We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

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  • bucky60
    Banned
    • Jan 2008
    • 3288

    #121
    Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

    Originally posted by CM Hooe
    The shoe fits just fine.

    Tiburon is making the game, not us. If they design the game to not allow editing players, that is their prerogative and they aren't wrong for building the game in whatever manner they see appropriate.

    In turn, you are not obligated to agree with the decisions they make and are not obligated to like the game they produce.

    This coming from someone who'd like to see CFM player editing return to the game as well. It's not make-or-break for me, but it'd be nice.

    True, they are the developers. But there is also poor design decisions that greatly limit consumer choice/options and good design decisions that provide consumer choice. You just need to look at other team sports video games for examples of providing consumer choice.

    There's also the unethical practice of removing features just to re-implement them in later years as brand new features. Which is different than say a basketball game removing something, getting feedback from consumers, and creating something even better the next release because of that consumer feedback "My League".

    So consumers end up unhappy and vocalizing that unhappiness. Hopefully this current group (Kolbe) will be different. But I haven't seen it so far, though 16 is his first year with CFM.

    Comment

    • Hooe
      Hall Of Fame
      • Aug 2002
      • 21554

      #122
      Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

      Originally posted by DMorganU44
      No way. Terrible analogy...

      How many players are in NFL with different equipments, bodies , hair type, skin color? In what way this fit with Mario´s game?
      If we're going to go the realism route to this argument: how many team owners can play God and magically make his players more athletic, more skilled, and change their names?

      Game development is art, the artist is free to create his game however he pleases. Nintendo is free to give Mario whatever colors and abilities they want, Tiburon is free to include or exclude whatever options they wish in Madden. If you don't like what a company is doing, you are free to purchase a different game or make your own game.

      While I´m not obligated (after the first year of CCM I just rent the game), I don´t have a option...
      You have the option to buy any other console video game on the market from which you think you'll derive more enjoyment. You also have the option to not purchase any video game at all. If you are limiting yourself to just football video games, that's a active and independent decision on your part.

      Comment

      • bucky60
        Banned
        • Jan 2008
        • 3288

        #123
        Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

        Originally posted by CM Hooe
        If we're going to go the realism route to this argument: how many team owners can play God and magically make his players more athletic, more skilled, and change their names?

        Game development is art, the artist is free to create his game however he pleases. Nintendo is free to give Mario whatever colors and abilities they want, Tiburon is free to include or exclude whatever options they wish in Madden. If you don't like what a company is doing, you are free to purchase a different game or make your own game.
        Wouldn't the best design decision be to make a team oriented sports video game as "reasonably realistic" as possible, and provide as many options/customization as reasonably possible? Other sports games seem to be able to do this.

        Originally posted by CM Hooe
        You have the option to buy any other console video game on the market from which you think you'll derive more enjoyment. You also have the option to not purchase any video game at all. If you are limiting yourself to just football video games, that's a active and independent decision on your part.
        Not another (choice of) NFL video game on the console. A real choice is this or that. This or nothing is not much of a choice. You forcing others to widen their scope of choice is an independent decision on your part. It makes sense to limit the scope to something relevant. That's what he was doing.

        Comment

        • Yukon46
          Football Fanatic
          • Sep 2009
          • 951

          #124
          Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

          Originally posted by CM Hooe
          If we're going to go the realism route to this argument: how many team owners can play God and magically make his players more athletic, more skilled, and change their names?

          Game development is art, the artist is free to create his game however he pleases. Nintendo is free to give Mario whatever colors and abilities they want, Tiburon is free to include or exclude whatever options they wish in Madden. If you don't like what a company is doing, you are free to purchase a different game or make your own game.

          You have the option to buy any other console video game on the market from which you think you'll derive more enjoyment. You also have the option to not purchase any video game at all. If you are limiting yourself to just football video games, that's a active and independent decision on your part.
          Really ? Really ? That's it.... that is our only options in your opinion ?

          This thread is the users trying to ask for something to be put into this game... why do you seem so opposed to us asking for it ?

          For that matter why are there so many users on these forums that come into threads about the users discussing and asking for something to be added to a game basically saying ..........

          "Shut up and be happy with what you have or dont buy this game !"

          No wonder these Dev's dont know what to put into a game.... their own fan base argue amongst themselves about basic stuff that should just be in a Career type sports game.

          I give.... it's getting ridiculous !

          Guess that means I should just find a new forum to go to ...since I wish it was not like that here !


          Comment

          • Hooe
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2002
            • 21554

            #125
            Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

            Originally posted by Yukon46
            Really ? Really ? That's it.... that is our only options in your opinion ?

            This thread is the users trying to ask for something to be put into this game... why do you seem so opposed to us asking for it ?

            For that matter why are there so many users on these forums that come into threads about the users discussing and asking for something to be added to a game basically saying ..........

            "Shut up and be happy with what you have or dont buy this game !"

            No wonder these Dev's dont know what to put into a game.... their own fan base argue amongst themselves about basic stuff that should just be in a Career type sports game.
            I'm afraid you've misunderstood my position.

            We can ask for anything we want. The developers certainly are listening to our feedback and balancing what we want against their own vision and goals for the game, that vision and those goals which are completely valid to pursue. However, they aren't obligated to give us what we ask for if they view it as lower priority compared to other things they have on the table.

            In turn, we have the option to not buy into the product of their vision or to produce our own competing vision.

