EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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  • bucky60
    Banned
    • Jan 2008
    • 3288

    #301
    Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

    Originally posted by CM Hooe
    This is subjective, i.e. "based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions".

    It's your opinion that prior games were better options, and it's fine to hold, but just because and several other very vocal posters hold that view doesn't make the universal truth.

    I really don't know how else to put it.
    I've never owned a NFL2K game, but those that do own it seem to be able to post actual videos with visual evidence of sim aspects that makes this far less subjective.

    Comment

    • FBall Life
      Rookie
      • Nov 2013
      • 334

      #302
      Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

      Originally posted by CM Hooe
      This is subjective, i.e. "based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions".

      It's your opinion that prior games were better options, and it's fine to hold, but just because and several other very vocal posters hold that view doesn't make the universal truth.

      I really don't know how else to put it.
      This poster already articulated it better than I could.



      Originally posted by NicVirtue
      When a 10/7 year old game is more fundamentally sound, authentic, and true to the sport than a game that is supposed to come out in 2014, then I think saying "it's subject to opinion" is a bit of a cop out. When it comes to football, there is a plethora of things that 1 game has, that the more recent game does not. That's not an opinion, that's a fact of the lack of football aspect from a recent NFL game, compared to a decade old game. When people can literally go back and point out all the things that 1 game has, that the other game does not, it being an "opinion" is out the door. It's as black and white as it gets. 1 game is as authentic as we ever had, and the other seems to be struggling to get there. I't been quite evident over the years.

      I mean you can say you like not having pass interference called 95% of the time. That doesn't mean your preference is true to the game of football. You can say you like no double team tackling. That doesn't mean your preference is true to the game of football. There is a laundry list of things not done in Madden, that have been done 10 years ago in another game. There is a laundry list of things Madden has, but hasn't done right, that the other game has done right 10 years ago. With those things, I don't see how it can be subject to opinion, when the bottom line is NFL Football, and what happens on Sunday. The problem is that people have been trained to play Madden, not football. You can enjoy it for what it is, but it dam sure isn't an authentic representation of football. If it were, people like me wouldn't need to go back and play the "other" game.

      Comment

      • kehlis
        Moderator
        • Jul 2008
        • 27738

        #303
        Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

        Subjectiveness goes both ways though.

        You can be happy with the current state of the game and that's fine but there is nothing wrong with pointing out deficiencies or asking for more either.

        Comment

        • Hooe
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2002
          • 21554

          #304
          Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

          Originally posted by kehlis
          Subjectiveness goes both ways though.

          You can be happy with the current state of the game and that's fine but there is nothing wrong with pointing out deficiencies or asking for more either.
          Yes, absolutely. Constructive criticism I am absolutely okay with and I have plenty of my own to offer on the topic of Madden.

          However, the continued resurrection of ghosts in this forum to the detriment of any and all otherwise-positive discussions about Madden - however few of them exist given how much vitriol there is in this community - is not productive to this discussion, in my opinion. It's very clear to me that no one at EA Tiburon is looking at those older football games for example or inspiration anymore; those games are not relevant in the modern sports gaming landscape, and I did not enter the Madden forum with the intent of discussing games not named Madden.

          Comment

          • bucky60
            Banned
            • Jan 2008
            • 3288

            #305
            Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

            Originally posted by CM Hooe
            It's very clear to me that no one at EA Tiburon is looking at those older football games for example or inspiration anymore; those games are not relevant in the modern sports gaming landscape, and I did not enter the Madden forum with the intent of discussing games not named Madden.
            So you're closed minded to other peoples opinions, even when they have visual evidence supporting their opinion.

            Comment

            • strawberryshortcake
              MVP
              • Sep 2009
              • 2438

