My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

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  • WTF
    MVP
    • Aug 2002
    • 20274

    #1

    My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

    Okay, some of you know me, some of you don't. For those of you who don't, I will give a little bit of breif background info. I have been watching wrestling for 15+ years, minus the past 2 years because it has became nothing but filth and trash. There is more "stories" if you can call them that, than there is actual wrestling nowadays, so needless to say, I long for the days of old.

    I have played almost every wrestling game that has came out for the past 10 years or so, with the exception of the Fire Pro series, and the imports because I can never get my hands on them for a reasonable price. I am the type of guy who likes for a game to represent the actual sport moreso than just going for eye candy, which is why my favorite baseball game is ASB and ID for basketball. Just because I feel that it captures the whole authenticity aspect.

    Every since the first LOW games first started showing up, I loved the concept. Just being able to wrestle with the old school grapplers, and childhood heroes, on a next generation console is just my ideal game. With that being said, the first two renditions of this title, failed miserably to the public, but I feel that they still had a lot going for them. The gameplay, although a little bit slower, and more boring to some, really captured the overall feel of oldschool wrestling. Back in the days, wrestling was more about "Big" guys doing "Big" moves. Guys who couldn't run the 1/4 mile in 3 minutes. So having the LOW series play like Smackdown, and constant action just wouldn't really suit the game. I think Acclaim, although needed to work out a lot of kinks, and work on the fluidness of the animations, had a potentially great game.

    Now that the third version of the game has released, Showdown: Legends of Wrestling, people have been making comparisons that really should never be made. So far, I am almost 35 matches into the game, and I have been having a ball with the game. The game is not bug free, and is nowhere near flawless, but it still plays a very good game of "Old School Wrestling". Granted, there are some problems with the movesets of the wrestlers. But think about this, there are basically 8 moves for the front grapple, and 8 for the back grapple. If you didn't fill the movesets with moves that Hulk Hogan could have done, you would basically be left seeing Hogan do hip toss and power slam, after hip toss and powerslam. They should have chosen a couple different fillers for the movesets, but to me, it doesn't take away from the gameplay.

    The AI in this game is not as bad as everyone is making the game out to be. If you put the game on Legend, and turn off the Health meters, then chances are, you will probably get an old school [censored] whippin from Abdullah the Butcher and the likes. This also speeds up the gameplay a little, which will please some of the gamers out there. The health meters have really hurt games like Smackdown, and Raw. If you turn them off, you actually have to wrestle your way to victory, rather then punch and stomp until you see the power bar is depleted, and then do your finisher. If you turn them off, then it will change your gameplay experience.

    The graphics of this game are as good if not better then those of Smackdown's. I don't think they are up to Raw's graphics, but take a look around the arena's you are in, those are amazing in detail. Acclaim has done an excellent job of getting the liscenses to use these classic arena's so we can relive some classic matches.

    However, this game is not without fault. Some of the promises made by Justin Withers were not delivered in the final version of the game. Things such as Custom Soundtracks which should be in every XBOX wrestling game were left out. Although he never said Custom Entrance music was in, he said, music ripping is still in, which in a sense, it is. There are a couple of things that I can't really deal with though. The edit a Legend is non existant which is horrible. If you have a dedicated staff to working on the game, there should be no reason not to include this for the XBOX version.

    Another thing is the CAL or Create a Legend. Last years mode wasn't horrible as you could take a pair of pants or shirt, and modify the color and make a pretty good version of any current star or legend who was left out for whatever reason. If the Create a Legend was implemented right, this would take care of it. But I can't take Hulk Hogan and change his skin color, because it will just add a layer of skin over his existing clothes, and change his face as well. That is unexcusable. You can't even make hair black. The closest thing you can do is Dennis Rodman style and make is Blue. Sure, Acclaim has signed most of the wrestlers I could hope for in this game, but in this day and age, a game shouldn't be released without a decent create a wrestler. I am not giving up on the CAL, but it definately isn't even up to par with that of WWE Raw 2.

