Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action figures

[Bellsprout]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

let him turn heel after cheating Taker out of his streak at WrestleMania 29.

If they end the streak like that, I won't watch anymore.

It either shouldn't end, or someone should beat him legitimately in an hour-long slugfest.

[TheShizNo1]

If they end the streak like that, I won't watch anymore.

It either shouldn't end, or someone should beat him legitimately in an hour-long slugfest.

I would actually be all for that.

[Redacted01]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Can the Undertaker even wrestle for an hour anymore? The match last year was pretty good, but you can only have one match a year and keep putting on a show for so long, unless it is against guys he has faced many times and there are only a few of those left.

[TheShizNo1]

This should be his last, for his sake.

[goh]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

WWE has no competition, hence the need to turn Cena heel is less than it was in all the situations you mentioned.

They still have ratings to consider.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

They still have ratings to consider.

Would they really do something that could potentially cause the company to lose millions in revenue in order to get a few ratings points? Especially when it's not like the ratings are doing terribly. As long as Raw is still top 10 for Monday nights and top 25 for the weekly ratings, they won't make a change as major as turning Cena in order for a few ratings points.

The question I have - and I'd really like to know what some of you think about this - is that even if/when they turn Cena and appease those that have wanted it for so long, how long until those same folks find something else to gripe/complain about? I know people (not necessarily here, but in other places on the internet) seem to think turning Cena along with ending PG will be the magical elixir to make everything good again, but if there's still crappy booking (like there is at times now) and bad storylines, people will still complain. I think turning Cena will make people happy for about a month before they find something new to gripe about. Again, not talking about the folks on here because y'all are pretty level headed, but others will likely be different.

[TheShizNo1]

Would they really do something that could potentially cause the company to lose millions in revenue in order to get a few ratings points? Especially when it's not like the ratings are doing terribly. As long as Raw is still top 10 for Monday nights and top 25 for the weekly ratings, they won't make a change as major as turning Cena in order for a few ratings points.

The question I have - and I'd really like to know what some of you think about this - is that even if/when they turn Cena and appease those that have wanted it for so long, how long until those same folks find something else to gripe/complain about? I know people (not necessarily here, but in other places on the internet) seem to think turning Cena along with ending PG will be the magical elixir to make everything good again, but if there's still crappy booking (like there is at times now) and bad storylines, people will still complain. I think turning Cena will make people happy for about a month before they find something new to gripe about. Again, not talking about the folks on here because y'all are pretty level headed, but others will likely be different.

2 things.

1: why do you guys think WWE will lose do much? Am I naive to think that Cena is not bigger than the WWE? That's what I feel like you and Santino are saying. Has a heel/face turn ever hurt a company that bad? That's a serious question.

2. I don't mind this PG era (except for water bottle slaps replacing chair shots). I didnt mind Cena until he stayed the same. Edge, Randy Orton, Undertaker, HHH.....guys that stayed heel or face for a while but redefined their character over time. When I stopped watching wrestling, Cena was who he is now. When I started watching wrestling again 2-3 years after that, he was the exact same. It's stale. Yes, the same thing can happen as heel, but I think there's more creative freedom w/ a heel. Unless your an edgy face like Rock, SCSA, DX, etc. Even if they did that w/ Cena, I'd be satisfied. If e were to turn heel and became stale, then yes RR, I'd be annoyed and would complain. But if he stayed fresh and evolved, no complaints from me. Hell, if he'd tweak his character now I'd be fine.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

2 things.

1: why do you guys think WWE will lose do much? Am I naive to think that Cena is not bigger than the WWE? That's what I feel like you and Santino are saying. Has a heel/face turn ever hurt a company that bad? That's a serious question.

The thing to consider with Cena that wasn't the case with the scenarios you mentioned earlier is, like I said, the lack of competition. WCW had WWF and vice versa, which is why the Hogan turn was done. Not saying that Cena is bigger than those guys or bigger than the company, but when he accounts for 1/5 of the revenue, he's a pretty damn big deal.

Would turning Cena really bring in more revenue than that or make people who aren't watching now start watching again? Maybe short term, but in the long term is doubtful IMO. Obviously there's no way of knowing, but WWE's in a position now where they don't have to risk it and can wait for the absolute right time to turn him.

