Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

If Madden had a proper system where logical causes and effects happen it would naturally train players to understand why some thing work and others don't. Too often the outcome is fairly random and has very little to do with play calls. Why did I get stuffed on run play? Was it because my lineman just completely whiffed on a block or did he just go brain dead and block the wrong guy? There's too many variables from ratings to the engine just calling apart in certain situations to bad ai programming to realistically teach someone football fundamentals.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

If Madden had a proper system where logical causes and effects happen it would naturally train players to understand why some thing work and others don't. Too often the outcome is fairly random and has very little to do with play calls. Why did I get stuffed on run play? Was it because my lineman just completely whiffed on a block or did he just go brain dead and block the wrong guy? There's too many variables from ratings to the engine just calling apart in certain situations to bad ai programming to realistically teach someone football fundamentals.

Is that the purpose of playing a video game? I dont play Madden to learn about football fundamentals. When most people put Madden in they are not looking to learn about a 3 technique DT or what a rover is. They are looking to play a game and do stuff similar to what they see on TV. They want to throw bombs to Dez or truck people with Marshawn. They arent trying to learn what gap a outside LB is supposed to fill.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Is that the purpose of playing a video game? I dont play Madden to learn about football fundamentals. When most people put Madden in they are not looking to learn about a 3 technique DT or what a rover is. They are looking to play a game and do stuff similar to what they see on TV. They want to throw bombs to Dez or truck people with Marshawn. They arent trying to learn what gap a outside LB is supposed to fill.

This is probably true for the majority of people that buy Madden and most other sports games but that doesn't really excuse these games from not having game mechanics based on the sim aspects of said sport. While you may not play Madden to LEARN about football fundamentals I'm guessing you wish to play a game that is atleast BASED ON good football fundamentals. These games can still be fun for the average player while being based on the physics, principles, and concepts that make said sport what it is. I like Madden 15....which makes the issues I see with it that much more annoying

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Is that the purpose of playing a video game? I dont play Madden to learn about football fundamentals. When most people put Madden in they are not looking to learn about a 3 technique DT or what a rover is. They are looking to play a game and do stuff similar to what they see on TV. They want to throw bombs to Dez or truck people with Marshawn. They arent trying to learn what gap a outside LB is supposed to fill.

Lol... then let them play on rookie.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Lol... then let them play on rookie.

LOL. What if I want a challenge though? Guys, dont get me wrong. I want all the things that you guys want in a football game. I just think we should be realistic about what EA is willing to add and what they consider important.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Is that the purpose of playing a video game? I dont play Madden to learn about football fundamentals. When most people put Madden in they are not looking to learn about a 3 technique DT or what a rover is. They are looking to play a game and do stuff similar to what they see on TV. They want to throw bombs to Dez or truck people with Marshawn. They arent trying to learn what gap a outside LB is supposed to fill.

They can. It's called rookie difficulty. The difficulty system in Madden is flawed. The AI should be affected not the ratings in terms of difficulty. Playing on higher difficulty now is just learning how to game the game.

I think Madden should be a bridge between watching and playing. They should be able to take lessons they've learned in Madden and use them when watching a game to really understand and see why plays happen as they do. Even if they don't care Madden should abide by real world logic and movement. If someone wants to run 4 verts every play let them. Eventually they're gonna learn what coverage it works best against if it keeps ending up in picks. It should be a natural learning process.

Madden is afraid to punish the user for poor decisions but I think part of that is because EA knows their engine is too flawed to realistically portray a game of football.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

LOL. What if I want a challenge though? Guys, dont get me wrong. I want all the things that you guys want in a football game. I just dont think we should be realistic about what EA is willing to add and what they consider important.

If you want the challenge then bump it up to Pro. But the higher you go then you should at least have some concept of the fundamentals of the game.

Now I don't think you should have to go up to the board and draw up a Y2 Scat Banana or whatever Gruden calls it, but you should have a basic understanding of the game. There's no way you should be able to pop in the game at All-Pro and be able to compete with a solid player if you don't at least know the difference between an iso play or a zone, that's all.

If you just want to pick up and play, and hang 50 there should be a difficulty level for you. If you want something a little more challenging, but not something you have to spend time in a film room to succeed at then there should be a level for you. If you want something approximating the chess match that's played out on Sundays, there should be a level for that.

There are other games that do this. I know The Show, for instance, has the stated goal of (paraphrasing) "Our goal isn't to make the game easier. We want to teach you the game, but whatever your skill level there is a difficulty level where you can succeed and have fun."

And they have like 6 of them or something crazy like that. You got the lowest where the CPU throws nothing but meatballs down the middle, one where the CPU will just challenge you with offspeed, all the way up to Legend where you'll get corners painted on you and MIGHT get one pitch to hit an at-bat.


EDIT: I do agree with your last sentence. That right there is the long and the short of it. EA just sees this thing differently that I do. As oneamong noted, and we've seen this over the years, I just don't think they're willing to punish the user for poor play. It's an all-things-to-all-people approach. Skills trainer seems to indicate a willingness to go in a different direction but time will tell.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

The mob doesn't get a say in how the developer makes a thing; the artist paints what he wants. The mob can decide what a developer makes, however, by choosing not to buy or even entertain the products they aren't interested in or don't approve of.