              #306
              Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

              Originally posted by Jerros
              Not sure if its been already said but, the simple truth of it is Madden will never ever be the game we want it to be. I thought it was amusing when Rex Dickson kept saying they are chasing simulation. Madden will NEVER EVER be a simulaition of football for one reason. It's core audience. There are way too many people who know nothing about football's true fundamentals and football logic. Let's keep something in mind. Madden is not only played by grown men but you have teenagers, pre-teens and kids that play it. It would be stupid business practice to alienate your core audience. Those very same people are the main reason Madden will not and can not change. They want the game to be somewhat arcadey. They want to be able to spam the same money plays over and over. They want the broken A.I. and broken penalty system. This is the sad truth of it. You will NEVER EVER get the Madden game you want. EA is not in the business of losing money. And as much as I hate to say it, we the gamers who are geared more towards simulation are not the majority. 2k was ahead or their time and they were bold to make a game geared more towards real football logic. I applaud them for that but I'm telling you, the core audience for Madden who supports the game as is does NOT want a sim. There are too many variables and risk for EA to suddenly make that leap. That isn't to say they won't add little things here and there that are sim-like. But overall, the game will remain mostly arcadey. Why do you think they gave us defense but added all the arcade button prompts. The Tiger Woods kicking arch? A real sim doesn't need that crap. But, they have to have something to counter balance things whenever they do add something too close to the real thing. It's sad but that is the bottomline, Unless some company is bold enough to make a generic game that can be customized and actually gives EA some competition, the game will NEVER change. We will only see bits and pieces. And whats even worse, the bits and pieces we're getting this year are from older games. Backbreaker camera angle on Defense. The power meter button that was originally used in 2k on offense, and the overall Defense theme that was the same EXACT them in 05 when the Ravens were the SB champs. Been there, done that.
              As a gamer that played NES, SNES, and ultimately stopped until I stumbled onto MLB the Show 09 on my buddy's PS3, from what I have read, doesn't Madden on the PS2/xbox offer a more simulation experience compare to the 360/PS3 offerings? Didn't the PS2/xbox Madden "simulation" versions sell quite a boatload? Did they also sell more than the PS3/360 versions? Did pre Madden 05 sell more than post Madden 05?

              If and only if the PS2/XBOX was more simulation, why do people keep saying that EA Madden will forever cater to the casual arcaders? Doesn't the PS2/XBOX era say differently and that simulation can be marketed and sold to casual gamers?

              Unless of course I'm mistaken and Madden never truly offered a simulation experience ever. Just curious.
              Fixes
              NBA2k Defense AI,Footplant, Gameplay
              MLB Show Pitching/throwing
              Madden/Live Animations Walking, Throwing

              Comment

              • 24
                Forever A Legend
                • Sep 2008
                • 2809

                #307
                Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                Originally posted by strawberryshortcake
                As a gamer that played NES, SNES, and ultimately stopped until I stumbled onto MLB the Show 09 on my buddy's PS3, from what I have read, doesn't Madden on the PS2/xbox offer a more simulation experience compare to the 360/PS3 offerings? Didn't the PS2/xbox Madden "simulation" versions sell quite a boatload? Did they also sell more than the PS3/360 versions? Did pre Madden 05 sell more than post Madden 05?

                If and only if the PS2/XBOX was more simulation, why do people keep saying that EA Madden will forever cater to the casual arcaders? Doesn't the PS2/XBOX era say differently and that simulation can be marketed and sold to casual gamers?

                Unless of course I'm mistaken and Madden never truly offered a simulation experience ever. Just curious.
                Madden has offered simulation experience. The PS2/Xbox generation made some real strides in simulation gaming. When Madden hit the first wave of next gen consoles, it started going downhill.

                Don't get me wrong, we had a brief resurgence with Madden 10. It had a couple of kinks but it was a great overall product. Simulation started taking a back seat once Ultimate Team began to take off.

                Notice Madden now. They put a ton of effort and work into Ultimate team. New collections are released constantly, New Legends cards keep getting churned out, they made draft cards of all the 1st rounders after the NFL draft etc. EA pours a lot of their resources into ultimate team. Why? Becuase it makes a ton of money. They will continue with this approach.

                They don't make a simulation style game because they don't need too anymore. We are the minority now. The majority of the fan base cares about MUT Content and things of that nature. Not to mention the new generation of Madden players don't even know what a simulation game is like. They've grown up on what Madden is today. They don't know how amazing the games of years past were because they either A)Weren't born, or B) too young to play video games, when those games came out.

                Madden 05 came out close to 10 years ago. No one but the older fans of the game know how awesome that game was.


                Comment

                • SamuraiX
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 91

                  #308
                  Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                  Originally posted by CM Hooe
                  Yes, absolutely. Constructive criticism I am absolutely okay with and I have plenty of my own to offer on the topic of Madden.

                  However, the continued resurrection of ghosts in this forum to the detriment of any and all otherwise-positive discussions about Madden - however few of them exist given how much vitriol there is in this community - is not productive to this discussion, in my opinion. It's very clear to me that no one at EA Tiburon is looking at those older football games for example or inspiration anymore; those games are not relevant in the modern sports gaming landscape, and I did not enter the Madden forum with the intent of discussing games not named Madden.
                  How is it not relevant when it's showing how to have smooth animations and better gameplay? I'm pretty sure that's gonna be relevant to football gaming for a while or at least I hope it is. And it's not really realistic to come into a thread about Madden's exclusivity with the license and not expect to hear about other football video games.

                  Comment

                  • GiantBlue76
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 3287

                    #309
                    Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                    Originally posted by 24
                    Madden has offered simulation experience. The PS2/Xbox generation made some real strides in simulation gaming. When Madden hit the first wave of next gen consoles, it started going downhill.

                    Don't get me wrong, we had a brief resurgence with Madden 10. It had a couple of kinks but it was a great overall product. Simulation started taking a back seat once Ultimate Team began to take off.