    So basically, this is my informal review of the game. Take this for what you want. This game is not perfect, but for old school wrestling, this isn't that bad of a game. Acclaim, I commend you on your efforts, but I also wish you would be straight forward in conducting your Q&A sessions, and try and work on the things that really need it. Hopefully LOW:4 will be a old school fan's dream.
    Twitter - WTF_OS
    #DropMeAFollow
  • koolbubbaice
    MVP
    • May 2004
    • 2236

    #2
    Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

    I won't be so forgiving.. How could Acclaim release such a bug/glitch filled game like this.. I keep telling myself this is not the beta version.. I been watching wrestling since 83.. I loved TNT, Tuesday Night Titians on the USA channel for all you older fans..TBS wrestling before it was called WCW..wendsdays I was glued to the tube for 3 hrs.. USA would show some great matches.. Monsoon & the brain were the host.. This was 8 yrs before RAW, & 8 yrs before wrestling turned into a Jerry Springer show..I used to love the 'sport'.. I grew up watching most of the 73 wrestlers in the game.. The conecpt is great, but Acclaim drops the ball too many times.. The 'fixed' controls? Clunky & non responsive as ever.. Dumbest AI this side of Raw2.. It's funny how my opponent never hits me with an object when I'm helpess on the ground.. He waits till I get up so I can block his attacks..Ugh.. I love seeing myself teleport to another corner when performing certain moves.. The collision detection is the worst I ever seen..If you create a very tall wrestler & face a much shorter wrestler, you'll see what I'm talking about.. The game can't compensate for the size difference so your CAW pretends your smaller opponent is much taller & grabs about 1 inch of air when picking up & slaming the smaller wreslter.. Even on the default setting the AI should at least be decent.. If you can ignore the many flaws you will enjoy the game for the nostalga (spelling) Graphics are great, especially in 480p.. Check out the back muscles on the Warrior.. Very detailed & clean.. Some of the wrestlers taunts & finishers are very authentic, near perfect at times.. I can't believe Acclaim got the Savage walk down pat.. Very impressive..
    Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

    Audio set up:
    Benchmark DAC1
    headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

    Comment

    • koolbubbaice
      MVP
      • May 2004
      • 2236

      #3
      Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

      I won't be so forgiving.. How could Acclaim release such a bug/glitch filled game like this.. I keep telling myself this is not the beta version.. I been watching wrestling since 83.. I loved TNT, Tuesday Night Titians on the USA channel for all you older fans..TBS wrestling before it was called WCW..wendsdays I was glued to the tube for 3 hrs.. USA would show some great matches.. Monsoon & the brain were the host.. This was 8 yrs before RAW, & 8 yrs before wrestling turned into a Jerry Springer show..I used to love the 'sport'.. I grew up watching most of the 73 wrestlers in the game.. The conecpt is great, but Acclaim drops the ball too many times.. The 'fixed' controls? Clunky & non responsive as ever.. Dumbest AI this side of Raw2.. It's funny how my opponent never hits me with an object when I'm helpess on the ground.. He waits till I get up so I can block his attacks..Ugh.. I love seeing myself teleport to another corner when performing certain moves.. The collision detection is the worst I ever seen..If you create a very tall wrestler & face a much shorter wrestler, you'll see what I'm talking about.. The game can't compensate for the size difference so your CAW pretends your smaller opponent is much taller & grabs about 1 inch of air when picking up & slaming the smaller wreslter.. Even on the default setting the AI should at least be decent.. If you can ignore the many flaws you will enjoy the game for the nostalga (spelling) Graphics are great, especially in 480p.. Check out the back muscles on the Warrior.. Very detailed & clean.. Some of the wrestlers taunts & finishers are very authentic, near perfect at times.. I can't believe Acclaim got the Savage walk down pat.. Very impressive..
      Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

      Audio set up:
      Benchmark DAC1
      headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

