My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

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  • RaiderXWW
    Rookie
    • Feb 2004
    • 17

    #16
    Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

    John,
    While I would love to do it and had planed to there are a few problems, 1 being some of the moves I mentioned in my rant are simple moves that Acclaim decided not to animate, second when you clone some one to remake the game glitches, and when you use them they get about 4 shades darker in skin color, if you go back to change the skin tone it deletes the clothes on the wrestler as well as the long hair if the have it. If they have short hair, the hair changes to the color of the skin, making it impossible to clone and edit the wrestlers and come out with them looking normal.
    The whole reason I bought the XBOX version was the extra CAL Space by saving to harddrive, I spent the last two days cloning the costume I liked most and then watching tapes to get Movesets, having freinds on Kayfabememories, WrestlingClassics,, OLD-School wrestling and a few of the actual wrestlers them selves help me get the sets together, when I finished about half a dozen I went back and they were all almost as black as a black crayon, it was crazy.
    If you want to change the movesets fot Carreer, you can only cahnge the moves of the person you are, you start one then quit at the very beginning but save. Then got to Create, go to Saved Wrestler and pick your carreer mode, that will bring up the wrestler you are palying as, but as soon as you pull him up in the CAL when you go back to play he'll be darkened.

    Comment

    • koolbubbaice
      MVP
      • May 2004
      • 2236

      #17
      Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

      Too bad acclaim couldn't have put raider on the team.. He actually cares about getting the movesets correctly..Nice Hogan, Man..
      Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

      Audio set up:
      Benchmark DAC1
      headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

      Comment

      • koolbubbaice
        MVP
        • May 2004
        • 2236

        #18
        Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

        Too bad acclaim couldn't have put raider on the team.. He actually cares about getting the movesets correctly..Nice Hogan, Man..
        Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

        Audio set up:
        Benchmark DAC1
        headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

        Comment

        • koolbubbaice
          MVP
          • May 2004
          • 2236

          #19
          Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

          Too bad acclaim couldn't have put raider on the team.. He actually cares about getting the movesets correctly..Nice Hogan, Man..
          Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

          Audio set up:
          Benchmark DAC1
          headphones: Balanced Sony SA5000/Sen 650 AKG 340

          Comment

          • JohnDoe8865
            Hall of Fame
            • Jul 2002
            • 9607

            #20
            Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

            Now that is downright pathetic. How in the world does something THAT OBVIOUS get by any sort of QA team? That is sheer incompetence, and really starts to make me wish that someone other than Acclaim had the license to Legends of Wrestling. I was pretty excited when Acclaim Austin took over, I expected at the very least some polish. But it appears that is too much to ask from any Acclaim development team. I'm very frustrated right now. It might play a decent single player game and I have heard that the mult-player can be fun, but without the ability to give these guys era specific movesets, the game is worth 10 bucks at most to me. It really kills the feeling of wrestling with a legend when his moveset is littered with modern moves.

            Was it really that hard to give us the option to edit these guys? I'll answer that. No, it couldn't have been. And really there should have been no need. Justin's complaint was that he felt if they went completely era specific than it would be too boring with guys using the same 3 or 4 moves. Did you watch classic wrestling Justin? It wasn't boring, and they only used a very limited moveset. Your target audience realizes this and it kills them to see Rock Bottoms.

            There are so many variations of headlocks, leg locks, arm bars, takedowns, simple suplexes and basic drops that would have been more than adequate in a game featuring Legends of Wrestling.

            In that era (generally speaking) it was about pacing and strategy. Finishing moves didn't even have to end a match like you see now. You could win on a roll up, sunset flip, etc and never land your finisher. I can understand the likes of RVD and Eddie Guerero having more modern movesets, but not Hulk Hogan and Billy Graham. I've read so much about how you guys at Acclaim watched hours of tapes and watched the maneurisms, etc. Did you watch the moves they were using? A vertical suplex was a move that would pop the crowd. A body slam could mean that the end was near. An entire match could be constructed around a wrestler targeting a foe's arm or leg in an attempt to weaken them to the point of submission. It was beautiful. It pains me to see such an opportunity to make a wonderful game with the best roster ever, spolied like this.