Again, not saying that turning Cena wouldn't go over well - it could go over crazy. But it could also fall flat on its face and cost the company to lose millions (and Vince never likes losing money lol). Yeah you could just turn him back face if it fails, but by then the Cena character would be pretty much dead as far as being the massive money maker he is now.

2. I don't mind this PG era (except for water bottle slaps replacing chair shots). I didnt mind Cena until he stayed the same. Edge, Randy Orton, Undertaker, HHH.....guys that stayed heel or face for a while but redefined their character over time. When I stopped watching wrestling, Cena was who he is now. When I started watching wrestling again 2-3 years after that, he was the exact same. It's stale. Yes, the same thing can happen as heel, but I think there's more creative freedom w/ a heel. Unless your an edgy face like Rock, SCSA, DX, etc. Even if they did that w/ Cena, I'd be satisfied. If e were to turn heel and became stale, then yes RR, I'd be annoyed and would complain. But if he stayed fresh and evolved, no complaints from me. Hell, if he'd tweak his character now I'd be fine.

Hey, I'm right there with you on some level. I stopped watching around 07-08 because I was bored with the product. Not just Cena but just overall lack of interest. Nothing wrong with that. I used to be alot more in the 'Cena should turn heel' crowd and used to hate on Cena.

But now I kinda respect what he does and like that he's a guy who people love to hate on but still goes out there and gets the job done. I'm kinda a natural contrarian, which explains why I like guys like Cena and Orton who aren't that popular on here but am not so much a fan of Punk who everyone loves.

[TheShizNo1]

The thing to consider with Cena that wasn't the case with the scenarios you mentioned earlier is, like I said, the lack of competition. WCW had WWF and vice versa, which is why the Hogan turn was done. Not saying that Cena is bigger than those guys or bigger than the company, but when he accounts for 1/5 of the revenue, he's a pretty damn big deal.

Would turning Cena really bring in more revenue than that or make people who aren't watching now start watching again? Maybe short term, but in the long term is doubtful IMO. Obviously there's no way of knowing, but WWE's in a position now where they don't have to risk it and can wait for the absolute right time to turn him.

Again, not saying that turning Cena wouldn't go over well - it could go over crazy. But it could also fall flat on its face and cost the company to lose millions (and Vince never likes losing money lol). Yeah you could just turn him back face if it fails, but by then the Cena character would be pretty much dead as far as being the massive money maker he is now.



Hey, I'm right there with you on some level. I stopped watching around 07-08 because I was bored with the product. Not just Cena but just overall lack of interest. Nothing wrong with that. I used to be alot more in the 'Cena should turn heel' crowd and used to hate on Cena.

But now I kinda respect what he does and like that he's a guy who people love to hate on but still goes out there and gets the job done. I'm kinda a natural contrarian, which explains why I like guys like Cena and Orton who aren't that popular on here but am not so much a fan of Punk who everyone loves.

Damn, yea, you and Santino are right. I didn't know he made as much as 1/5 of their money. I'm almost positive he wouldn't sell more b/c the little kids probably wouldn't be begging for his stuff. There's no top face now, so I can understand the hesitation in that department too. I just feel between no and WM gives enough time for that and facing The Rock makes it easier. Also in that time frame they can start building a face. But understand oh and Santino's points.

I also respect Cena, the man, for what he does outside the ring. I also believe him when he says he always gives 110%. Just don't like the staleness of the character. For that matter, I never liked superman or hulk hogan (only Hollywood). So maybe that could be a part of it to. Then I guess I'm left w/ the question of if not now, then when?

[TMagic]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Does the Cena turn have any chance to make MORE money for the company?

Now this is pure conjecture, like everything else we say about a Cena turn, but lets say Cena does in fact turn.

Now I remember back when I was a big Rock fan as a kid, didn't matter if he was a face or a heel, I still liked the Rock. He was my favorite wrestler no matter what. Now, I don't know if you guys' experienced the same thing as children watching wrestling. But thats how it was for me. Him changing heel didn't make me stop liking him. I felt more like I was on his side when people booed him and what not.

What I'm thinking is that Cena will still retain a lot of the Lil' Jimmies of the world. They might even think he's cooler, something like how kids thought Venom was cooler than Spiderman even though he's a bad guy.

Now, inevitably, you're going to have some "men" go back to liking Cena again. There are also going to be those who still think Cena sucks no matter what he does. But you're going to have some people hop on the Cena bandwagon if he turns.