      Comment

      • koolbubbaice
        MVP
        • May 2004
        • 2236

        #4
        Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

        I won't be so forgiving.. How could Acclaim release such a bug/glitch filled game like this.. I keep telling myself this is not the beta version.. I been watching wrestling since 83.. I loved TNT, Tuesday Night Titians on the USA channel for all you older fans..TBS wrestling before it was called WCW..wendsdays I was glued to the tube for 3 hrs.. USA would show some great matches.. Monsoon & the brain were the host.. This was 8 yrs before RAW, & 8 yrs before wrestling turned into a Jerry Springer show..I used to love the 'sport'.. I grew up watching most of the 73 wrestlers in the game.. The conecpt is great, but Acclaim drops the ball too many times.. The 'fixed' controls? Clunky & non responsive as ever.. Dumbest AI this side of Raw2.. It's funny how my opponent never hits me with an object when I'm helpess on the ground.. He waits till I get up so I can block his attacks..Ugh.. I love seeing myself teleport to another corner when performing certain moves.. The collision detection is the worst I ever seen..If you create a very tall wrestler & face a much shorter wrestler, you'll see what I'm talking about.. The game can't compensate for the size difference so your CAW pretends your smaller opponent is much taller & grabs about 1 inch of air when picking up & slaming the smaller wreslter.. Even on the default setting the AI should at least be decent.. If you can ignore the many flaws you will enjoy the game for the nostalga (spelling) Graphics are great, especially in 480p.. Check out the back muscles on the Warrior.. Very detailed & clean.. Some of the wrestlers taunts & finishers are very authentic, near perfect at times.. I can't believe Acclaim got the Savage walk down pat.. Very impressive..
        Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

        Audio set up:
        Benchmark DAC1
        headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

        Comment

        • sven
          Banned
          • Jul 2002
          • 6021

          #5
          Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

          I'm somewhere in between you two :P

          Comment

          • sven
            Banned
            • Jul 2002
            • 6021

            #6
            Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

            I'm somewhere in between you two :P

            Comment

            • sven
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 6021

              #7
              Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

              I'm somewhere in between you two :P

              Comment

              • RaiderXWW
                Rookie
                • Feb 2004
                • 17

                #8
                Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                You have a semi point with the moveset issue, while they neded moves to fill the spots there are better choices then what they used, Snuka with tyhe Acid drop? Billy Graham with a Rock Bottom? Savage with a head and Arm suplex?
                I've been watching wrestling for 20 years I promote shows and know a few of the wrestlers on this game and don't think that a few aren't upset by the way they look. You want a moveset for Hogan? W
                Weak Strike Right Punch
                Med. Strike: Chop
                Strong Strike Overhead Punch
                Front Attack 1 Scoop Slam
                Front Attack 2 Bear Hug
                Front Attack 3 Eye Rake
                Front Attack 4 Suplex
                Behind Attack 1 Ab Stretch
                Behind Attack 2 Atomic Drop
                Behind Attack 3 Elbow to back of Head
                Behind Attack 4 Full Nelson
                B/O Attack 1 Headlock and Punch
                B/O Attack 2 Piledriver
                B/O Attack 3 Body Vice
                B/O Attack 4 Small Package
                B/O Attack 5 Face Crusher (throws person face first into ground)
                B/O Behind Attack 1 Back Rake
                B/O Behind Attack 2 Club to Back
                B/O Behind Attack 3 Back Breaker
                B/O Behind Attack 4 Trunk Piledriver
                B/O Behind Attack 5 Elbow to back of Head
                At head on Ground Attack 1 Punches to head
                At head on Ground Attack 2 Headlock
                At head on Ground Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                At feet on Ground Attack 1 Knee Smash
                At feet on Ground Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                At feet on Ground Attack 3 Knee Smash
                Corner Attack 1 Superplex
                Corner Attack 2 10 Punches
                Opp Running Attack 1 Powerslam
                Opp Running Attack 2Big Boot
                Opp Running Atttack 3 Backdrop
                Running Front Attack 1: Hard Clothesline
                Running Front Attack 2: Sholderblock
                Running Front Attack 3: Polish Hammer
                Running Ground Atttack 1 Elbow Drop
                Running Ground Attack 2 Knee Drop
                Running Ground Attack 3 Front Elbow Drop
                Running Corner Attack 1 Clothesline
                Running Corner attack 2 Shoulder Charge
                Running Corner attack 3 Forearm (Ax Bomber)
                Turnbuckle Attack 1 Ax Handle
                Turnbuckle Attack 2 Ax Handle
                Turnbuckle Attack 3 Ax Handle
                Turnbuckle Ground Attack 1 NONE
                Turnbuckle Ground Attack 2 NONE
                Turnbuckle Ground Attack 3 NONE
                Pescodo Attack NONE
                Sprimgboard Attack NONE
                Apron Floor Attack NONE
                Springboard ground attack NONE
                apron floor ground attack NONE
                Inside Apron attack Suplex into Ring
                Outside Apron Attack Jaw Breaker Out
                Tieup 1 Standing Headlock
                Tie Up 2 Shove Off
                Tie Up 3 Drop Suplex
                Tie Up 4 Slam To Back
                Tie Up 5 Arm Wringer and Punch
                Tie Up 6 Press Slam
                Tie Up 7 Power Punch
                Tie Up 8 Clothesline
                Behind Tie up 1 Sleeper Hold
                behind Tie up 2 High Angle Back Drop
                Behind Tie up 3 Russian Leg Sweep
                Behind Tie up 4 Stalling Atomic Drop
                Behind Tie Up 5 Sidewalk Slam
                Behind Tie Up 6 Belly to Back Suplex
                Behind Tie Up 7 Schhol Boy
                Behind Tie Up 8 Back Clothesline
                Chin Lock Attack 1 Chicken Scratch
                Chin Lock Attack 2 Rear Chinlock
                Chin Lock Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                Holding Legs Attack 1 Figure Four
                Holding Legs Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                Holding Legs Attack 3 Kick To Groin
                Primary Finisher Hulk Up
                Secondary Finisher Ax Bomber (Running Forearm)

