WWE 13 Slider Thread

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  • Steven547
    MVP
    • May 2004
    • 3797

    #136
    Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

    Originally posted by cedwebb
    I have been re rating attributes and I am getting really great matches. I am keeping the game difficulty on normal but changing the momentum rate in match creator before every match to slow. Again I am just watching CPU v CPU.
    I've been testing with Ryback and Z Ryder. I have not been getting good results at all. Even though the highest attribute rating Ryder has is a 63 and Rybacks is a 90, Ryder actually won a match hands down. He completely dominated. What are your ratings for Ryback and Ryder?

    I've heard that putting all the reversals at 0 promotes a more offensive match, in favor of the higher wrestler. Anyone try this?

    Comment

    • cedwebb
      MVP
      • Oct 2005
      • 1160

      #137
      Originally posted by Steven547
      I've been testing with Ryback and Z Ryder. I have not been getting good results at all. Even though the highest attribute rating Ryder has is a 63 and Rybacks is a 90, Ryder actually won a match hands down. He completely dominated. What are your ratings for Ryback and Ryder?

      I've heard that putting all the reversals at 0 promotes a more offensive match, in favor of the higher wrestler. Anyone try this?
      I haven't changed the ratings yet for Ryback or Ryder as I just got the game a couple days ago and have been doing it slowly as I have been downloading and testing sliders. I have used Ryback in one match only and he was a beast. I put him up against the downloaded Taker and the match was pretty good. It lasted around 10 min and Ryback beat him and was able to kick out of a tombstone believe it or not. Again when I did this match they both were out of the box ratings but I had the sliders set and momentum rate set to slow.

      Comment

      • Steven547
        MVP
        • May 2004
        • 3797

        #138
        Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

        Originally posted by cedwebb
        I haven't changed the ratings yet for Ryback or Ryder as I just got the game a couple days ago and have been doing it slowly as I have been downloading and testing sliders. I have used Ryback in one match only and he was a beast. I put him up against the downloaded Taker and the match was pretty good. It lasted around 10 min and Ryback beat him and was able to kick out of a tombstone believe it or not. Again when I did this match they both were out of the box ratings but I had the sliders set and momentum rate set to slow.
        I think when the rating are pretty close, there isn't much of an issue. But when you have a 90 OVR vs someone who is lower (in my test, OVR of 63), it feels like it's two ovr 90's going at it.

        Comment

        • cedwebb
          MVP
          • Oct 2005
          • 1160

          #139
          Ok guys I did some messing around after getting some really short matches and I have something you can try that I really think will give some awesome CPU v CPU matches. I am in the process of re rating everyone using the ratings thread, so guys will drop a bit in overall which is good if you want longer more drawn out matches. I started to see the really short matches after re rating and did some research as to what made the game so good last year for me. To make a long story short I ended up dropping strike power and grapple power by 20 points even after I re rated. So a guy like HHH had hit power down to around 50 or so. Did him to him and Lesnar and had a really good match that lasted 10 min. Did the same to del rio and hart and had a good 8 min match. Again try dropping strike and grapple power by 20 an see what happens. Hope this helps.

          Comment

          • Steven547
            MVP
            • May 2004
            • 3797

            #140
            Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

            Originally posted by cedwebb
            Ok guys I did some messing around after getting some really short matches and I have something you can try that I really think will give some awesome CPU v CPU matches. I am in the process of re rating everyone using the ratings thread, so guys will drop a bit in overall which is good if you want longer more drawn out matches. I started to see the really short matches after re rating and did some research as to what made the game so good last year for me. To make a long story short I ended up dropping strike power and grapple power by 20 points even after I re rated. So a guy like HHH had hit power down to around 50 or so. Did him to him and Lesnar and had a really good match that lasted 10 min. Did the same to del rio and hart and had a good 8 min match. Again try dropping strike and grapple power by 20 an see what happens. Hope this helps.
            Its not so much wrestlers with close ratings...the issue is when you have a high rated guy vs an extremely low rating. There isnt much difference.

