EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

So the argument that EA Madden largely wants to cater to casuals is not absolute. If the development team actually puts in the time and effort to better replicate football creating a solid simulation experience, and appropriately market it using terms and phrases that'll bait and hook casuals, it wouldn't or shouldn't actually turn off casuals would it considering it will be the only NFL game in town, right?

Simulation Madden can still revolve around MUT if that's what team EA Madden wants to do. Young kids these days pretty much can adapt to most video games, can they not? A simulation product could even strenghthen the brand.

Great marketing teams should be able to sell ice to eskimos, right? Great marketing teams should be able to sell a simulation experience to the casuals, right? Run exactly like Adrian Peterson, throw exactly like Tom Brady or Drew Brees, use Johnny Manzel and take the Browns to consecutive Superbowls, use your stick skills to overcome real football penalties. Run a 2 minute offense just like Peyton Manning. Demolish the competition using the Seattle Seahawk's defense. Shut out the competition and serve up a goose egg. See what a top running back sees. See what a top level QB sees. You. Are. In. Control. Isn't it just finding creative ways and word combinations to serve up simulation gameplay to the casuals?

I'm not arguing that EA can't put a Sim style football game together. I'm arguing they don't have to anymore. They are the only football game out there, and the new generation of kids that are gaming have never experienced Sim style and thus don't know that the current Madden is much different than the Madden from many years ago.

Barring a massive drop in sales for Madden 15, the brand doesn't need to be strengthened. Even people that don't play video games know what Madden is. They recognize the name. The Name itself has a ton of buying power. The only way I could ever see a movement back to a sim style Madden is if 15 completely craps the bed. To the point where it's getting panned by all major critics. And I highly doubt that happens unless Madden has an NBA live type of meltdown.

[Gridiron]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

With respect, I believe you're seriously mistaken here. It is my understanding that back when EA and Sega were both in the football game business the NFL/NFLPA did not get paid up front:






If this is correct (and DrJones was in a position to know since he actually worked for EA prior to "the Great Purge") that means that Sega wound up paying the NFL only a $1.99 per unit sold instead of $4.99. The notion that the NFL wouldn't care about this or the precedent it might set vis a vis their other business partners is fanciful at best.





Confident or desperate? Again according to VGChartz:


NFL 2k3 (North America) PS2 1.06 million units + XB .38 million units = 1.44 million units


ESPN NFL Football (aka NFL 2k4) PS2 .27 million units + XB .27 million total = .54 million


That's a 62% drop in sales from 2002 to 2003. Under those circumstances I can certainly understand why Sega felt they needed to roll the dice.





Perhaps. The fact that it was an licensed NFL game for a mere $20 and it was released three weeks before Madden (July 20th vs Aug 9th) may have had little something to do with those numbers as well.

I don't get why you keep posting sales numbers? Everybody knows what those games sold.

About this DrJones cat. Okay, he worked for EA, so have thousands of other people. Doesn't mean he knows any more about the deal terms than anybody else. Gotta know his real name and the position he held before any weight can be put on that, man. Sorry, that's just nothing.

I mean, because a dude worked at Wal-Mart, that doesn't mean he had anything to do with their contract with AND1. EA is a big company, and only so many high rankers would have full knowledge of something like that, like their lawyers, CEO, Executive level dudes. I don't think any of them were hanging out on OS back then or even now, for real.

[Gridiron]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

DrJones was involved and is a very reputable source for this subject. Nothing he got was "second hand."

What's his real name? What position did he hold? What was his exact involvement with the contract?

[Gridiron]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

People are overstating NFL 2K5's importance in football gaming. Yes it was a great game at the time it came out, I played it religiously for quite some time, but since Madden 12, EA has been creating a game that is, in my opinion, better than NFL 2K5. NFL 2K5 is great, but let's not act like the game is some sim masterpiece, because it isn't. It played a good game of football and I will always remember some of the crazy games I have played during my time with the game, but I have moved on. I, for one, cannot wait for Madden 15 and the experience I am about to have with it, Tiburon with all their faults have been trying to right this ship and they have done an admirable job since 2012.