                Yes somethings are repeated and some aren't even animated but thats not the point. The Point is You don't have to have Emerald Fusions and Unprettiers in peoples movesets to make them entertaining. By varyin the movesets for each wrestlers you add to the replay Value, if I'm Hogan I'm going to be a power wrestler who does alot of brawling, if I'm Bret Hart I want to go after a guy with techinical skill, blening move afetr mover together, if I'm Brian Pillman I want to fly, move fast and try to hit that hi impact move that will win the match.
                People try and compare wrestling games to fighting games and while they are diffrent ask yourself this.. does every fighter I choice in Mortal Kombat have the same moves? No they don't just have one or two special moves either they have a number of diffrent "signature" moves that helps to make each one unquie.
                I understand that you may have to put moves in that the wrestlers didn't do all the time but "could have" Superstar Billy Graham would have done a numerous amount of things in the ring before he'd use a Rock Bottom.
                Also back in the day and to an extent now, peoples finisher were protected, they weren't used as regular moves in a match, so while Steamboat may have been able to pull off al Fisherman (or PefectPlex) Supex he wouldn't have done it nor would he have do the variation Fisherman buster. Look back at when Rude and HTM were using diffrent variations of the Neckbreaker in the WWF, while its a basic move it was never used in a match by someone else.
                It took me two hours with pen and paper and a few Hogan Matches, mostly off the Hogan Rules DVD and a few Japan tapes, to compile a moveset that would be true to Hogan and still be fun. If Acclaim continues to make these games they should invest sometime into watching the tapes, hire some wrestlers to come in and take some bumps so they can reanimate some moves, Greg Valentine, The Rock N Roll Express, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Sanatana, Tony ATlas, The Nasty Boys, Rick Steiner, Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr. are all active in some way shape or form on indy shows all over the place, bring them in for a week and let them do some moves that you can capture, bring in some younger indy guys to help you get the newer moves if you want them in for CAL, UPW is in San Fran you guys are in Austin Texas not that far of a drive and I'm sure you could get their help.
                I'll stop rambling now, but I hope this proves a little bit of what I'm trying say, it wasn't because Acclaim had to make the movesets so off, it was because they were to lazy to try.

                Comment

                • RaiderXWW
                  Rookie
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 17