            Comment

            • Buckeyed
              Rookie
              • Feb 2012
              • 433

              #141
              Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

              Originally posted by Steven547
              Its not so much wrestlers with close ratings...the issue is when you have a high rated guy vs an extremely low rating. There isnt much difference.
              That is because it plays like a fighting game instead of the WWE. Honestly, I have no idea how they would make this play like a wrestling entertainment game. Ratings are a bit odd for this type of game. Cena is rated like a beast while others are rated low even though they have been champions too. If ratings matter then how do you have a Kofi Kingston beat a John Cena?

              This might be one of the hardest games to get to play "sim" style. With the differences in weight and the fact that WWE chooses who to push, how do you make it a game without giving away who the winner is? For example, if there is an option in Universe mode that asks who you want to push in a slider type format, and you set Hunico's at max for a big push does he then beat everyone or at least win his match at the PPV?

              It will be very interesting to see how 2K envisions this aspect of the game. Casual fans might not like this if it means they can't win every match by spamming the same attack. This is where 2K can use cut scenes to their advantage. User spams moves like crazy but their win ruins the story line...introduce a cut scene that makes it impossible for them to win. That way if the user hits 6 super kicks and the CPU kicks out every time they won't feel cheated like an EA game would do. Instead, the game realizes it isn't looking good for the CPU and uses a cut scene.

              Sorry for the ramble but I had $0.02 to spare.

              Comment

              • Steven547
                MVP
                • May 2004
                • 3797

                #142
                Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                Originally posted by Buckeyed
                That is because it plays like a fighting game instead of the WWE. Honestly, I have no idea how they would make this play like a wrestling entertainment game. Ratings are a bit odd for this type of game. Cena is rated like a beast while others are rated low even though they have been champions too. If ratings matter then how do you have a Kofi Kingston beat a John Cena?

                This might be one of the hardest games to get to play "sim" style. With the differences in weight and the fact that WWE chooses who to push, how do you make it a game without giving away who the winner is? For example, if there is an option in Universe mode that asks who you want to push in a slider type format, and you set Hunico's at max for a big push does he then beat everyone or at least win his match at the PPV?

                It will be very interesting to see how 2K envisions this aspect of the game. Casual fans might not like this if it means they can't win every match by spamming the same attack. This is where 2K can use cut scenes to their advantage. User spams moves like crazy but their win ruins the story line...introduce a cut scene that makes it impossible for them to win. That way if the user hits 6 super kicks and the CPU kicks out every time they won't feel cheated like an EA game would do. Instead, the game realizes it isn't looking good for the CPU and uses a cut scene.

                Sorry for the ramble but I had $0.02 to spare.
                I guess what frustrates me, along with many others, is that the ratings worked last year just fine. If I had a wrestler rated 1 OVR vs someone with even a 60 OVR, the match would be over in a matter of maybe a minute or two. No more. As it should if you have that low a rating.

                This year, I've had my 1 OVR go toe to toe with a 95 OVR and the match has gone anywhere from 5 mins to 15 mins. Plus, even at 1, they reverse like crazy...no difference in speed, etc.

                I feel they really dropped the ball this year on a main aspect of the game. But I also feel that the DURABILITY is a huge culprit. If they would have allowed for the DUR attribute to change, even if it went lower than 60, that would make up for a lot of the other attribute issues. Then the "santinos" wouldn't go 10 mins with the "Undertakers".

                I'm still trying to find some good CPU vs CPU sliders, so if anyone has any, let me know.

                Comment

                • cedwebb
                  MVP
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 1160

                  #143
                  Well I have been in the lab working on this game trying to get the best CPU v CPU matches possible. I can say that I believe I have found a very good set of sliders on this site and I have been re rating guys as well. That alone does not do the trick so I have been really testing out different ways to re rate and I think I found out a way to get great matches as I have not seen any bad and I am getting the desired results when it comes to certain matchups. I haven't seen any jobbers take out any superstars, in fact most of the time the match last less than 5 min.

