WWE 13 Slider Thread

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

I am def liking the game play when reversals are set to 1. Gonna keep it there and keep testing while I re rate the roster.

You still putting all 4 reversals at 1?

[cedwebb]

You still putting all 4 reversals at 1?

Well I did that again tonight and to be honest I have not gotten great results from all 1's. I am gonna mess with them and see what happens. Gonna start by jacking them all the way up just to see what happens.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Well I did that again tonight and to be honest I have not gotten great results from all 1's. I am gonna mess with them and see what happens. Gonna start by jacking them all the way up just to see what happens.

I usually test about 5 matches with the same two wrestlers. Unfortunately, I think this game is just too messed up to find a good slider set up. If you come up with anything let me know.

UPDATE:

Been using your 1-1-1-1 for the reversals. Had three matches...
Ryback vs Santino: Ryback won both.
CM Punk vs Santino: Punk won by submission.

I'm definitely thinking about raising the speed for the "good" wrestlers. Why you ask? Because that gives them the advantage in hitting their move before the opponent. With reversals down to 1, there are reversals. But, it's a lot of who makes the first move. So by increasing the speed, I give the advantage to the higher wrestlers.

[cedwebb]

I usually test about 5 matches with the same two wrestlers. Unfortunately, I think this game is just too messed up to find a good slider set up. If you come up with anything let me know.

UPDATE:

Been using your 1-1-1-1 for the reversals. Had three matches...
Ryback vs Santino: Ryback won both.
CM Punk vs Santino: Punk won by submission.

I'm definitely thinking about raising the speed for the "good" wrestlers. Why you ask? Because that gives them the advantage in hitting their move before the opponent. With reversals down to 1, there are reversals. But, it's a lot of who makes the first move. So by increasing the speed, I give the advantage to the higher wrestlers.

Ok, I went back and re-read an great article that a game reviewer put out last year and he describes what attributes do what based on extensive testing. I believe that we are gonna have to re re rate the wrestlers but there are only a few attributes that actually will make any difference in gameplay at all when it comes to CPU v CPU. The rest only matter if we are actually controllinh someone. Strike power, grapple power, submission, durability, speed, agility, and charisma.

Now I had several matches last night between Bret hart and Antonio Cesaro Cesaro won almost all of them, like 4 of 5. I now know why. Durability is the key along with strike and grapple power for the most part. Cesaro was higher in all three based on the re rated roster I was using and those three will dictate our matches while watching CPU. Do some test of you get a chance. Set a lower wrestler up with high durability against a higher rated and lower his durability. My guess is you will see a guy like Santino beat a guy he shouldn't. Later I will be able run some test and re rate guys to see of this all comes together.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Ok, I went back and re-read an great article that a game reviewer put out last year and he describes what attributes do what based on extensive testing. I believe that we are gonna have to re re rate the wrestlers but there are only a few attributes that actually will make any difference in gameplay at all when it comes to CPU v CPU. The rest only matter if we are actually controllinh someone. Strike power, grapple power, submission, durability, speed, agility, and charisma.

Now I had several matches last night between Bret hart and Antonio Cesaro Cesaro won almost all of them, like 4 of 5. I now know why. Durability is the key along with strike and grapple power for the most part. Cesaro was higher in all three based on the re rated roster I was using and those three will dictate our matches while watching CPU. Do some test of you get a chance. Set a lower wrestler up with high durability against a higher rated and lower his durability. My guess is you will see a guy like Santino beat a guy he shouldn't. Later I will be able run some test and re rate guys to see of this all comes together.

Well, I'm going to stick with my theory on SPEED. I have raised that on the "main eventers", and so far, every match I have had, the "better" wrestler has beaten Santino.

Now, DURABILITY is a known issue with this game. That affects the wrestlers HP. Again, for the higher wrestlers, I've jacked this up. However, the DUR attribute does not change if it is below 60. The lowest HP a wrestler can get is 500, no matter how low you put the DUR. If this DUR worked as it should, I don't think we would be having so many issues trying to get this game to work right.

Now I've had time to "gather" my thoughts...let me explain my reasoning for SPEED.
Last year, I felt the attributes worked really well. 99% of the time, the lower rated wrestler would lose...even if you simmed the match. All the attributes worked well.

This year, not so much. Because the DUR attribute has no affect below 60, this means that all wrestlers will have HP of at least 500. The highest being 650. Only a 150pt difference which is not much. So, to give the higher rated wrestlers the advantage, I increased SPEED. The SPD rating in this game is not how fast they RUN or WALK, but how fast they deliver a move. Because the DUR doesn't work as it should, I increased the SPD of the main-event guys and lowered it for the jobbers. This means the higher rated guys will attack faster, thereby lowering the others HP faster. The lower rated wrestler with a low SPD rating, won't be able to attack fast.