                  #9
                  Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                  You have a semi point with the moveset issue, while they neded moves to fill the spots there are better choices then what they used, Snuka with tyhe Acid drop? Billy Graham with a Rock Bottom? Savage with a head and Arm suplex?
                  I've been watching wrestling for 20 years I promote shows and know a few of the wrestlers on this game and don't think that a few aren't upset by the way they look. You want a moveset for Hogan? W
                  Weak Strike Right Punch
                  Med. Strike: Chop
                  Strong Strike Overhead Punch
                  Front Attack 1 Scoop Slam
                  Front Attack 2 Bear Hug
                  Front Attack 3 Eye Rake
                  Front Attack 4 Suplex
                  Behind Attack 1 Ab Stretch
                  Behind Attack 2 Atomic Drop
                  Behind Attack 3 Elbow to back of Head
                  Behind Attack 4 Full Nelson
                  B/O Attack 1 Headlock and Punch
                  B/O Attack 2 Piledriver
                  B/O Attack 3 Body Vice
                  B/O Attack 4 Small Package
                  B/O Attack 5 Face Crusher (throws person face first into ground)
                  B/O Behind Attack 1 Back Rake
                  B/O Behind Attack 2 Club to Back
                  B/O Behind Attack 3 Back Breaker
                  B/O Behind Attack 4 Trunk Piledriver
                  B/O Behind Attack 5 Elbow to back of Head
                  At head on Ground Attack 1 Punches to head
                  At head on Ground Attack 2 Headlock
                  At head on Ground Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                  At feet on Ground Attack 1 Knee Smash
                  At feet on Ground Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                  At feet on Ground Attack 3 Knee Smash
                  Corner Attack 1 Superplex
                  Corner Attack 2 10 Punches
                  Opp Running Attack 1 Powerslam
                  Opp Running Attack 2Big Boot
                  Opp Running Atttack 3 Backdrop
                  Running Front Attack 1: Hard Clothesline
                  Running Front Attack 2: Sholderblock
                  Running Front Attack 3: Polish Hammer
                  Running Ground Atttack 1 Elbow Drop
                  Running Ground Attack 2 Knee Drop
                  Running Ground Attack 3 Front Elbow Drop
                  Running Corner Attack 1 Clothesline
                  Running Corner attack 2 Shoulder Charge
                  Running Corner attack 3 Forearm (Ax Bomber)
                  Turnbuckle Attack 1 Ax Handle
                  Turnbuckle Attack 2 Ax Handle
                  Turnbuckle Attack 3 Ax Handle
                  Turnbuckle Ground Attack 1 NONE
                  Turnbuckle Ground Attack 2 NONE
                  Turnbuckle Ground Attack 3 NONE
                  Pescodo Attack NONE
                  Sprimgboard Attack NONE
                  Apron Floor Attack NONE
                  Springboard ground attack NONE
                  apron floor ground attack NONE
                  Inside Apron attack Suplex into Ring
                  Outside Apron Attack Jaw Breaker Out
                  Tieup 1 Standing Headlock
                  Tie Up 2 Shove Off
                  Tie Up 3 Drop Suplex
                  Tie Up 4 Slam To Back
                  Tie Up 5 Arm Wringer and Punch
                  Tie Up 6 Press Slam
                  Tie Up 7 Power Punch
                  Tie Up 8 Clothesline
                  Behind Tie up 1 Sleeper Hold
                  behind Tie up 2 High Angle Back Drop
                  Behind Tie up 3 Russian Leg Sweep
                  Behind Tie up 4 Stalling Atomic Drop
                  Behind Tie Up 5 Sidewalk Slam
                  Behind Tie Up 6 Belly to Back Suplex
                  Behind Tie Up 7 Schhol Boy
                  Behind Tie Up 8 Back Clothesline
                  Chin Lock Attack 1 Chicken Scratch
                  Chin Lock Attack 2 Rear Chinlock
                  Chin Lock Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                  Holding Legs Attack 1 Figure Four
                  Holding Legs Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                  Holding Legs Attack 3 Kick To Groin
                  Primary Finisher Hulk Up
                  Secondary Finisher Ax Bomber (Running Forearm)