                  To give specific examples, I just had Taker beat Santino in less than 5 min in both the test matches I watched. I did see Hunico go 7 min with HHH but he had not real shot at beating him. They were outside the ring for a little bit and Hunico did have a couple moments of offense but he never hurt HHH.

                  My theory on how to re rate guys to get good CPU matches is really all done with 5 of the attributes. Like I said I have been re rating using the site found in the ratings thread. That is the first step but even the guys are still too over rated. What I did after re rating makes the difference. So I have taken 5 attributes and changed them based on the weight class of the wrestler. This has been huge. For heavy weights I drop stp, grp, std, grd, and rcv by 20 points. For light heavy weights I drop those attributes by 25 points. For any class lower its 30 points. This has created a big gap between cruisers an heavyweights to the point that they can do no real damage unless they get a lot more shots in. This also has created a very nice pace to the match. Less reversals, more selling of the moves, and more visible match momentum.

                  Example for HHH: stp/grd (56) , std/grd (70), rcv (54). His overall is a 76.

                  Santino: stp (48) grp (39) std (47) grd (44) rcv (56). Overall is a 68.

                  Yes the lower guys are going to try to put on a good match but they won't be able to put a superstar down. Not that I have seen anyway. Remember to put the match momentum rate at slow before the matches. Makes a big difference. Let me know if this works for you guys that watch CPU matches. Thanks!
                  Last edited by cedwebb; 02-02-2013, 11:53 PM.

                  Comment

                  • cedwebb
                    MVP
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 1160

                    #144
                    Thought I would share the last match I watched with Primo vs Cena. This match was what you would expect to see on tv if you ask me. Cena stared out rocking him with some clothes lines and got off to a fast start. The Primo starts to make a little push and putting so e good moves on Cena. You can tell Cena is not really hurt and gets a couple moves in here and there but not a very good rhythm for him. Primo is getting in more moves at this point trying to put on a good show but Cena's moves when landing are too impactful. At 5:47 Cena decides its enough and puts him in the attitude adjustment and gets the 1..2...3! Looked easy for Cena although primo was putting a show on when he got his chances.

                    Comment

                    • Steven547
                      MVP
                      • May 2004
                      • 3797

                      #145
                      Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                      Originally posted by cedwebb
                      Well I have been in the lab working on this game trying to get the best CPU v CPU matches possible. I can say that I believe I have found a very good set of sliders on this site and I have been re rating guys as well. That alone does not do the trick so I have been really testing out different ways to re rate and I think I found out a way to get great matches as I have not seen any bad and I am getting the desired results when it comes to certain matchups. I haven't seen any jobbers take out any superstars, in fact most of the time the match last less than 5 min.

                      To give specific examples, I just had Taker beat Santino in less than 5 min in both the test matches I watched. I did see Hunico go 7 min with HHH but he had not real shot at beating him. They were outside the ring for a little bit and Hunico did have a couple moments of offense but he never hurt HHH.

                      My theory on how to re rate guys to get good CPU matches is really all done with 5 of the attributes. Like I said I have been re rating using the site found in the ratings thread. That is the first step but even the guys are still too over rated. What I did after re rating makes the difference. So I have taken 5 attributes and changed them based on the weight class of the wrestler. This has been huge. For heavy weights I drop stp, grp, std, grd, and rcv by 20 points. For light heavy weights I drop those attributes by 25 points. For any class lower its 30 points. This has created a big gap between cruisers an heavyweights to the point that they can do no real damage unless they get a lot more shots in. This also has created a very nice pace to the match. Less reversals, more selling of the moves, and more visible match momentum.

                      Example for HHH: stp/grd (56) , std/grd (70), rcv (54). His overall is a 76.

                      Santino: stp (48) grp (39) std (47) grd (44) rcv (56). Overall is a 68.