This point gets somewhat skewed when a developer has what's similar to a monopoly. What you say is far truer when a customer has a choice between this or that instead of this or nothing.

You also seem a little sensitive. It's my humble opinion that someone saying they know it's a video game is no more patronizing then when someone says it is a video game, like somehow we don't understand this and need it explained to us. I guess patronization is more about how something is received/perceived and not really the original intent.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Is that the purpose of playing a video game? I dont play Madden to learn about football fundamentals. When most people put Madden in they are not looking to learn about a 3 technique DT or what a rover is. They are looking to play a game and do stuff similar to what they see on TV. They want to throw bombs to Dez or truck people with Marshawn. They arent trying to learn what gap a outside LB is supposed to fill.

If they're throwing bombs to Dez Bryant, a fundamental aspect of football would dictate that a receiver should try to actually catch the ball instead of watching it come down and hopefully it lands in their hands. Fighting for the ball as a receiver is fundamental. That's something I would think the completely non hardcore player would notice. Fundamental football isn't just the x's and o's. It's also technique and basic football logic and training. Madden is still at the pee wee level of concepts where it's basically run pass and block. Hope for the best. When I can hand my controller to my 4 year old son and he can complete a pass or get a few yards on a run by accident on all pro or all Madden something is wrong.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I am one of the people who liked Madden 15 alot and think its only a few features (WR/DB interaction, Penalties, Pre-play movement and out of game formation subs) from being considered realistic to me. I also think that compared to the game that was being produced by the last dev team, this game is much more realistic.

One of my big concerns is just how far away from realistic the franchise mode has become. They went in a such an arcade mode for franchise/CFM. My opinion is the last dev team didn't quite succeed, but at least their CFM was heading in a more realistic direction. This dev team took CFM in the opposite direction. Gameplay and Franchise are equally important to me. So when franchise "fails me personally", it's very disappointing to me.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

See this is where they **** up. Yes, most people wont want to play 15 min quarters in order to get realistic stats. But some people will so you should give them the option. That goes for everything else.

Most people dont want to deal with pass interference or holding calls but some do. So they should give us that option.

Amen. I always do 15 minute qtrs. Options, Options, Options.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

The big ticket item for NBA 2k was the new My Career mode story, My Park and My League (for the sim heads). Dont get me wrong. I would be ecstatic if EA removed that abomination they call CFM and gave us a franchise similar to My League. I love that NBA2k is more willing to throw sim fans a bone.

Amen again. You are on a roll. There are things I would like to see NBA2K change to make their franchise more realistic, but it is WORLDS more realistic than Maddens CFM. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat.

[Millennium]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

This point gets somewhat skewed when a developer has what's similar to a monopoly. What you say is far truer when a customer has a choice between this or that instead of this or nothing.

You also seem a little sensitive. It's my humble opinion that someone saying they know it's a video game is no more patronizing then when someone says it is a video game, like somehow we don't understand this and need it explained to us. I guess patronization is more about how something is received/perceived and not really the original intent.

You can argue points and views. Leave the attacks on personality and mod style of my staff out of your posts.

PM me if you have any issues.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

If they're throwing bombs to Dez Bryant, a fundamental aspect of football would dictate that a receiver should try to actually catch the ball instead of watching it come down and hopefully it lands in their hands. Fighting for the ball as a receiver is fundamental. That's something I would think the completely non hardcore player would notice. Fundamental football isn't just the x's and o's. It's also technique and basic football logic and training. Madden is still at the pee wee level of concepts where it's basically run pass and block. Hope for the best. When I can hand my controller to my 4 year old son and he can complete a pass or get a few yards on a run by accident on all pro or all Madden something is wrong.

I was thinking along this same line when reading some of the stuff about making the game more realistic is of little benefit to the less football savvy gamer. Like most excuses for why Madden is the way it is, this seems to fly in the face of reason, considering like you noted, it actually can make the game more accessible to that kind of player when their favorite or most recognizable players not only look but actually play like themselves in-game. Kind of jumping all over the place a bit but that's why some interest in MUT baffles me, with all the players playing pretty much the same aside from some minor differences like Speed, I wonder why people care about fielding some All Star Team or whatever. Maybe it's more about the aspect of collecting and trading cards, which I respect that many people have always enjoyed.

Anyway the general point is there is no downside to making the game as realistic as possible, that notion is a red herring. That's what's so frustrating at times because when deciding to add x into Madden, whether it will be designed to emulate real life should never be up for debate, that should be a given when creating a sports sim, what should be worked out however is the various UI and options for Users to access x, if applicable.

All that doesn't matter though because that's not the POV on which Madden is built. Madden isn't built to emulate football and have the User interact or delegate as they see fit, it's built to be some NFL branded version of a 1v1 real time strategy game. That's likely why the notion of a True Coach mode in Madden, which existed in NCAA Football, is such a foreign concept, they think most things the User isn't directly in control of, in real time, is trivial.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I was thinking along this same line when reading some of the stuff about making the game more realistic is of little benefit to the less football savvy gamer.

I think EA looks at it as it's little benefit to their profit line. The details are what separates an enjoyable experience and a memorable one. Madden is an enjoyable experience to me just not necessarily a memorable one.