Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

It's absolutely incredible to me what goes on at Tiburon. I try as hard as I can not to think very poorly of their developers, but they keep forcing me to believe otherwise. I really believe Madden is developed in the twilight zone. How hard is it to include everything the NFL allows, and give the user the option to turn anything on or off AND adjust the sensitivity? I mean, what planet are we on? It's absolutely amazing to me how a dev studio could be this inept and still be taken seriously.

[Segagendude]

That's part of the drama of football!!! "Touchdown!! But there's a flag on the field. Oh no! Offensive PI! Dammit!"

[MossMan84]

It's absolutely incredible to me what goes on at Tiburon. I try as hard as I can not to think very poorly of their developers, but they keep forcing me to believe otherwise. I really believe Madden is developed in the twilight zone. How hard is it to include everything the NFL allows, and give the user the option to turn anything on or off AND adjust the sensitivity? I mean, what planet are we on? It's absolutely amazing to me how a dev studio could be this inept and still be taken seriously.

I agree! It is hard to imagine why Madden is like 15-20yrs behind where they could be by now (maybe besides graphics but the rest of the game is stuck in the stone age.) There is no vision for this game when it comes to fundamentals and/or foundation work! Sometimes you can have a team full of talent but without proper leadership/coach it turns into dismay. Another problem that we can all clearly see, is the fact that the Madden dev team actually believes that the game is great every year? How can you make a great game when you have no clue what great is? Guarantee, you could take a bunch OSers an add them to the dev team for a cycle and the game would be a way better all around but hey look on the bright side, we will probably have colonies on mars b4 Madden has working penalties/sliders and i just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance.

[Fist Of Kings]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

Is it fair to question the type of talent Tiburon studios has in the bullpen? Because I think they're really weak. They haven't pumped out supreme quality since 05.

I think it's fair. When you're the only company that can make football games and they regularly ship out games with legcay issues and then add new problems to it, people are going to be more critical of it.

I've bought so many of these games, both NCAA and Madden and most have been bad/mediocre imo. I still have Madden 05 on my ps2, and despite it's age it has little details that are missing in this year's game, sadly better commentary, and penalties that actually work. I wish someone from EA would let us know why they thought making penalty sliders effect some penalties and gameplay when they should be separate. It's just a mess right now, and we're left trying to figure out which slider does what.

[NimitsTexan]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

Penalty options and sliders for offline are fine, but I'd rather them keep it out of online. NBA 2K has implented things like bad passes and "realistic" fg% and it has completely killed any competitive feel to online play. I'd hate to be playing online, stop someone on a crucial 4th and 10 just to have a pass interference called just because the game thought it needed a penalty for realism.

Posts like this almost make me want to get out and buy NBA 2K (despite the fact I generally abhor professional basketball).

I would not be surprised if that is the attitude of many online players . . . and that is one of the prime reasons I chose to avoid it. If there were a chance that penalties (as well as bad snaps, bad throws, etc.) would affect online games significantly, I'd be more interested. I want a football sim, not just an arcade game that vaguely resembles football.

[teeteegardner]

i gave up on the game and the series.. i prob wont ever buy another madden , its just not designed for hardcore NFL fans, and thats ok , but its just not my style of sim/arcade i want to play. Ever since the big switch to these last gen current gen, they have failed ...PS2 was the glory days of the series, face it guys its dieing.

[kidanything2]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

Posts like this almost make me want to get out and buy NBA 2K (despite the fact I generally abhor professional basketball).

I would not be surprised if that is the attitude of many online players . . . and that is one of the prime reasons I chose to avoid it. If there were a chance that penalties (as well as bad snaps, bad throws, etc.) would affect online games significantly, I'd be more interested. I want a football sim, not just an arcade game that vaguely resembles football.

It sounds good when you say words like realistic, but it's really painfully frustrating in practice. I had a guy let me shoot threes with no one on me, and I didn't hit anymore threes then if he played real d. He would take the guy who's guarding the guy with the ball and just run him down low, leaving the guy wide open. I wound up playing the guy twice, hit 39% in one and 44% in the other. I'm guessing a real NBA team would hit closer to 70. Being a video game I would like to see it closer to 80. The only reason I didn't hit more was because the game goes out of its way to keep % realistic. How is that a good thing? What reason does he have to not play D like a donkey? As far as bad passes go, its also completely out of your control. I'm running up the middle, the guy is running up the sideline, both at a slow, controlled pace, and the pass sails out of bounds due to nothing I could control. If you have any competitive spirit, you'd see how this is a bad thing. You play a bunch of games, win some, lose some, with 80% of the decisions being about randomness and not about skill. What's the point of playing? I don't feel good when I win, I don't feel like I need to get better when I lose. I just start another and see what happens. Like a spectator.