                  Yes somethings are repeated and some aren't even animated but thats not the point. The Point is You don't have to have Emerald Fusions and Unprettiers in peoples movesets to make them entertaining. By varyin the movesets for each wrestlers you add to the replay Value, if I'm Hogan I'm going to be a power wrestler who does alot of brawling, if I'm Bret Hart I want to go after a guy with techinical skill, blening move afetr mover together, if I'm Brian Pillman I want to fly, move fast and try to hit that hi impact move that will win the match.
                  People try and compare wrestling games to fighting games and while they are diffrent ask yourself this.. does every fighter I choice in Mortal Kombat have the same moves? No they don't just have one or two special moves either they have a number of diffrent "signature" moves that helps to make each one unquie.
                  I understand that you may have to put moves in that the wrestlers didn't do all the time but "could have" Superstar Billy Graham would have done a numerous amount of things in the ring before he'd use a Rock Bottom.
                  Also back in the day and to an extent now, peoples finisher were protected, they weren't used as regular moves in a match, so while Steamboat may have been able to pull off al Fisherman (or PefectPlex) Supex he wouldn't have done it nor would he have do the variation Fisherman buster. Look back at when Rude and HTM were using diffrent variations of the Neckbreaker in the WWF, while its a basic move it was never used in a match by someone else.
                  It took me two hours with pen and paper and a few Hogan Matches, mostly off the Hogan Rules DVD and a few Japan tapes, to compile a moveset that would be true to Hogan and still be fun. If Acclaim continues to make these games they should invest sometime into watching the tapes, hire some wrestlers to come in and take some bumps so they can reanimate some moves, Greg Valentine, The Rock N Roll Express, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Sanatana, Tony ATlas, The Nasty Boys, Rick Steiner, Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr. are all active in some way shape or form on indy shows all over the place, bring them in for a week and let them do some moves that you can capture, bring in some younger indy guys to help you get the newer moves if you want them in for CAL, UPW is in San Fran you guys are in Austin Texas not that far of a drive and I'm sure you could get their help.
                  I'll stop rambling now, but I hope this proves a little bit of what I'm trying say, it wasn't because Acclaim had to make the movesets so off, it was because they were to lazy to try.

                  Comment

                  • RaiderXWW
                    Rookie
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 17

                    #10
                    Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                    You have a semi point with the moveset issue, while they neded moves to fill the spots there are better choices then what they used, Snuka with tyhe Acid drop? Billy Graham with a Rock Bottom? Savage with a head and Arm suplex?
                    I've been watching wrestling for 20 years I promote shows and know a few of the wrestlers on this game and don't think that a few aren't upset by the way they look. You want a moveset for Hogan? W
                    Weak Strike Right Punch
                    Med. Strike: Chop
                    Strong Strike Overhead Punch
                    Front Attack 1 Scoop Slam
                    Front Attack 2 Bear Hug
                    Front Attack 3 Eye Rake
                    Front Attack 4 Suplex
                    Behind Attack 1 Ab Stretch
                    Behind Attack 2 Atomic Drop
                    Behind Attack 3 Elbow to back of Head
                    Behind Attack 4 Full Nelson
                    B/O Attack 1 Headlock and Punch
                    B/O Attack 2 Piledriver
                    B/O Attack 3 Body Vice
                    B/O Attack 4 Small Package
                    B/O Attack 5 Face Crusher (throws person face first into ground)
                    B/O Behind Attack 1 Back Rake
                    B/O Behind Attack 2 Club to Back
                    B/O Behind Attack 3 Back Breaker
                    B/O Behind Attack 4 Trunk Piledriver
                    B/O Behind Attack 5 Elbow to back of Head
                    At head on Ground Attack 1 Punches to head
                    At head on Ground Attack 2 Headlock
                    At head on Ground Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                    At feet on Ground Attack 1 Knee Smash
                    At feet on Ground Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                    At feet on Ground Attack 3 Knee Smash
                    Corner Attack 1 Superplex
                    Corner Attack 2 10 Punches
                    Opp Running Attack 1 Powerslam
                    Opp Running Attack 2Big Boot
                    Opp Running Atttack 3 Backdrop
                    Running Front Attack 1: Hard Clothesline
                    Running Front Attack 2: Sholderblock
                    Running Front Attack 3: Polish Hammer
                    Running Ground Atttack 1 Elbow Drop
                    Running Ground Attack 2 Knee Drop
                    Running Ground Attack 3 Front Elbow Drop
                    Running Corner Attack 1 Clothesline
                    Running Corner attack 2 Shoulder Charge
                    Running Corner attack 3 Forearm (Ax Bomber)
                    Turnbuckle Attack 1 Ax Handle
                    Turnbuckle Attack 2 Ax Handle
                    Turnbuckle Attack 3 Ax Handle
                    Turnbuckle Ground Attack 1 NONE
                    Turnbuckle Ground Attack 2 NONE
                    Turnbuckle Ground Attack 3 NONE
                    Pescodo Attack NONE
                    Sprimgboard Attack NONE
                    Apron Floor Attack NONE
                    Springboard ground attack NONE
                    apron floor ground attack NONE
                    Inside Apron attack Suplex into Ring
                    Outside Apron Attack Jaw Breaker Out
                    Tieup 1 Standing Headlock
                    Tie Up 2 Shove Off
                    Tie Up 3 Drop Suplex
                    Tie Up 4 Slam To Back
                    Tie Up 5 Arm Wringer and Punch
                    Tie Up 6 Press Slam
                    Tie Up 7 Power Punch
                    Tie Up 8 Clothesline
                    Behind Tie up 1 Sleeper Hold
                    behind Tie up 2 High Angle Back Drop
                    Behind Tie up 3 Russian Leg Sweep
                    Behind Tie up 4 Stalling Atomic Drop
                    Behind Tie Up 5 Sidewalk Slam
                    Behind Tie Up 6 Belly to Back Suplex
                    Behind Tie Up 7 Schhol Boy
                    Behind Tie Up 8 Back Clothesline
                    Chin Lock Attack 1 Chicken Scratch
                    Chin Lock Attack 2 Rear Chinlock
                    Chin Lock Attack 3 Blatant Choke
                    Holding Legs Attack 1 Figure Four
                    Holding Legs Attack 2 Single Leg Crab
                    Holding Legs Attack 3 Kick To Groin
                    Primary Finisher Hulk Up
                    Secondary Finisher Ax Bomber (Running Forearm)