                      Yes the lower guys are going to try to put on a good match but they won't be able to put a superstar down. Not that I have seen anyway. Remember to put the match momentum rate at slow before the matches. Makes a big difference. Let me know if this works for you guys that watch CPU matches. Thanks!
                      Just like you, I'm trying to find some good CPU vs CPU settings / attributes. The one thing that throws up a flag for me, is that in your example, there isn't much separation between the wrestlers. Your example is only showing 8 pts difference for strike power. To me, that is not much at all, and if anything too little a difference.

                      And what sliders are you using? I've read in some places that putting the reversals at 0 helps promote the offensive attack, thereby, allowing the "better" wrestlers to win.

                      Thoughts?

                      Something else I thought of, with all the attribute issues this game has, I'm wondering if the issue with the Durability attribute is the same for the others. In other words, no matter how low below 60 you put the durability attribute, the HP stays at 500. This make me wonder if the other attributes are the same problem. Basically, the "value" of an attribute means nothing no matter how low below 60 it is. Which might explain why a 1 OVR wrestler seems to be a bit of a challenge and can go toe to toe with a 90 OVR.

                      What are some of your re-ratings? Triple H, Santino...
                      Last edited by Steven547; 02-03-2013, 11:04 AM.

                      Comment

                      • cedwebb
                        MVP
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 1160

                        #146
                        Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                        Originally posted by Steven547
                        Just like you, I'm trying to find some good CPU vs CPU settings / attributes. The one thing that throws up a flag for me, is that in your example, there isn't much separation between the wrestlers. Your example is only showing 8 pts difference for strike power. To me, that is not much at all, and if anything too little a difference.

                        And what sliders are you using? I've read in some places that putting the reversals at 0 helps promote the offensive attack, thereby, allowing the "better" wrestlers to win.

                        Thoughts?

                        Something else I thought of, with all the attribute issues this game has, I'm wondering if the issue with the Durability attribute is the same for the others. In other words, no matter how low below 60 you put the durability attribute, the HP stays at 500. This make me wonder if the other attributes are the same problem. Basically, the "value" of an attribute means nothing no matter how low below 60 it is. Which might explain why a 1 OVR wrestler seems to be a bit of a challenge and can go toe to toe with a 90 OVR.

                        What are some of your re-ratings? Triple H, Santino...
                        First I just want to explain my theory a little. I have basically taken the values of the 5 attributes down by levels based on the weight class of each wrestler. Basically Santino will not be able to do alot of damage to a HHH. The striking power is just one part of the equation. Look at HHH's strike defense, it is a 70 along with his grapple defense. Santino can try to strike HHH but with a 70 strike defense he wont be able to do any real damage as that attribute dictates how successful HHH will be in defending it. A 48 strike power is not going to be any kind of match for a 70 strike defense. Now HHH has a strike power 56 and grapple of 56. Santino has a strike defense of 47 and grapple of 44. He won't be able to hold of HHH's power with those low of numbers. That is the basis of the re rates by weight. I lowered HHH by 20 in those categories and Santino by 25 because he is a light heavyweight. A cruiser weight I would lower by 30 which would be a huge difference compared to HHH, even if their strike powers are with 10 points, the others wont be.

                        Take Primo for example, I have him rated at 35 strike and grapple power and 36 for both strike and grapple defense. He will have no chance against a HHH type.

                        Here are the sliders I am using that I believe I pulled from earlier in this thread. They are not mine but work great after the re rating.

                        A.I. Reversals
                        SSRR- 15
                        SGRR - 13
                        GSRR- 15
                        GGRR- 13
                        FRR- 20
                        FARR- 20

                        General
                        SSR- 5
                        SGR- 3
                        GSR- 5
                        GGR- 3
                        FR -10
                        FOR- 10
                        MRA- 6
                        MRT-6
                        AR- 6

                        Damage
                        FS- 8
                        FOS- 7

                        In game options
                        Difficulty - normal, all the options ON.

                        The 5 attributes that I lower base on weight class after a complete re rate from the link below are:
                        Strike power, Grapple Power, Strike defense, Grapple defense, and Recovery.
                        Heavyweights- 20 points taken off in addition to the re rate.
                        Light Heavyweights- 25 points
                        Cruiser-weights - 30 points.