On the strength, it's EA's fault that people still compare the games. 2K5 shouldn't have anything on Madden today. APF shouldn't either. But the sad truth, it's got A LOT on Madden right now.

People are just bein real.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I'm not arguing that EA can't put a Sim style football game together. I'm arguing they don't have to anymore. They are the only football game out there, and the new generation of kids that are gaming have never experienced Sim style and thus don't know that the current Madden is much different than the Madden from many years ago.

Barring a massive drop in sales for Madden 15, the brand doesn't need to be strengthened. Even people that don't play video games know what Madden is. They recognize the name. The Name itself has a ton of buying power. The only way I could ever see a movement back to a sim style Madden is if 15 completely craps the bed. To the point where it's getting panned by all major critics. And I highly doubt that happens unless Madden has an NBA live type of meltdown.

Argument in a general sense....the community. The general sense, the general perspective that EA doesn't want to because it is assumed the casual crowd simply won't accept a truly simulation experience. Strengthen with respect to the simulation crowd.

My point is this, if EA Madden creates a game beloved by the simulation crowd, and EA marketing team markets the simulation experience with addictive words and phrases that reel in the casuals, then it becomes a win. EA wins with the sim crowd, Ea wins with the casual crowd.

Considering the "simulation" direction team EA Madden is moving, wouldn't a massive drop in sales prompt the suits to steer the developers away from simulation? Wouldn't it make more sense for a simulation resurrection if team Madden is developing an outright arcade experience, is heavily marketed and advertised as arcade, and sales is a complete disaster?

[kehlis]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

What's his real name? What position did he hold? What was his exact involvement with the contract?

No idea, I'm not his PR rep nor am I friends with him on linkedin. I just know he's proven over the years to be correct with everything related to behind the scenes before it's been public knowledge.

Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you want to listen to what he's said, I was just pointing that out, take it for what it's worth.

[NicVirtue]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I think everyone here can agree that we WANT to stop talking about how good the other games were. We WANT to forget about them, especially in this day and age where the technological advancements are FAR superior to what it was 10 years ago. We're sick and tired about reminiscing on the other games. But until we get a product that shows how far along we've come with the tech we have today, then can you really blame anyone for bringing up the past? Madden has never had off setting penalties..........That was done 10 years ago. That's acceptable today....how exactly? Madden has never had WR/DB interactions past 5 yards. That was done 10 years ago. Madden is JUST NOW getting a halftime show. That was done 10 years ago, and done better. Madden still does not have running styles. That was done 10 years ago. Madden has never had proper ball physics. That was done 10 years ago. It took Madden 10 years to get double team pass blocking......That was done 10 years ago.

None of that, is subject to my opinion, as anyone with the older game can verify it factitious.

[FaceMask]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I don't get why you keep posting sales numbers? Everybody knows what those games sold.

About this DrJones cat. Okay, he worked for EA, so have thousands of other people. Doesn't mean he knows any more about the deal terms than anybody else. Gotta know his real name and the position he held before any weight can be put on that, man. Sorry, that's just nothing.

I mean, because a dude worked at Wal-Mart, that doesn't mean he had anything to do with their contract with AND1. EA is a big company, and only so many high rankers would have full knowledge of something like that, like their lawyers, CEO, Executive level dudes. I don't think any of them were hanging out on OS back then or even now, for real.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible. It could very well be true that it was a per unit deal. They're very common. However, I can't see how that would've benefited the NFL at the time, as many of these franchises that had an NFL license didn't sell well at all. I could however see a possibility where they base the terms on the companies size/market reach which is also very common, and it's a way to allow smaller companies an opportunity. I believe they currently do this with the mobile market.

What it all boils down to is proof. All I can go by is what has been proven. Before I can accept an internet post as fact, I have to know more about the background of the person posting. Even sometimes being close to something doesn't necessarily mean you know the ins and outs. I recall Donovan McNabb not being aware that games could end in a tie.

I recall an EA/Tiburon developer once arguing at another board about what constitutes an engine and he was a high-ranking dev inside the inner-workings of AAA game development. He was also very wrong.

I just need to see proof.