                    Notice Madden now. They put a ton of effort and work into Ultimate team. New collections are released constantly, New Legends cards keep getting churned out, they made draft cards of all the 1st rounders after the NFL draft etc. EA pours a lot of their resources into ultimate team. Why? Becuase it makes a ton of money. They will continue with this approach.

                    They don't make a simulation style game because they don't need too anymore. We are the minority now. The majority of the fan base cares about MUT Content and things of that nature. Not to mention the new generation of Madden players don't even know what a simulation game is like. They've grown up on what Madden is today. They don't know how amazing the games of years past were because they either A)Weren't born, or B) too young to play video games, when those games came out.

                    Madden 05 came out close to 10 years ago. No one but the older fans of the game know how awesome that game was.
                    Excellent post. I was going to touch on the bold, but you nailed it good sir.

                    Comment

                    • strawberryshortcake
                      MVP
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 2438

                      #310
                      Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                      Originally posted by 24
                      Madden has offered simulation experience. The PS2/Xbox generation made some real strides in simulation gaming. When Madden hit the first wave of next gen consoles, it started going downhill.

                      Don't get me wrong, we had a brief resurgence with Madden 10. It had a couple of kinks but it was a great overall product. Simulation started taking a back seat once Ultimate Team began to take off.

                      Notice Madden now. They put a ton of effort and work into Ultimate team. New collections are released constantly, New Legends cards keep getting churned out, they made draft cards of all the 1st rounders after the NFL draft etc. EA pours a lot of their resources into ultimate team. Why? Becuase it makes a ton of money. They will continue with this approach.

                      They don't make a simulation style game because they don't need too anymore. We are the minority now. The majority of the fan base cares about MUT Content and things of that nature. Not to mention the new generation of Madden players don't even know what a simulation game is like. They've grown up on what Madden is today. They don't know how amazing the games of years past were because they either A)Weren't born, or B) too young to play video games, when those games came out.

                      Madden 05 came out close to 10 years ago. No one but the older fans of the game know how awesome that game was.
                      So the argument that EA Madden largely wants to cater to casuals is not absolute. If the development team actually puts in the time and effort to better replicate football creating a solid simulation experience, and appropriately market it using terms and phrases that'll bait and hook casuals, it wouldn't or shouldn't actually turn off casuals would it considering it will be the only NFL game in town, right?

                      Simulation Madden can still revolve around MUT if that's what team EA Madden wants to do. Young kids these days pretty much can adapt to most video games, can they not? A simulation product could even strenghthen the brand.

                      Great marketing teams should be able to sell ice to eskimos, right? Great marketing teams should be able to sell a simulation experience to the casuals, right? Run exactly like Adrian Peterson, throw exactly like Tom Brady or Drew Brees, use Johnny Manzel and take the Browns to consecutive Superbowls, use your stick skills to overcome real football penalties. Run a 2 minute offense just like Peyton Manning. Demolish the competition using the Seattle Seahawk's defense. Shut out the competition and serve up a goose egg. See what a top running back sees. See what a top level QB sees. You. Are. In. Control. Isn't it just finding creative ways and word combinations to serve up simulation gameplay to the casuals?
                      Fixes
                      NBA2k Defense AI,Footplant, Gameplay
                      MLB Show Pitching/throwing
                      Madden/Live Animations Walking, Throwing

                      Comment

                      • mellamoaaron
                        Rookie
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 104

                        #311
                        Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                        People are overstating NFL 2K5's importance in football gaming. Yes it was a great game at the time it came out, I played it religiously for quite some time, but since Madden 12, EA has been creating a game that is, in my opinion, better than NFL 2K5. NFL 2K5 is great, but let's not act like the game is some sim masterpiece, because it isn't. It played a good game of football and I will always remember some of the crazy games I have played during my time with the game, but I have moved on. I, for one, cannot wait for Madden 15 and the experience I am about to have with it, Tiburon with all their faults have been trying to right this ship and they have done an admirable job since 2012.
                        Mets//Jets//Knicks//Islanders//Orange//Dodgers//The U//Fl. Panthers

                        Comment

                        • dkp23
                          Rookie
                          • May 2008
                          • 289

                          #312
                          Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                          Originally posted by mellamoaaron
                          People are overstating NFL 2K5's importance in football gaming. Yes it was a great game at the time it came out, I played it religiously for quite some time, but since Madden 12, EA has been creating a game that is, in my opinion, better than NFL 2K5. NFL 2K5 is great, but let's not act like the game is some sim masterpiece, because it isn't. It played a good game of football and I will always remember some of the crazy games I have played during my time with the game, but I have moved on. I, for one, cannot wait for Madden 15 and the experience I am about to have with it, Tiburon with all their faults have been trying to right this ship and they have done an admirable job since 2012.