            Sorry for the rant, but I have been increasingly frustrated with the game lately and I guess the Q&A here at OS and Gamingring's coverage got me a excited for great experience and I probably shouldn't have been with Acclaim's wrestling track record.
            Favorite Sports Teams

            NFL - Carolina Panthers
            NBA - Charlotte Hornets
            MLB - Cincinnati Reds
            College Basketball - Wake Forest
            NCAA Football - Appalachian State

            Comment

            • JohnDoe8865
              Hall of Fame
              • Jul 2002
              • 9607

              #21
              Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

              Now that is downright pathetic. How in the world does something THAT OBVIOUS get by any sort of QA team? That is sheer incompetence, and really starts to make me wish that someone other than Acclaim had the license to Legends of Wrestling. I was pretty excited when Acclaim Austin took over, I expected at the very least some polish. But it appears that is too much to ask from any Acclaim development team. I'm very frustrated right now. It might play a decent single player game and I have heard that the mult-player can be fun, but without the ability to give these guys era specific movesets, the game is worth 10 bucks at most to me. It really kills the feeling of wrestling with a legend when his moveset is littered with modern moves.

              Was it really that hard to give us the option to edit these guys? I'll answer that. No, it couldn't have been. And really there should have been no need. Justin's complaint was that he felt if they went completely era specific than it would be too boring with guys using the same 3 or 4 moves. Did you watch classic wrestling Justin? It wasn't boring, and they only used a very limited moveset. Your target audience realizes this and it kills them to see Rock Bottoms.

              There are so many variations of headlocks, leg locks, arm bars, takedowns, simple suplexes and basic drops that would have been more than adequate in a game featuring Legends of Wrestling.

              In that era (generally speaking) it was about pacing and strategy. Finishing moves didn't even have to end a match like you see now. You could win on a roll up, sunset flip, etc and never land your finisher. I can understand the likes of RVD and Eddie Guerero having more modern movesets, but not Hulk Hogan and Billy Graham. I've read so much about how you guys at Acclaim watched hours of tapes and watched the maneurisms, etc. Did you watch the moves they were using? A vertical suplex was a move that would pop the crowd. A body slam could mean that the end was near. An entire match could be constructed around a wrestler targeting a foe's arm or leg in an attempt to weaken them to the point of submission. It was beautiful. It pains me to see such an opportunity to make a wonderful game with the best roster ever, spolied like this.

              Sorry for the rant, but I have been increasingly frustrated with the game lately and I guess the Q&A here at OS and Gamingring's coverage got me a excited for great experience and I probably shouldn't have been with Acclaim's wrestling track record.
              Favorite Sports Teams

              NFL - Carolina Panthers
              NBA - Charlotte Hornets
              MLB - Cincinnati Reds
              College Basketball - Wake Forest
              NCAA Football - Appalachian State

              Comment

              • JohnDoe8865
                Hall of Fame
                • Jul 2002
                • 9607

                #22
                Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                Now that is downright pathetic. How in the world does something THAT OBVIOUS get by any sort of QA team? That is sheer incompetence, and really starts to make me wish that someone other than Acclaim had the license to Legends of Wrestling. I was pretty excited when Acclaim Austin took over, I expected at the very least some polish. But it appears that is too much to ask from any Acclaim development team. I'm very frustrated right now. It might play a decent single player game and I have heard that the mult-player can be fun, but without the ability to give these guys era specific movesets, the game is worth 10 bucks at most to me. It really kills the feeling of wrestling with a legend when his moveset is littered with modern moves.

                Was it really that hard to give us the option to edit these guys? I'll answer that. No, it couldn't have been. And really there should have been no need. Justin's complaint was that he felt if they went completely era specific than it would be too boring with guys using the same 3 or 4 moves. Did you watch classic wrestling Justin? It wasn't boring, and they only used a very limited moveset. Your target audience realizes this and it kills them to see Rock Bottoms.