                    Yes somethings are repeated and some aren't even animated but thats not the point. The Point is You don't have to have Emerald Fusions and Unprettiers in peoples movesets to make them entertaining. By varyin the movesets for each wrestlers you add to the replay Value, if I'm Hogan I'm going to be a power wrestler who does alot of brawling, if I'm Bret Hart I want to go after a guy with techinical skill, blening move afetr mover together, if I'm Brian Pillman I want to fly, move fast and try to hit that hi impact move that will win the match.
                    People try and compare wrestling games to fighting games and while they are diffrent ask yourself this.. does every fighter I choice in Mortal Kombat have the same moves? No they don't just have one or two special moves either they have a number of diffrent "signature" moves that helps to make each one unquie.
                    I understand that you may have to put moves in that the wrestlers didn't do all the time but "could have" Superstar Billy Graham would have done a numerous amount of things in the ring before he'd use a Rock Bottom.
                    Also back in the day and to an extent now, peoples finisher were protected, they weren't used as regular moves in a match, so while Steamboat may have been able to pull off al Fisherman (or PefectPlex) Supex he wouldn't have done it nor would he have do the variation Fisherman buster. Look back at when Rude and HTM were using diffrent variations of the Neckbreaker in the WWF, while its a basic move it was never used in a match by someone else.
                    It took me two hours with pen and paper and a few Hogan Matches, mostly off the Hogan Rules DVD and a few Japan tapes, to compile a moveset that would be true to Hogan and still be fun. If Acclaim continues to make these games they should invest sometime into watching the tapes, hire some wrestlers to come in and take some bumps so they can reanimate some moves, Greg Valentine, The Rock N Roll Express, Dusty Rhodes, Tito Sanatana, Tony ATlas, The Nasty Boys, Rick Steiner, Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr. are all active in some way shape or form on indy shows all over the place, bring them in for a week and let them do some moves that you can capture, bring in some younger indy guys to help you get the newer moves if you want them in for CAL, UPW is in San Fran you guys are in Austin Texas not that far of a drive and I'm sure you could get their help.
                    I'll stop rambling now, but I hope this proves a little bit of what I'm trying say, it wasn't because Acclaim had to make the movesets so off, it was because they were to lazy to try.

                    Comment

                    • JohnDoe8865
                      Hall of Fame
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 9607

                      #11
                      Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                      Raider XWW, if you decide to get any more movesets, would you be kind enough to post them on here? I know it is a tedious process, as I have done it on other forums many times myself. If not entire movests, then some replacements for obvious mistakes (urinagi suplex or rock bottom in the WWE).