So all in all, I don't know that he will be losing that many fans at all. And the "Cena Sucks" shirts will still sell out.


In addition, the ratings will undoubtedly go up. More ratings equate to more exposure and more money for the WWE. With that increased exposure, more guys will get a chance to shine and be the top face, like CM Punk or Orton.

And with Cena being heel, he can put anyone over as a face. Whatever face he feuds with will get major support from the fans. So in effect, a heel Cena can create many fan favorites.

I don't see what makes Cena so unique that he can be the only guy to hold down the top spot. If he wasn't at the top, people would naturally gravitate towards another top guy.

[TheVinylHippo]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Does the Cena turn have any chance to make MORE money for the company?

Now this is pure conjecture, like everything else we say about a Cena turn, but lets say Cena does in fact turn.

Now I remember back when I was a big Rock fan as a kid, didn't matter if he was a face or a heel, I still liked the Rock. He was my favorite wrestler no matter what. Now, I don't know if you guys' experienced the same thing as children watching wrestling. But thats how it was for me. Him changing heel didn't make me stop liking him. I felt more like I was on his side when people booed him and what not.

What I'm thinking is that Cena will still retain a lot of the Lil' Jimmies of the world. They might even think he's cooler, something like how kids thought Venom was cooler than Spiderman even though he's a bad guy.

Now, inevitably, you're going to have some "men" go back to liking Cena again. There are also going to be those who still think Cena sucks no matter what he does. But you're going to have some people hop on the Cena bandwagon if he turns.

So all in all, I don't know that he will be losing that many fans at all. And the "Cena Sucks" shirts will still sell out.


In addition, the ratings will undoubtedly go up. More ratings equate to more exposure and more money for the WWE. With that increased exposure, more guys will get a chance to shine and be the top face, like CM Punk or Orton.

And with Cena being heel, he can put anyone over as a face. Whatever face he feuds with will get major support from the fans. So in effect, a heel Cena can create many fan favorites.

I don't see what makes Cena so unique that he can be the only guy to hold down the top spot. If he wasn't at the top, people would naturally gravitate towards another top guy.

I was the same exact way with Stone Cold. When he turned at WM17 (didn't see it live, though), and the night after he joined with Trips to form the Two Man Power Trip, I didn't care. I was going to love SCSA no matter what. I was 10-years-old at the time, too.

As for Cena, I agree with everything you posted. Cena as a heel could get over a lot of guys who may be having that problem right now, and people are still going to dislike him regardless. I, for one, would jump on that bandwagon, although I don't want to see rapper Cena recycled as his heel character, though. I'd like to see a new version.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

I agree that a Cena turn isn't a magical elixir.

I just want to see it happen because it would be something to happen.

[goh]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Would they really do something that could potentially cause the company to lose millions in revenue in order to get a few ratings points?

They could potentially gain millions too. Not like it'd be hard to turn him back,especially with the current storyline. Can just say Kane got to him,he's sorry to his fans and he won't let it happen again.

[Segagendude]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Didn't the Hogan heel turn put WCW ahead of the WWE (WWF then) in the ratings?

A Cena turn certainly wouldn't hurt........

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Raw 01/16/12 - She asked for a new pair of heels,got Swagger & Ziggler action fig

Didn't the Hogan heel turn put WCW ahead of the WWE (WWF then) in the ratings?

A Cena turn certainly wouldn't hurt........

I don't say this about much, but I think that's probably a once in a lifetime scenario. We're talking the biggest name in wrestling ever (in terms of mainstream recognition) and THE wrestling hero of 2 decades turning just like that.

Cena's already been a heel, doesn't have the same support as a face, there's no nostalgia at play, etc...no way it would have the same reaction or impact.

As much as I don't personally like his character, I'm fine with them leaving Cena in the role he's working into now. I don't think they can garner enough heat for him as a heel anyway, ironically enough. If anything, all the booing from the "hardcore" or "grownup" crowd has galvanized his base. It would take him completely breaking character and doing something awful for the kids and women who support him to jump ship at this point.

It's the perfect setup for WWE right now IMO. I think they are playing it well right now too by trumping up the split (as opposed to before when they had the announcers trying to act like it wasn't going on to that extent). He can still occasionally snap off on certain guys and stay in character. He'll be forgiven by his base and dubbed an even bigger hypocrite by those booing. It only further pushes the split and keeps his character relevant.