                There are so many variations of headlocks, leg locks, arm bars, takedowns, simple suplexes and basic drops that would have been more than adequate in a game featuring Legends of Wrestling.

                In that era (generally speaking) it was about pacing and strategy. Finishing moves didn't even have to end a match like you see now. You could win on a roll up, sunset flip, etc and never land your finisher. I can understand the likes of RVD and Eddie Guerero having more modern movesets, but not Hulk Hogan and Billy Graham. I've read so much about how you guys at Acclaim watched hours of tapes and watched the maneurisms, etc. Did you watch the moves they were using? A vertical suplex was a move that would pop the crowd. A body slam could mean that the end was near. An entire match could be constructed around a wrestler targeting a foe's arm or leg in an attempt to weaken them to the point of submission. It was beautiful. It pains me to see such an opportunity to make a wonderful game with the best roster ever, spolied like this.

                Sorry for the rant, but I have been increasingly frustrated with the game lately and I guess the Q&A here at OS and Gamingring's coverage got me a excited for great experience and I probably shouldn't have been with Acclaim's wrestling track record.
                Favorite Sports Teams

                NFL - Carolina Panthers
                NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                College Basketball - Wake Forest
                NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                Comment

                • JohnDoe8865
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 9607

                  #23
                  Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                  Hey guys, I had a thought (rare occurance) and I'd like to know if this is possible or feasible. Could we maybe use a device such as an Action Replay or other device (Gameshark? for Xbox) and hack the movesets ourselves in the game? I know it would be tedious, but I'd be more than willing to help on any such project. Maybe just universally eliminate the modern moves and replace them with an old move for every wrestler that uses an out of place move?

                  I don't know if it's possible, just throwing that out. I know that people have been sucesfully hacking the Smackdown series since the beginning. It would be wonderful if this were possible with Legends. Might make it a whole new game.
                  Favorite Sports Teams

                  NFL - Carolina Panthers
                  NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                  MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                  College Basketball - Wake Forest
                  NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                  Comment

                  • JohnDoe8865
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 9607

                    #24
                    Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                    Hey guys, I had a thought (rare occurance) and I'd like to know if this is possible or feasible. Could we maybe use a device such as an Action Replay or other device (Gameshark? for Xbox) and hack the movesets ourselves in the game? I know it would be tedious, but I'd be more than willing to help on any such project. Maybe just universally eliminate the modern moves and replace them with an old move for every wrestler that uses an out of place move?

                    I don't know if it's possible, just throwing that out. I know that people have been sucesfully hacking the Smackdown series since the beginning. It would be wonderful if this were possible with Legends. Might make it a whole new game.
                    Favorite Sports Teams

                    NFL - Carolina Panthers
                    NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                    MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                    College Basketball - Wake Forest
                    NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                    Comment

                    • JohnDoe8865
                      Hall of Fame
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 9607

                      #25
                      Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                      Hey guys, I had a thought (rare occurance) and I'd like to know if this is possible or feasible. Could we maybe use a device such as an Action Replay or other device (Gameshark? for Xbox) and hack the movesets ourselves in the game? I know it would be tedious, but I'd be more than willing to help on any such project. Maybe just universally eliminate the modern moves and replace them with an old move for every wrestler that uses an out of place move?