Same thing could happen with penalties in Madden. You happen to get 8 PI calls all at crucial times, he gets 2 and he wins the game based on that. Again, how is that good, and what is the point of playing if the outcome is out of your hands? Or what if you're playing a guy, close game, 16-14, you kick a fg to win, but there's a holding call moving you out of fg range and you lose. So the game just decided the outcome for you because it hasn't called an arbitrary penalty in a while. Maybe you think that's cool because it's realistic. My vote is that it takes away the reason to play: to see who's better.

All that being said, that's just my opinion about competitive modes. I agree with everyone else saying the Tiburon team needs to step their game up. No reason to not have all the options for offline modes. Penalty on/offs, sliders, ratings sliders, ability to create/edit people in the middle of a franchise. No excuse for not having options.

[jfrost32]

The causal gamer lol Please EA dont use that excuse. It is simple to have penalties in the game, just have an option for the "casual" gamer to turn off the penalties if they want. What happend to giving the most authentic realistic version of a sport? If the casual gamer can't except that sports are hard then thats on them for not learning the game. Same goes for your fifa title. Taking out handballs because of the casual gamer when I know most of your buyers who buy that game are die hard soccer fans.

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

It sounds good when you say words like realistic, but it's really painfully frustrating in practice. I had a guy let me shoot threes with no one on me, and I didn't hit anymore threes then if he played real d. He would take the guy who's guarding the guy with the ball and just run him down low, leaving the guy wide open. I wound up playing the guy twice, hit 39% in one and 44% in the other. I'm guessing a real NBA team would hit closer to 70. Being a video game I would like to see it closer to 80. The only reason I didn't hit more was because the game goes out of its way to keep % realistic. How is that a good thing? What reason does he have to not play D like a donkey? As far as bad passes go, its also completely out of your control. I'm running up the middle, the guy is running up the sideline, both at a slow, controlled pace, and the pass sails out of bounds due to nothing I could control. If you have any competitive spirit, you'd see how this is a bad thing. You play a bunch of games, win some, lose some, with 80% of the decisions being about randomness and not about skill. What's the point of playing? I don't feel good when I win, I don't feel like I need to get better when I lose. I just start another and see what happens. Like a spectator.

Same thing could happen with penalties in Madden. You happen to get 8 PI calls all at crucial times, he gets 2 and he wins the game based on that. Again, how is that good, and what is the point of playing if the outcome is out of your hands? Or what if you're playing a guy, close game, 16-14, you kick a fg to win, but there's a holding call moving you out of fg range and you lose. So the game just decided the outcome for you because it hasn't called an arbitrary penalty in a while. Maybe you think that's cool because it's realistic. My vote is that it takes away the reason to play: to see who's better.

All that being said, that's just my opinion about competitive modes. I agree with everyone else saying the Tiburon team needs to step their game up. No reason to not have all the options for offline modes. Penalty on/offs, sliders, ratings sliders, ability to create/edit people in the middle of a franchise. No excuse for not having options.

Just my take on some of what u said regarding penalties..I understand ur point but..the penalties shouldn't just be random..they should be caused by poor play or inexperience..meaning if ur using a team with DB's and LB's with poor coverage skills or/including young players this should cause more PI calls..same goes for if u have players out of position covering WR (ie WR on LB)..along those lines u press a lot u only looking to be called for d holding or illegal use of the hands..they shouldn't just happen to happen..same with offense..if a O-Tackle is going against a speed rusher and is getting beat to the edge due to his slow feet he should hold causing the flag to be thrown


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[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

Just my take on some of what u said regarding penalties..I understand ur point but..the penalties shouldn't just be random..they should be caused by poor play or inexperience..meaning if ur using a team with DB's and LB's with poor coverage skills or/including young players this should cause more PI calls..same goes for if u have players out of position covering WR (ie WR on LB)..along those lines u press a lot u only looking to be called for d holding or illegal use of the hands..they shouldn't just happen to happen..same with offense..if a O-Tackle is going against a speed rusher and is getting beat to the edge due to his slow feet he should hold causing the flag to be thrown


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Or how about online ranked lobbies that have settings for different styles, like a simulation setting. Imagine that line of thinking.