To me, this helps balance out the issues with the attributes. It's not a 100% solution because I've still seen some odd wins. But in the past 5 matches, all the higher rated wrestlers beat the "Santinos". Because the game has great intentions, but poorly executed, you have to think outside the box and not worry too much about "realistic" ratings as much as realistic results. Make sense?

[cedwebb]

Well, I'm going to stick with my theory on SPEED. I have raised that on the "main eventers", and so far, every match I have had, the "better" wrestler has beaten Santino.

Now, DURABILITY is a known issue with this game. That affects the wrestlers HP. Again, for the higher wrestlers, I've jacked this up. However, the DUR attribute does not change if it is below 60. The lowest HP a wrestler can get is 500, no matter how low you put the DUR. If this DUR worked as it should, I don't think we would be having so many issues trying to get this game to work right.

Now I've had time to "gather" my thoughts...let me explain my reasoning for SPEED.
Last year, I felt the attributes worked really well. 99% of the time, the lower rated wrestler would lose...even if you simmed the match. All the attributes worked well.

This year, not so much. Because the DUR attribute has no affect below 60, this means that all wrestlers will have HP of at least 500. The highest being 650. Only a 150pt difference which is not much. So, to give the higher rated wrestlers the advantage, I increased SPEED. The SPD rating in this game is not how fast they RUN or WALK, but how fast they deliver a move. Because the DUR doesn't work as it should, I increased the SPD of the main-event guys and lowered it for the jobbers. This means the higher rated guys will attack faster, thereby lowering the others HP faster. The lower rated wrestler with a low SPD rating, won't be able to attack fast.

To me, this helps balance out the issues with the attributes. It's not a 100% solution because I've still seen some odd wins. But in the past 5 matches, all the higher rated wrestlers beat the "Santinos". Because the game has great intentions, but poorly executed, you have to think outside the box and not worry too much about "realistic" ratings as much as realistic results. Make sense?

Well I agree with the outside the box theory lol. It seem like the bigger disparity between goo and bad the better chance the bad is winning hmmm. I cannot get Bret hart to beat Antonio Cesaro for the life of me at this point. The further I lower Cesaro and higher hart the more impressive Cesaro becomes.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Well I agree with the outside the box theory lol. It seem like the bigger disparity between goo and bad the better chance the bad is winning hmmm. I cannot get Bret hart to beat Antonio Cesaro for the life of me at this point. The further I lower Cesaro and higher hart the more impressive Cesaro becomes.

What are your ratings for both guys?

[cedwebb]

What are your ratings for both guys?

My last match I raised hart to around 80 with attributes between 70 and mid 80s and I dropped Cesaro to a 60 taking some of his attributes to. He tapped hart out in about 5 min. Feel like the more I mess with things the worse it gets where when I first started watching matches I was getting great results with really great matches. Somewhere along the line I changed something that drastically changes what drives the results for this game.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

My last match I raised hart to around 80 with attributes between 70 and mid 80s and I dropped Cesaro to a 60 taking some of his attributes to. He tapped hart out in about 5 min. Feel like the more I mess with things the worse it gets where when I first started watching matches I was getting great results with really great matches. Somewhere along the line I changed something that drastically changes what drives the results for this game.

Yea, but give the exact ratings of each wrestler, and I'll run some sims myself with your ratings.

[cedwebb]

Yea, but give the exact ratings of each wrestler, and I'll run some sims myself with your ratings.

Bret Hart- 65, 68, 95, 90, 90, 67, 67, 67, 65, 73, 86, 77, 83,73

Antonio - 78, 88, 72, 71,71,67, 65, 59,71, 64, 81, 84, 69, 66

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Bret Hart- 65, 68, 95, 90, 90, 67, 67, 67, 65, 73, 86, 77, 83,73

Antonio - 78, 88, 72, 71,71,67, 65, 59,71, 64, 81, 84, 69, 66

Starting match 1 of 3. But on first look, I can see why Antonio would win. He has higher Strike, Grapple, Adrenaline, and DURABILITY. 3/4 of those are important. I don't think the DUR at 77 makes a difference if it was at 70 compared to 77. Any DUR in the 70's range will only give you 550 HP. Antonio's 84 DUR will give him 600 HP.

So not only does Antonio have higher Strike and Grapple, but he has a 50 pt advantage in HP. Plus, the SPEED is the same, so the advantage again, goes to Antonio.

We should probably move this to the Ratings thread because we seem to be moving more towards that area, and not sliders...?

I'll let you know what my results are...