                      I don't know if it's possible, just throwing that out. I know that people have been sucesfully hacking the Smackdown series since the beginning. It would be wonderful if this were possible with Legends. Might make it a whole new game.
                      Favorite Sports Teams

                      NFL - Carolina Panthers
                      NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                      MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                      College Basketball - Wake Forest
                      NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                      Comment

                      • RaiderXWW
                        Rookie
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 17

                        #26
                        Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                        John,
                        The problem is very evident when you read the diaries on the site, hardly anyone on the team was a wrestling fan before starting, and once they supposedly became a fan it was for the newer product. The developmental teams favorite match was Funk vs Sabu born to be wired. As much of a contribution that ECW may or may not have given wrestling, and thats another topic all together, an ECW show ro match should never have been used in the creating of this game.
                        As I said before the web is full of boards and sites dedicated to the Old School fan, most of the shows I help with or put on are full of old school stars many whom are featured in this game. The other problem you find is in the Q and A done about this game, it was stated that the wrestlers have very little to do with putting the game together, now call dumb but wouldn't the wrestlers be able to tell you what moves they did?
                        Heres another problem, everyone moves at the same speed. Andre was slw alot slower then Bret and esp. Slower then Pillman but in the game they move at same speed. Mr. Winters has gone on record not wanting a "hardcore sim" well what can I tell you, I guess that the faans of Madden in Football would play the game if a line backer ran as fast as a running back and anyone could throw the football down the field.
                        Thier is an old saying, Wrestling: In Mexico its a religon, in Canada it's a tradition, in Japan it's a sport and in America it's a joke. That is where the problem lies, if this game is going to succes Acclaim needs to realize that many people feel just as passionatly about wrestling as they do other sports. They need a team of WRESTLING FANS, or at least an advisory board of wrestling histoians. Actually I know just the guy they need, an old 80's prelim who wrestles and trains wrestlers to this day, George South. George's job was to make everyone he wrestled look good as he flew around the ring and sold thier offense, he has a mind for wrestling history like no other and would be the missing link needed to make this game run smoother.
                        I know that all this means nothing and I'm just running my mouth, since when does Acclaim listen to what we want anyway? I kust hope that they'll realize that wrestling fans are intellegent people who love wrestling just a much as some love baseball or Football or Hockey, it's time they stopped ignoring us and using us to make a quick buck. Maybe during all that time they were making WWF games VKM rubbed off on them a little bit, it took him forever to realize that the old school die hard fan kept wrestling afloat, it's time Acclaim listen too.

                        Comment

                        • RaiderXWW
                          Rookie
                          • Feb 2004
                          • 17

                          #27
                          Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                          John,
                          The problem is very evident when you read the diaries on the site, hardly anyone on the team was a wrestling fan before starting, and once they supposedly became a fan it was for the newer product. The developmental teams favorite match was Funk vs Sabu born to be wired. As much of a contribution that ECW may or may not have given wrestling, and thats another topic all together, an ECW show ro match should never have been used in the creating of this game.
                          As I said before the web is full of boards and sites dedicated to the Old School fan, most of the shows I help with or put on are full of old school stars many whom are featured in this game. The other problem you find is in the Q and A done about this game, it was stated that the wrestlers have very little to do with putting the game together, now call dumb but wouldn't the wrestlers be able to tell you what moves they did?
                          Heres another problem, everyone moves at the same speed. Andre was slw alot slower then Bret and esp. Slower then Pillman but in the game they move at same speed. Mr. Winters has gone on record not wanting a "hardcore sim" well what can I tell you, I guess that the faans of Madden in Football would play the game if a line backer ran as fast as a running back and anyone could throw the football down the field.
                          Thier is an old saying, Wrestling: In Mexico its a religon, in Canada it's a tradition, in Japan it's a sport and in America it's a joke. That is where the problem lies, if this game is going to succes Acclaim needs to realize that many people feel just as passionatly about wrestling as they do other sports. They need a team of WRESTLING FANS, or at least an advisory board of wrestling histoians. Actually I know just the guy they need, an old 80's prelim who wrestles and trains wrestlers to this day, George South. George's job was to make everyone he wrestled look good as he flew around the ring and sold thier offense, he has a mind for wrestling history like no other and would be the missing link needed to make this game run smoother.
                          I know that all this means nothing and I'm just running my mouth, since when does Acclaim listen to what we want anyway? I kust hope that they'll realize that wrestling fans are intellegent people who love wrestling just a much as some love baseball or Football or Hockey, it's time they stopped ignoring us and using us to make a quick buck. Maybe during all that time they were making WWF games VKM rubbed off on them a little bit, it took him forever to realize that the old school die hard fan kept wrestling afloat, it's time Acclaim listen too.