[kehlis]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible. It could very well be true that it was a per unit deal. They're very common. However, I can't see how that would've benefited the NFL at the time, as many of these franchises that had an NFL license didn't see well at all. I could however see a possibility where they base the terms on the companies size/market reach which is also very common, and it's a way to allow smaller companies an opportunity. I believe they currently do this with the mobile market.

I could be way off base but couldn't it have been that it was the same deal for any company that wanted it and that each deal wasn't specifically designed for a particular company?

[Gridiron]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

No idea, I'm not his PR rep nor am I friends with him on linkedin. I just know he's proven over the years to be correct with everything related to behind the scenes before it's been public knowledge.

Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you want to listen to what he's said, I was just pointing that out, take it for what it's worth.

A little snarky there.

Pete Dodd was correct a lot too at one time. Then DriveClub happened. But at least we knew his name and his position (or lack of it). This Jones cat we're talking about is just an anonymous guy on the net might've just been lucky enough to be considered credible. I'm just sayin.

[kehlis]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

A little snarky there.

Pete Dodd was correct a lot too at one time. Then DriveClub happened. But at least we knew his name and his position (or lack of it). This Jones cat we're talking about is just an anonymous guy on the net might've just been lucky enough to be considered credible. I'm just sayin.

Snarky? That certainly wasn't my intent but you're asking a question you know I don't know the answer to or it would have already been brought up.


I can appreciate being skeptical, again, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, but I can assure you he is far more credible than most here and certainly didn't get lucky on multiple occasions over the years but again, no biggie. Sorry it was brought up.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I think everyone here can agree that we WANT to stop talking about how good the other games were. We WANT to forget about them, especially in this day and age where the technological advancements are FAR superior to what it was 10 years ago. We're sick and tired about reminiscing on the other games. But until we get a product that shows how far along we've come with the tech we have today, then can you really blame anyone for bringing up the past? Madden has never had off setting penalties..........That was done 10 years ago. That's acceptable today....how exactly? Madden has never had WR/DB interactions past 5 yards. That was done 10 years ago. Madden is JUST NOW getting a halftime show. That was done 10 years ago, and done better. Madden still does not have running styles. That was done 10 years ago. Madden has never had proper ball physics. That was done 10 years ago. It took Madden 10 years to get double team pass blocking......That was done 10 years ago.

None of that, is subject to my opinion, as anyone with the older game can verify it factitious.

This is exactly what I was saying in my previous post before it was attacked and misunderstood. Everyone wants to play the best, most comprehensive game. Everyone wants to go forward. I agree 100%.

[Gridiron]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

you know I don't know the answer to or it would have already been brought up.

Nah, I honestly thought you might've known. I didn't mean to sound all detective right there. My bad.

[dkp23]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Look at 2k14, imo, 2k is catering and making a sim bball game. The stuff i use to do on the old lives running around like playing run n gun on the arcade i couldnt do. I dont see that bball game getting hated on, it gets praised for the innovation and the great graphics. The realism and how authentic the game plays with momentum and physics. You may see an odd play every so often, but you arent going to be running around with a player slicing through the defense and scoring 100 points, unless you are playing on low level.

I dont see why EA can't take that approach too, if they create a great simulator, people would love it and the notion that the casual gamer wont, i dont think that is true. I think they would, people like realism and the casual gamer loves graphics. I am not talking about stupid gameplay trailers with upclose shots, but great graphics on the screen when you actually play the game.

Really, either EA is catering to the casual more or they just have a horrid development team that can't get it right, either way,it is bad. My guess is, they are probably still using the same code from madden 06. Time to scrap it up and build a brand new engine. Every year, it is "we built it from the ground up", im sure nothing was built from the ground up at this point as many aspects of the game remain the same and people continue to whine about the same issues every single year.

[FaceMask]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I could be way off base but couldn't it have been that it was the same deal for any company that wanted it and that each deal wasn't specifically designed for a particular company?

Not off base at all. That actually would make a lot of sense. Whether they were per unit or not is the thing I'm wanting to get concrete evidence for.

If DrJones' info is accurate, then that would raise some new questions in my mind.

I don't know if anyone in media cares enough about this anymore, but it would be nice if someone in that field could interview an NFL licensing official about this. Contract terms may prevent divulging even old info, but it would be interesting to hear from them what their position was on the whole matter back then.