Re: WWE Network Discussion Thread
I guess my next question would be what are we measuring this on? Obviously, it's wrestling so things like this will always be subjective but I'm still in 2001 right now and from the time Austin came back to the buildup at WM, the crowd was still going CRAZY when you heard that glass shatter and went even crazier when he won the Rumble. I read a few articles(yes, I was researching this because Wrestling is serious business and it's still real to me, damnit)on reddit, the wrestling forum and most folks there were saying that it was pretty much like a contest between those two even after Austin came back from surgery.
Here's a few interviews I found regarding the second bolded part:
And this:
The Rock was definitely the biggest face of the company in 2001. I remember during the time and I just finished watching all of 2001. He was consistently out popping Austin. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Austin wasn't still over because he was. He was clearly the second biggest guy out there. It's just that time he missed allowed Rock to overtake him.
As for the timing of the turn of course it makes sense. They knew when Rock was coming back, he left after Mania, the *** whooping he took and the way he was written out allowed there to be heat built for his return to television to get revenge. In the meantime Austin would keep building his heel profile against the Undertakers, Kane's, Jericho and Benoits and it was clear they were building a split between he and Triple H to establish Austin as a sneaky backstabber but all that went out the window because of the injuries to H and Benoit and WCW bombing.
Edit: I also believe there's an interview with Austin where he talks about the heel turn and I think he mentions how big Rock had gotten as one of the reasons he wanted to go heel. I could be remembering that wrong, I'll try to find it when I get home later.
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As for the timing of the turn of course it makes sense. They knew when Rock was coming back, he left after Mania, the *** whooping he took and the way he was written out allowed there to be heat built for his return to television to get revenge. In the meantime Austin would keep building his heel profile against the Undertakers, Kane's, Jericho and Benoits and it was clear they were building a split between he and Triple H to establish Austin as a sneaky backstabber but all that went out the window because of the injuries to H and Benoit and WCW bombing.
Edit: I also believe there's an interview with Austin where he talks about the heel turn and I think he mentions how big Rock had gotten as one of the reasons he wanted to go heel. I could be remembering that wrong, I'll try to find it when I get home later.
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Here's a few interviews I found regarding the second bolded part:
Spoiler
Turning heel:
"Worst call I've ever made other than refusing to job to Brock Lesnar at Atlanta. But, you know, that was my idea. Vince always likes to do something big at Wrestlemania. He didn't have anything big planned. So, me being The Rocket scientist that I am, I figured okay. You're a hot babyface, and if you turn heel, you're a hot *** heel to draw money like that. Or vice versa. By and large that is true for the most part if the time is right to turn. Well clearly the time wasn't right for me to turn. It was like everybody loved John Wayne for what he stood for and so he did not ever have to be a bad guy in his movies. He never was. People didn't want to hate me. Me, because I always loved working heel more than a babyface. Thought it was going to be a chance for me to have fun, go back to working heel, doing what I loved to do and with that being said, I love working babyface too. Obviously it's where I made my money, but I like working heel. I like being a piece of trash. I like talking trash. I like cheating. That was my style of wrestling. Man, I did a lot of that as a Stone Cold babyface. So it was a bad idea, but Vince bought into it with me."
Working with the Rock:
"Man, you want that, Chris [having more than one mega-star in the company at once such as Austin and the Rock] because you know you want the person you're dancing with to be as over, more over, whatever, because you want the best dance partner you can have. The fact is, Rock and I had great chemistry. We loved working with each other. We were built for each other. I brought out the best in him. He brought out the best in me. So we had that, but on top of that, when you add the people that were loving me or hating him, or later loving me and loving him. From a Wrestlemania 17 standpoint, we were Houston based so he had a little bit of a heel dynamic. Just two over guys, hey, man. That's something that you pray for every single night, is to work with a guy that's over like hell."
"Worst call I've ever made other than refusing to job to Brock Lesnar at Atlanta. But, you know, that was my idea. Vince always likes to do something big at Wrestlemania. He didn't have anything big planned. So, me being The Rocket scientist that I am, I figured okay. You're a hot babyface, and if you turn heel, you're a hot *** heel to draw money like that. Or vice versa. By and large that is true for the most part if the time is right to turn. Well clearly the time wasn't right for me to turn. It was like everybody loved John Wayne for what he stood for and so he did not ever have to be a bad guy in his movies. He never was. People didn't want to hate me. Me, because I always loved working heel more than a babyface. Thought it was going to be a chance for me to have fun, go back to working heel, doing what I loved to do and with that being said, I love working babyface too. Obviously it's where I made my money, but I like working heel. I like being a piece of trash. I like talking trash. I like cheating. That was my style of wrestling. Man, I did a lot of that as a Stone Cold babyface. So it was a bad idea, but Vince bought into it with me."