                          Comment

                          • RaiderXWW
                            Rookie
                            • Feb 2004
                            • 17

                            #28
                            Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                            John,
                            The problem is very evident when you read the diaries on the site, hardly anyone on the team was a wrestling fan before starting, and once they supposedly became a fan it was for the newer product. The developmental teams favorite match was Funk vs Sabu born to be wired. As much of a contribution that ECW may or may not have given wrestling, and thats another topic all together, an ECW show ro match should never have been used in the creating of this game.
                            As I said before the web is full of boards and sites dedicated to the Old School fan, most of the shows I help with or put on are full of old school stars many whom are featured in this game. The other problem you find is in the Q and A done about this game, it was stated that the wrestlers have very little to do with putting the game together, now call dumb but wouldn't the wrestlers be able to tell you what moves they did?
                            Heres another problem, everyone moves at the same speed. Andre was slw alot slower then Bret and esp. Slower then Pillman but in the game they move at same speed. Mr. Winters has gone on record not wanting a "hardcore sim" well what can I tell you, I guess that the faans of Madden in Football would play the game if a line backer ran as fast as a running back and anyone could throw the football down the field.
                            Thier is an old saying, Wrestling: In Mexico its a religon, in Canada it's a tradition, in Japan it's a sport and in America it's a joke. That is where the problem lies, if this game is going to succes Acclaim needs to realize that many people feel just as passionatly about wrestling as they do other sports. They need a team of WRESTLING FANS, or at least an advisory board of wrestling histoians. Actually I know just the guy they need, an old 80's prelim who wrestles and trains wrestlers to this day, George South. George's job was to make everyone he wrestled look good as he flew around the ring and sold thier offense, he has a mind for wrestling history like no other and would be the missing link needed to make this game run smoother.
                            I know that all this means nothing and I'm just running my mouth, since when does Acclaim listen to what we want anyway? I kust hope that they'll realize that wrestling fans are intellegent people who love wrestling just a much as some love baseball or Football or Hockey, it's time they stopped ignoring us and using us to make a quick buck. Maybe during all that time they were making WWF games VKM rubbed off on them a little bit, it took him forever to realize that the old school die hard fan kept wrestling afloat, it's time Acclaim listen too.

                            Comment

                            • JohnDoe8865
                              Hall of Fame
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 9607

                              #29
                              Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                              Raider, I wish I had a chance to get to know you better. I remember George South. He wrestled in the mid atlantic region in the 80's where I saw him, and frequently put over many of the NWA's stars and legends.

                              I have tremndous respect for those guys. Tremedous. Unfortunately, the mainstream wrestling climate these days doesn't have a place for the George South's of the world.

                              I would love to someday see a group of fans of old wrestling get together and fund some sort of game.
                              Favorite Sports Teams

                              NFL - Carolina Panthers
                              NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                              MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                              College Basketball - Wake Forest
                              NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                              Comment

                              • JohnDoe8865
                                Hall of Fame
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 9607

                                #30
                                Re: My thoughts on the whole Showdown ordeal...

                                Raider, I wish I had a chance to get to know you better. I remember George South. He wrestled in the mid atlantic region in the 80's where I saw him, and frequently put over many of the NWA's stars and legends.

                                I have tremndous respect for those guys. Tremedous. Unfortunately, the mainstream wrestling climate these days doesn't have a place for the George South's of the world.

                                I would love to someday see a group of fans of old wrestling get together and fund some sort of game.
                                Favorite Sports Teams

                                NFL - Carolina Panthers
                                NBA - Charlotte Hornets
                                MLB - Cincinnati Reds
                                College Basketball - Wake Forest
                                NCAA Football - Appalachian State

                                Comment

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