                        * I always change the Momentum Bar Charge Speed to Slow*

                        Here is the link to the re ratings that I have been using. I have been copying exactly with the exception to the 5 attributes I have mentioned in which I lower to what this sheet says, then lower by the amount based on weight class.
                        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UtfaDBMTmtLNVE

                        Feel free to mess with anything and pass on your findings. Thanks!
                        Last edited by cedwebb; 02-03-2013, 12:20 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Steven547
                          MVP
                          • May 2004
                          • 3797

                          #147
                          Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                          Originally posted by cedwebb
                          First I just want to explain my theory a little. I have basically taken the values of the 5 attributes down by levels based on the weight class of each wrestler. Basically Santino will not be able to do alot of damage to a HHH. The striking power is just one part of the equation. Look at HHH's strike defense, it is a 70 along with his grapple defense. Santino can try to strike HHH but with a 70 strike defense he wont be able to do any real damage as that attribute dictates how successful HHH will be in defending it. A 48 strike power is not going to be any kind of match for a 70 strike defense. Now HHH has a strike power 56 and grapple of 56. Santino has a strike defense of 47 and grapple of 44. He won't be able to hold of HHH's power with those low of numbers. That is the basis of the re rates by weight. I lowered HHH by 20 in those categories and Santino by 25 because he is a light heavyweight. A cruiser weight I would lower by 30 which would be a huge difference compared to HHH, even if their strike powers are with 10 points, the others wont be.

                          Take Primo for example, I have him rated at 35 strike and grapple power and 36 for both strike and grapple defense. He will have no chance against a HHH type.

                          Here are the sliders I am using that I believe I pulled from earlier in this thread. They are not mine but work great after the re rating.

                          A.I. Reversals
                          SSRR- 15
                          SGRR - 13
                          GSRR- 15
                          GGRR- 13
                          FRR- 20
                          FARR- 20

                          General
                          SSR- 5
                          SGR- 3
                          GSR- 5
                          GGR- 3
                          FR -10
                          FOR- 10
                          MRA- 6
                          MRT-6
                          AR- 6

                          Damage
                          FS- 8
                          FOS- 7

                          In game options
                          Difficulty - normal, all the options ON.

                          The 5 attributes that I lower base on weight class after a complete re rate from the link below are:
                          Strike power, Grapple Power, Strike defense, Grapple defense, and Recovery.
                          Heavyweights- 20 points taken off in addition to the re rate.
                          Light Heavyweights- 25 points
                          Cruiser-weights - 30 points.

                          * I always change the Momentum Bar Charge Speed to Slow*

                          Here is the link to the re ratings that I have been using. I have been copying exactly with the exception to the 5 attributes I have mentioned in which I lower to what this sheet says, then lower by the amount based on weight class.
                          https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UtfaDBMTmtLNVE

                          Feel free to mess with anything and pass on your findings. Thanks!
                          Thanks for the reply. I'm understanding now. I'm going to test this out on two wrestlers. What are you doing for the limb damage? I've heard that with it all at 25%, you get more variety of moves.

                          I'm trying to find the correct limb damage combination that will cause a wrestler to "tire" or be pinned easier. I would then apply this to the jobbers. I might raise all head % up as well to reduce the quickness of bleeding.

                          UPDATE:
                          Based on what you were saying, I'm using Ryback and Zach Ryder as my guinea pigs. The first match went on and on. So at the 10 mins mark, I exited out. Plus, Ryder was constantly reversing everything Ryback threw at him. Also, Ryback looked very lethargic.

                          So, I had an idea. As a test, I raised Ryback's speed the highest it can go (85), and lowered Ryder's to 50. If I'm correct, the SPEED attribute has to do with how fast the wrestler can perform a move...it's not how fast the wrestler can move in the ring. I did notice a difference. Ryback connected on more moves and didn't stand around for too long. However, the reversal rate was still high for Z Ryder, even though his Strike / Grapple Def is low. Seemed like every other move, Zach was reversing.