Working with the Rock:
"Man, you want that, Chris [having more than one mega-star in the company at once such as Austin and the Rock] because you know you want the person you're dancing with to be as over, more over, whatever, because you want the best dance partner you can have. The fact is, Rock and I had great chemistry. We loved working with each other. We were built for each other. I brought out the best in him. He brought out the best in me. So we had that, but on top of that, when you add the people that were loving me or hating him, or later loving me and loving him. From a Wrestlemania 17 standpoint, we were Houston based so he had a little bit of a heel dynamic. Just two over guys, hey, man. That's something that you pray for every single night, is to work with a guy that's over like hell."
There are dozens if not hundreds of alternate versions of Spider-Man out there, and more than a few of them are worth taking note of, whether it's because they're secretly really good, or just really, really weird.
And this:
Ring Rust Radio: One of the greatest matches of your career in my opinion was your bout with The Rock at WrestleMania 17, which is well known for your heel turn during the aftermath. We recently had Jim Ross on the show and he said you almost went the other way with it by taking out Vince instead, and you’ve said it’s something you considered doing as well. Why did you ultimately decide against it, and how do you think it would’ve went over with Vince if you would’ve called an audible?
Steve Austin: Well first of all, it was my idea to turn heel. If I could do it over again I would of shook Vince’s hand and told him, “I’m calling an audible, watch the stunner,” and that’s what I would’ve done. Some people say they were glad I turned heel because I got to show different levels and ranges and all that other stuff. Yes, I did but the money was in Stone Cold Steve Austin being a baby face. At that point, people didn’t want to hate me, and I tried like hell to get them to hate me. I did the best I could, but then again it didn’t matter if I had opponents are not, it just wasn’t the right call and it was my idea. Vince would have totally gone along with anything I called because he always told me I had the best game day gut instincts of anyone he ever knew. I felt it, but once I committed man that’s where I wanted to go. Hindsight being 20/20 had I called that audible, he would’ve been fine with it.
Steve Austin: Well first of all, it was my idea to turn heel. If I could do it over again I would of shook Vince’s hand and told him, “I’m calling an audible, watch the stunner,” and that’s what I would’ve done. Some people say they were glad I turned heel because I got to show different levels and ranges and all that other stuff. Yes, I did but the money was in Stone Cold Steve Austin being a baby face. At that point, people didn’t want to hate me, and I tried like hell to get them to hate me. I did the best I could, but then again it didn’t matter if I had opponents are not, it just wasn’t the right call and it was my idea. Vince would have totally gone along with anything I called because he always told me I had the best game day gut instincts of anyone he ever knew. I felt it, but once I committed man that’s where I wanted to go. Hindsight being 20/20 had I called that audible, he would’ve been fine with it.
Ring Rust Radio had WWE Hall of Famer Stone Cold Steve Austin on the show this week, and it was a great episode with plenty of exclusive content.
On his heel turn in 2001:
“I felt as a babyface I began to flatline a little bit. I needed to reinvent myself to a degree. I was a little bit burned out, I think, because I was run real hard, partying a lot. I still loved the business, was working my *** off, we [were] selling out. Rock was hot and that was very important to me because I needed that match. When I said in that promo, ‘I need that belt, Rock. I need it more than anything you could ever imagine’, that was a shoot statement. I meant it. And that program kind of reenergized the ‘Stone Cold’ character.”
On wishing he could have called an audible:
“Had I called an audible, told Vince, ‘I’m staying baby – here’s a Stunner’, I wish I would have because I think that would just have launched us all the way back until 2003, when I had my last match with The Rock at [WrestleMania 19] in fine fashion, rather than turning heel, and struggling so much, trying to swim upstream, so to speak, working as a heel because people didn’t want to see me work as a heel.”
“I felt as a babyface I began to flatline a little bit. I needed to reinvent myself to a degree. I was a little bit burned out, I think, because I was run real hard, partying a lot. I still loved the business, was working my *** off, we [were] selling out. Rock was hot and that was very important to me because I needed that match. When I said in that promo, ‘I need that belt, Rock. I need it more than anything you could ever imagine’, that was a shoot statement. I meant it. And that program kind of reenergized the ‘Stone Cold’ character.”
On wishing he could have called an audible:
“Had I called an audible, told Vince, ‘I’m staying baby – here’s a Stunner’, I wish I would have because I think that would just have launched us all the way back until 2003, when I had my last match with The Rock at [WrestleMania 19] in fine fashion, rather than turning heel, and struggling so much, trying to swim upstream, so to speak, working as a heel because people didn’t want to see me work as a heel.”
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