There is no hope for this game.

[therewillbechud]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Continues A Long Tradition of No Penalties

The complaints I've seen about NBA 2k in this thread do more to highlight why we don't have penalties called than anything. I want penalties and can live with the consequences of having them. I can live with bad snaps, random kicking anomalies so I don't make it every single time from 50+, guys running the wrong routes causing me to throw an INT, you know random football stuff that happens.

But the run of the mill user, even one interested in sim football, would throw a complete fit if they lost (especially online) because of something they can't control. That's the thinking behind the lack of penalties, and they'd probably catch just as much grief for having them as not.

Sacrifices need to be made in the constant balance of gameplay vs realism. I don't think offering a close to 100% realistic experience is beyond them, but I do think it's something they don't want to do.

Is it that they're not sim enough or is it that the sim guys are just notoriously the most difficult to please? If they catered to that crowd, they're not going to shut anyone up, in fact it'll probably just get worse, and make sim players feel more entitled.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Penalty sliders change game play FAR more than they change penalty call frequency. It is a sad aspect that really can't be undone.

For example: You want the CPU QB to take more shots down the field and have better pocket presence? Increase intentional grounding to 80+.

Does this increase intentional grounding penalties? Not one bit. I have literally not seen one intentional grounding penalty since I changed this slider, but I have seen a dramatic increase in medium and deep pass attempts by the CPU.


That is the problem with Madden penalties. It is all animation based. The penalty sliders just increase the chances of particular animations associated with penalties playing. They need to COMPLETELY SEPARATE penalties from generic game play animations and until they do penalties will be broken.

The upside of this relationship however, is that we can use penalty sliders to make game play more realistic.

For example, see this thread:


http://www.operationsports.com/forum...y-sliders.html

[CHAPEdawg45]

I think it's fair. When you're the only company that can make football games and they regularly ship out games with legcay issues and then add new problems to it, people are going to be more critical of it.

I've bought so many of these games, both NCAA and Madden and most have been bad/mediocre imo. I still have Madden 05 on my ps2, and despite it's age it has little details that are missing in this year's game, sadly better commentary, and penalties that actually work. I wish someone from EA would let us know why they thought making penalty sliders effect some penalties and gameplay when they should be separate. It's just a mess right now, and we're left trying to figure out which slider does what.

I like to think a game that has to be reliant on sliders for a really good experience is kind of weak. Now with that said, I don't hate sliders. I like the ability to tailor any person's game to their own liking. But I'd like to have it where you don't need to adjust it so drastically in order for it to do so. That isn't the case for Madden. You'll see piles of slider sets to try and get a realistic and fun game. Most work to an extent until it's bogged down by the ever present legacy issues. I just don't get how this stuff doesn't get fixed knowing that this WHOLE community, and the nation, is football crazy and can pick out what doesn't represent the game how it should. We shouldn't have to settle for it ya know?

[rtkiii]

I think EA is just playing safe. When I play against my son(14) he is happy that penalties are not called. My brother-in-law is the same way(35) - he does not play enough and just does not like it when penalties are called. Just wants to play and have fun. And I do think a majority of users feel this way - believe it or not we are the minority. When we post here at Operation Sports it would seem like we are not but surprise surprise this is a hardcore sports site, so we are all going to agree penalties need to be better. But we are 3500 users, on a good day here at Operations Sports, Madden sells 500K+ a year...do the math.

Now with all that I do believe EA needs to put in options to allow, No Penalties called, some Penalties called or NFL Penalties called(which would be more simulation based) - I do not understand why they cannot do that.

[charter04]

It's simple. Give a slider for every penalty in football. Make the sliders actually work. Fix them so they don't affect the gameplay. They should only cause more or less of said penalty. Tie the likeliness of them to the players awareness or a discipline rating. They can even have them off for online ranked and MUT. Just give us options. It's not not that complicated.