wait eight months until it's in a Big Ten sale...assuming the company is still afloat then.
                      Co-Commish of the OS Vets I & II
                      Vets I | Green Bay Packers(11-6)
                      | Last Game: L 31-6 @ CAR (Wild Card Round)
                      Vets II | Washington Redskins(13-6) | Last Game: L 37-34 OT @ ATL (NFC Conference Championship)

                      Vets Bowl I Champion | Vets Bowl II Runner-Up

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                      • FedEx227
                        Pro
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 568

                        #12
                        Re: Ring of Honor

                        They are losing a lot of steam. I hadn't gone to any shows in Chicago in about a year or so (last one was the Briscoes vs. Generico/Steen Ladder Match)

                        Last show in Chicago maybe a month or two ago, there was definitely about 100-200 less people. They use to set up stands on the sides and what not, and the front seats use to go back about 10-15 rows, this time it was only about 8 with none of the side seating.

                        Also the crowd was dead. There were a few good matches here and there, but it was nothing like it was 2 years ago. The crowd barely made a sound and you could hear a pindrop through most of the show outside of Colt Cabana's entrance.

                        They need to figure out something soon in my mind or they are in for a definite exodus.
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                        • JiggidyJames
                          All Star
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 5267

                          #13
                          Re: Ring of Honor

                          Originally posted by TimmeH
                          While I haven't watched must ROH lately, from what I've been hearing, Davey is starting to pick up some steam, which makes me happy. I've always enjoyed his work, but really since his initial push in 06, he hasn't been treated like a true threat. I'm glad to hear he's becoming a threat again.


                          Out of curiousity, does anyone know which brings in more revenue, the live shows or the DVD sales? I just ask this because I've noticed alot of ROH fans complain about suffering from burnout from 07/08 shows, and that's why Pearce has drastically cut back on the in-ring product. While I can understand that if you're live at the show, I never felt that watching the DVDs. But at the same time, I can stop the show at any time and continue at a later time, while the fans in attendance obviously cannot...which is probably why I didn't feel that same effect. However, that burnout factor didn't seem to have a major effect on live show attendances, and even if it did, would it really outweigh the DVD sales they've been losing with this new style? It was much easier for me to buy a four hour Gabe show which guaranteed me four great matches than a Pearce show which might have one great match and a bunch of above average matches.

                          I mean, looking at this year's shows, 7YA seems like the only must buy. Even during the tail end of Gabe's run when things were getting stale, I could find a must buy show at least once every two months.


                          Once again, I don't know if I'm making sense of not lol
                          I never got the Davey hate. "Yuck, he's trying to be '95 Beniot". Sooo...? But Eddie Edwards...that's my favorite guy to heckle. With his bland little boy look and steroid man-boobs he's just too easy a target.

                          I was burnt out with DVDs, too. Very few times did I make it through a show in one sitting. Sometimes it was my schedule, but most times it was "I can come back to this later". Being at most live shows was murder. But I wasn't burnt enough to not go to the next one. I might not watch any new DVDs for a month or something like that. Towards the end I wasn't even ordering much at all. I felt I HAD to go to shows, though. I didn't want to miss that MOTYC and I'm really just a live wrestling fiend. I would make a day out of it, hanging out in the city before and after. Getting waaay too drunk and asking Go Shiozaki how it felt to wash Misawa's balls is a moment I'll cherish forever.

                          I gotta figure DVDs are (or were) most of the income. They were running shows in some money losing places, but would go back again and again. Two trips Japan...?

                          As far as 7YA...last two matches were awesome, Colt & Danielson/Bison & Rave was OK, rest of the show ranged from meh (Lynn/Quack) to total garbage (Briscoe/D-Lo). I thought the silly rules 6-man was in between those, but that match got tons of hate. Not a bad show.
                          xbl gamertag: jiggidyjames72

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                          • CWood2
                            TNA & WWE thanks you
                            • May 2004
                            • 4356

                            #14
                            Re: Ring of Honor

                            Revenue for DVDs has to drastically outweigh what they get with live shows. If a thousand or so people show up on a great outing, with an average ticket price of $10, that's just enough to cover the cost of the talent, building rental and production costs, and travel. And if you look at some of the top selling DVDs (Supercard of Honor, Joe vs. Kobashi, GBH VI), it'd be virtually impossible to make money after flying these guys out from Japan unless they were committed to huge DVD buys.

                            But in my opinion, this is the inherent hurdle for ROH. Their business model has been built on DVD sales, and nothing else is really delivering the business or expanding the brand rapidly enough to make the company liquid during tough times. PPV sales are bad. HDnet is not yet even on my Comcast channel lineup, and live ticket sales are down due to a number of factors (economy, booking shift, loss of big names).

                            This all makes me really believe the following ... the next champion after Jerry Lynn could be the most pivotal in company history. They need new feuds, new matchups (Dragon/Davey/KENTA 3 way anyone?), and the in ring superiority that put them on the map to start with. Without it, they could lose their TV deal like NOAH did recently and lose out on this great opportunity.

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                            • goh
                              Banned
                              • Aug 2003
                              • 20755

                              #15
                              Re: Ring of Honor

                              After this last show I'm not sure they've got this heel/face stuff down right. That'd go a long way in improving things maybe. Did one of the announcers say "slap the puppets,it's all over!"? The tag title match was great.

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