                          I might lower Z Ryder's SPEED rating even more and see what happens, along with his DEF ratings.

                          And call it weird or coincidence, but Z Ryder appeared to get BETTER with each "rematch". After the match ends, I don't exit to the menu. I just select rematch.

                          First match:
                          Ryback dominated and won in under 5 mins.
                          Second match:
                          Match went about 7-8 mins and Ryback won.
                          Third match:
                          Match went close to 10 mins and ZACK RYDER won by using an OMG moment.

                          This has happened before as well, where you don't exit to the menu, but just select REMATCH.
                          Last edited by Steven547; 02-03-2013, 02:19 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Buckeyed
                            Rookie
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 433

                            #148
                            Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                            Originally posted by cedwebb
                            Well I have been in the lab working on this game trying to get the best CPU v CPU matches possible. I can say that I believe I have found a very good set of sliders on this site and I have been re rating guys as well. That alone does not do the trick so I have been really testing out different ways to re rate and I think I found out a way to get great matches as I have not seen any bad and I am getting the desired results when it comes to certain matchups. I haven't seen any jobbers take out any superstars, in fact most of the time the match last less than 5 min.

                            To give specific examples, I just had Taker beat Santino in less than 5 min in both the test matches I watched. I did see Hunico go 7 min with HHH but he had not real shot at beating him. They were outside the ring for a little bit and Hunico did have a couple moments of offense but he never hurt HHH.

                            My theory on how to re rate guys to get good CPU matches is really all done with 5 of the attributes. Like I said I have been re rating using the site found in the ratings thread. That is the first step but even the guys are still too over rated. What I did after re rating makes the difference. So I have taken 5 attributes and changed them based on the weight class of the wrestler. This has been huge. For heavy weights I drop stp, grp, std, grd, and rcv by 20 points. For light heavy weights I drop those attributes by 25 points. For any class lower its 30 points. This has created a big gap between cruisers an heavyweights to the point that they can do no real damage unless they get a lot more shots in. This also has created a very nice pace to the match. Less reversals, more selling of the moves, and more visible match momentum.

                            Example for HHH: stp/grd (56) , std/grd (70), rcv (54). His overall is a 76.

                            Santino: stp (48) grp (39) std (47) grd (44) rcv (56). Overall is a 68.

                            Yes the lower guys are going to try to put on a good match but they won't be able to put a superstar down. Not that I have seen anyway. Remember to put the match momentum rate at slow before the matches. Makes a big difference. Let me know if this works for you guys that watch CPU matches. Thanks!
                            What did you do for Super Heavy? Big Show still -20 points?

                            Comment

                            • cedwebb
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 1160

                              #149
                              Originally posted by Buckeyed
                              What did you do for Super Heavy? Big Show still -20 points?
                              Yeah I have been doing them at 20. I have actually thought about that but haven't tried it with one of them yet. Thinking about it, the strike defense and grapple defense numbers would be higher which would cause guys like the big slow to have a 5 point advantage and that would just make them better at reversals which might not be the desired result. I could see it being realistic as far as the strike and grapple power but making them better at reversals isn't really a common trait of a big man.
                              Last edited by cedwebb; 02-03-2013, 03:27 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Buckeyed
                                Rookie
                                • Feb 2012
                                • 433

                                #150
                                Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

                                Originally posted by cedwebb
                                Yeah I have been doing them at 20. I have actually thought about that but haven't tried it with one of them yet. Thinking about it, the strike defense and grapple defense numbers would be higher which would cause guys like the big slow to have a 5 point advantage and that would just make them better at reversals which might not be the desired result. I could see it being realistic as far as the strike and grapple power but making them better at reversals isn't really a common trait of a big man.
                                I am using some of your thoughts for my tests. I have Big Show with max str and grp power but low defense in both. And his speed is low. I will return with results.

                                Comment

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