                          Madden games that don't have real tacklng, real physics and enable zig zag arcade cut on dime running and warping wrs is not a good game.



                          Better than 2k5? Who knows but 2k5 had many things maddendoesnt have or took years for them to add. Ea taking their sweet old time each year. It goes all the way to when Ian was heading things, 3-yr plans. If 2k5 was still out, those three year plans go away and became need to innovate right now.



                          Remember when live was the dominant bball game? 2k didn't take that long to take over that market.

                          Comment

                          • hanzsomehanz
                            MVP
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 3275

                            #313
                            Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                            Originally posted by strawberryshortcake
                            Great marketing teams should be able to sell ice to eskimos, right? Great marketing teams should be able to sell a simulation experience to the casuals, right?
                            It would be more like selling steak to a vegetarian - g'luck with that.

                            I do not consider the entire toruney community to be absolitely against simulation systems to the extent they abhor it but I do feel it turns their sthomache some, like a vegetarian who breaks their diet years later.

                            These sects in Madden are almost akin to diet cults and religious cults. People need groups to identify with and some will join groups without even searching out their own feelings.

                            To this last point: I believe the casual gamer, who is neither talented enough for toruney nor smart enough for simulation, represents the middle man in every wave of Madden.

                            The casual gamer is neither at the top of the wave or the bottom so he will neither sink with disappointnent, nor surf with jubilation, nor swim to survive but simply go with the flow.

                            Naturally, novice users favor the course of least resistance and to this end I feel Madden can do more in their power to stop spoon-feeding success outcomes and implement a more empowering system that promotes and rewards users for their pro-like decisions and gives them a greater sense of genuine Football accomplishment.

                            [Spoiler]
                            There needs to be a ladder for success and this is something I could genuinely feel in Madden 05 and 06 for PC and it was because I felt more onus to respect the "rules" of the game.

                            I was a young user in 05-06 but I playd in a Sim league as well as ranked matches and was invited to the MUT tourney one year based on my head to head rankings.

                            I credit a lot of my success to the mini-camp drills that translated fluently to in-game enviornments and yielded me to have pocket presense, effective tackle steering etc; there was no ball-hawk to warp ints, their was no heat-seeker to warp tackles, there was no teethered passing, there was no ihop service that paved a drive-thru for me to run through - there was a lot of premise on Football fundamentals and true user skill.

                            I do not recall being nano'd nor did I know how because I could only move the player I was controlling: this was programed into me thru the Sim leagues but this practice did not impede my success.[/
                            Spoiler]

                            Instead of scaling back the rules that govern movements and fumdamental techniques such as passing and rushing: we need to refine the rules so they are less forgiving and serve as boundaries to stay within the very paths that shape our success.

                            I see the current Madden team somewhat steering this way and can appreciate the direction of focus albeit proof will be in the gameplay experience.

                            Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk
                            Last edited by hanzsomehanz; 06-17-2014, 07:00 PM.
                            how could I lose? im playing by my own rules..

                            Comment

                            • Gridiron
                              Banned
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 418

                              #314
                              Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                              Originally posted by FaceMask
                              I'm not familiar with DrJones, but him working for EA is a separate matter from what his involvement was--if any--in the drafting, negotiation, signing and keeping of the contract in question. If he wasn't involved in that capacity, then that would make him an outsider on the matter just like the rest of us.

                              Until we see the contract (and we won't), we can't assume that this per unit thing was ever a thing. Not that per unit deals are uncommon, it's just that there is a lack of proof that this was the deal in this particular matter with the NFL.

                              Extending onto that, there has never been a single known word from the NFL regarding having a problem with the price of NFL 2K5, so because of that this "NFL was mad about the price of 2K5" concept has to be considered conjecture. There is no proof. Without seeing the contract terms in black and white, there is no proof.

                              What's not conjecture is that EA had a big problem with the price of NFL 2K5 according to the Pecover documents.

                              So, no slight against DrJones, but I'm going to stick with what's been proven and what we can see in writing. It's the most logical option.
                              That's what I'm sayin. Nobody showing up to these message boards were in on the contracts or had anything to do with their signing or the terms. Everything they've heard is second-hand because they had nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people debate against facts with opinions? EA cared, there is nothing to show the NFL did. It's as simple as that. Why can't dudes accept that?

                              Comment

                              • kehlis
                                Moderator
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 27738

                                #315
                                Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

                                Originally posted by Gridiron
                                That's what I'm sayin. Nobody showing up to these message boards were in on the contracts or had anything to do with their signing or the terms. Everything they've heard is second-hand because they had nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people debate against facts with opinions? EA cared, there is nothing to show the NFL did. It's as simple as that. Why can't dudes accept that?
                                DrJones was involved and is a very reputable source for this subject. Nothing he got was "second hand."

                                Comment

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