Match 1: Brett Hart with the Sharpshooter.
Match 2: Antonio wins by submission.
Match 3: Antonio wins by pinfall.

My suggestion: Don't be afraid to "underrate" Antonio. I try and keep him and his "weight" class in the 50-60s for all attributes. I feel like this game you have to look at ALL attributes and not think that only 3-4 will make a difference. The heavy's should have higher STR and GRP ratings along with STR and GRP Def ratings. Recover should be higher for heavy's as well.

Unfortunately, that's one of the only ways I've found to get this game a tad closer to "sim".

Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

All of Antonio's attributes are in the 50's or mid 60's. Brett Hart's are back to his "default".

Brett Hart has won 4 straight matches. This is also with sliders for reversals at 1-1-1-1.

[cedwebb]

Starting match 1 of 3. But on first look, I can see why Antonio would win. He has higher Strike, Grapple, Adrenaline, and DURABILITY. 3/4 of those are important. I don't think the DUR at 77 makes a difference if it was at 70 compared to 77. Any DUR in the 70's range will only give you 550 HP. Antonio's 84 DUR will give him 600 HP.

So not only does Antonio have higher Strike and Grapple, but he has a 50 pt advantage in HP. Plus, the SPEED is the same, so the advantage again, goes to Antonio.

We should probably move this to the Ratings thread because we seem to be moving more towards that area, and not sliders...?

I'll let you know what my results are...

Match 1: Brett Hart with the Sharpshooter.
Match 2: Antonio wins by submission.
Match 3: Antonio wins by pinfall.

My suggestion: Don't be afraid to "underrate" Antonio. I try and keep him and his "weight" class in the 50-60s for all attributes. I feel like this game you have to look at ALL attributes and not think that only 3-4 will make a difference. The heavy's should have higher STR and GRP ratings along with STR and GRP Def ratings. Recover should be higher for heavy's as well.

Unfortunately, that's one of the only ways I've found to get this game a tad closer to "sim".

Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

All of Antonio's attributes are in the 50's or mid 60's. Brett Hart's are back to his "default".

Brett Hart has won 4 straight matches. This is also with sliders for reversals at 1-1-1-1.

Yeah I did realize Cesaro's attributes in the key 4 were as high or around where Bart's were. Thing that gets me and probably most is that hart is rated overall quite a bit higher. I think when re rating we would have to drop all the light heavy weight and cruisers along with any jobbers down by a certain number like I started to do. The. Maybe leave the superstars at the higher levels all g with slider changes. Obviously it is very important to not pay attention to the wrestlers overall and stay focused on individual attributes alone.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Yeah I did realize Cesaro's attributes in the key 4 were as high or around where Bart's were. Thing that gets me and probably most is that hart is rated overall quite a bit higher. I think when re rating we would have to drop all the light heavy weight and cruisers along with any jobbers down by a certain number like I started to do. The. Maybe leave the superstars at the higher levels all g with slider changes. Obviously it is very important to not pay attention to the wrestlers overall and stay focused on individual attributes alone.

Yea..you can't look at the OVRs. How those are calculated are a mystery. You can have a wrestler with 80's for all attributes, yet he'll be rated a 90 for OVR.

What I'm doing is raise the SPD attribute for all the "superstars" and lowering it for the mid carders and jobbers.

For the sliders, I'm using what you are, and so far the reversals are 1-1-1-1. Things are looking good so far...

[cedwebb]

Yea..you can't look at the OVRs. How those are calculated are a mystery. You can have a wrestler with 80's for all attributes, yet he'll be rated a 90 for OVR.

What I'm doing is raise the SPD attribute for all the "superstars" and lowering it for the mid carders and jobbers.

For the sliders, I'm using what you are, and so far the reversals are 1-1-1-1. Things are looking good so far...

Great, keep me posted! If you are raising jut speed or a couple different attributes let me know. I will get some testing done layer this evening trying to use the same philosophy.

[Steven547]

Re: WWE 13 Slider Thread

Great, keep me posted! If you are raising jut speed or a couple different attributes let me know. I will get some testing done layer this evening trying to use the same philosophy.

I've been having good results. Even wrestlers like Big Show are getting their SPD raised significantly. Yes, he has a high striker and grapple power, but the issue is him being able to connect with it. Plus, the separation in DUR between wrestlers is not big this year, so you have to "adjust" for it.

If we were able to give wrestlers HP below 500, the game would be more sim like. I would still be able to put Big Show with speed of 40 and not worry, because the Santinos would probably have HP (DUR) of 300 or less. Which means after a few hits, they are done.

However, because of this DUR issue, things have to be adjusted. In 10 matches I've had, the "better" wrestler has beaten the "Santino" type wrestler in all 10.