                      Also, the whole "clone" thing. If you give Hogan these moves, will he use them in career mode, or will he revert back to the crap moves that Acclaim gave him?

                      Thanks.
                      Favorite Sports Teams

                      NFL - Carolina Panthers
                      NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                      MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                      College Basketball - Wake Forest
                      NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                      Comment

                      • JohnDoe8865
                        Hall of Fame
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 9607

                        #12
                        Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                        Raider XWW, if you decide to get any more movesets, would you be kind enough to post them on here? I know it is a tedious process, as I have done it on other forums many times myself. If not entire movests, then some replacements for obvious mistakes (urinagi suplex or rock bottom in the WWE).

                        Also, the whole "clone" thing. If you give Hogan these moves, will he use them in career mode, or will he revert back to the crap moves that Acclaim gave him?

                        Thanks.
                        Favorite Sports Teams

                        NFL - Carolina Panthers
                        NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                        MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                        College Basketball - Wake Forest
                        NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                        Comment

                        • JohnDoe8865
                          Hall of Fame
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 9607

                          #13
                          Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                          Raider XWW, if you decide to get any more movesets, would you be kind enough to post them on here? I know it is a tedious process, as I have done it on other forums many times myself. If not entire movests, then some replacements for obvious mistakes (urinagi suplex or rock bottom in the WWE).

                          Also, the whole "clone" thing. If you give Hogan these moves, will he use them in career mode, or will he revert back to the crap moves that Acclaim gave him?

                          Thanks.
                          Favorite Sports Teams

                          NFL - Carolina Panthers
                          NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                          MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                          College Basketball - Wake Forest
                          NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                          Comment

                          • RaiderXWW
                            Rookie
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 17

                            #14
                            Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                            John,
                            While I would love to do it and had planed to there are a few problems, 1 being some of the moves I mentioned in my rant are simple moves that Acclaim decided not to animate, second when you clone some one to remake the game glitches, and when you use them they get about 4 shades darker in skin color, if you go back to change the skin tone it deletes the clothes on the wrestler as well as the long hair if the have it. If they have short hair, the hair changes to the color of the skin, making it impossible to clone and edit the wrestlers and come out with them looking normal.
                            The whole reason I bought the XBOX version was the extra CAL Space by saving to harddrive, I spent the last two days cloning the costume I liked most and then watching tapes to get Movesets, having freinds on Kayfabememories, WrestlingClassics,, OLD-School wrestling and a few of the actual wrestlers them selves help me get the sets together, when I finished about half a dozen I went back and they were all almost as black as a black crayon, it was crazy.
                            If you want to change the movesets fot Carreer, you can only cahnge the moves of the person you are, you start one then quit at the very beginning but save. Then got to Create, go to Saved Wrestler and pick your carreer mode, that will bring up the wrestler you are palying as, but as soon as you pull him up in the CAL when you go back to play he'll be darkened.

                            Comment

                            • RaiderXWW
                              Rookie
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 17

                              #15
                              Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                              John,
                              While I would love to do it and had planed to there are a few problems, 1 being some of the moves I mentioned in my rant are simple moves that Acclaim decided not to animate, second when you clone some one to remake the game glitches, and when you use them they get about 4 shades darker in skin color, if you go back to change the skin tone it deletes the clothes on the wrestler as well as the long hair if the have it. If they have short hair, the hair changes to the color of the skin, making it impossible to clone and edit the wrestlers and come out with them looking normal.
                              The whole reason I bought the XBOX version was the extra CAL Space by saving to harddrive, I spent the last two days cloning the costume I liked most and then watching tapes to get Movesets, having freinds on Kayfabememories, WrestlingClassics,, OLD-School wrestling and a few of the actual wrestlers them selves help me get the sets together, when I finished about half a dozen I went back and they were all almost as black as a black crayon, it was crazy.
                              If you want to change the movesets fot Carreer, you can only cahnge the moves of the person you are, you start one then quit at the very beginning but save. Then got to Create, go to Saved Wrestler and pick your carreer mode, that will bring up the wrestler you are palying as, but as soon as you pull him up in the CAL when you go back to play he'll be darkened.

                              Comment

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