            At no point have I said that I'm opposed to player editing in the game, in fact I've said the opposite.

            Comment

            • DMorganU44
              Rookie
              • Jun 2012
              • 89

              #126
              Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

              Originally posted by CM Hooe
              If we're going to go the realism route to this argument: how many team owners can play God and magically make his players more athletic, more skilled, and change their names?
              No time for fallacy...

              Game development is art, the artist is free to create his game however he pleases. Nintendo is free to give Mario whatever colors and abilities they want, Tiburon is free to include or exclude whatever options they wish in Madden. If you don't like what a company is doing, you are free to purchase a different game or make your own game.
              I´m not free, beause I don´t have an option in Football, period.

              Making my own game?!? Why I did not I think about this before?!?


              You have the option to buy any other console video game on the market from which you think you'll derive more enjoyment. You also have the option to not purchase any video game at all. If you are limiting yourself to just football video games, that's a active and independent decision on your part.
              My interest in video games are in sports games, only. And I'm exercising my options buying FIFA, NBA 2K and now The Show. But I love to play football and want do do it again.

              FIFA (mostly), NBA 2K are far from perfect, but they allow me lots of options, and I want to see it in Madden.
              Last edited by DMorganU44; 06-26-2015, 01:09 PM.

              Comment

              • msdm27
                Pro
                • Nov 2009
                • 956

                #127
                Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                "No time for fallacy" might just be the best response ever in this forum

                Comment

                • EricFreakingBerry
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 382

                  #128
                  Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                  Here's the deal, I'm not naive...and you can tell me I play both sides all you want and I don't care.

                  Do I think it's ridiculous that editing/customization has actually taken several steps back in the last decade when it comes to EA/Madden?

                  YES.

                  Do I want modes, options, features, tools, immersive CFM mechanics that make me question whether or not this is a game vs. real life?

                  YES.

                  But do I understand what EA deals with when it comes to trying to satisfy every type of gamer?

                  ALSO YES.

                  If I worked for that company and was in a position of power, I would want to cater to my demographics, too. Me being 35-years-old who bought his first Madden on a Sega Genesis and spent years as a teenager/20-year-old drowning in the back then basic season and early franchise modes, I realize that I am probably not the core demographic I would even be aiming for.

                  I would spend hours poring over Football Almanacs analyzing stats, reading football cards, and when I got to play as my favorite team(s) on Madden and Tecmo Super Bowl I would be excited as a kid on Christmas looking at statistics for MY players.

                  So now that I am 35 I want options. I want tons of them. I want to edit everything under the sun. I want the hood open pretty much, so I can put my greasy hands into the engine and tinker with it until it is purring perfectly the way 'I' want it to. Not the way H2H guys want it, or people who learn all the money plays every year, the way 'I' want it.

                  So I voice my opinion the best way I know how. With my opinion in social media, and with my money. Madden 10 and 11 I did not purchase. Madden 25 I did not purchase. Last year I had the most fun I've had in a CFM in a long time.

                  Yet there are HUGE detriments to that enjoyment sometimes. Bugs I've mentioned, lack of customization, horrible sim stats, no CPU vs. CPU, difficulty controlling 32 teams, lack of fleshed out CFM features like restricted FAs and practice squads. I could go ON and ON about what I want.

                  But at the end of the day, if I feel the developers care about MY experience with the game, I will purchase it. So far, the gameplay on M16 looks awesome. So far, things like combine stats and "rumors" of fixed regression have me intrigued.

                  So I understand that EA has an uphill battle. There have been a lot of excuses, turnover of creative teams, and just blatant omissions that should NEVER have made it through development. But yes, it's my only option for a "modern" football simulation. And when I put the disk in and I realize suddenly that 5 seasons have gone by in CFM in the blink of an eye, I realize that I still.....have.....fun.

                  But will I stop voicing my desires? Not a chance.

                  Comment

                  • Hooe
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 21554

                    #129
                    Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                    Originally posted by EricFreakingBerry
                    But will I stop voicing my desires? Not a chance.
                    To make myself clear, at no point have I suggested that people stop doing this.

                    I do find the vilification of a game developer for making its own creative decisions as to what it thinks is best for its game quite ridiculous, however.

                    Comment

                    • jeremym480
                      Speak it into existence
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 18198

                      #130
                      Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                      Originally posted by msdm27

                      I wouldn't care about the names so much if instead of 5 dudes named Captain in one draft, I'd get a dudes named: Captain, General, Sargent, Soldier and Admiral. It's ok to be original, just don't be repetitive or do things halfway

                      In the end, I just don't see the one downside with allowing customization... The reasoning can't be how it is not realistic when the whole mode is based off XP
                      Case and point:



                      If EA is going to continue force feeding us these draft classes with no option to change names, then the least the can do is give us some variety. I don't know how anyone could not want that, but apparently I'm wrong?


                      Originally posted by CM Hooe
                      If we're going to go the realism route to this argument: how many team owners can play God and magically make his players more athletic, more skilled, and change their names?
                      Real life isn't a video game, you see. That is why we get God View and can see all over the field as a QB or why we can switch to different players on defense.... It's a video game.

                      If we want to make every players rating 100 or 0 it shouldn't matter to anyone else. A certain level of editing and customization should be the standard for every sports game. I mean, I know it is for every other sports game that I play, so I'm not sure why Tiburon continues to ignore it.

                      Maybe some people are happy to play in EA's tunnel vision modes, but others want change... And if they do get it, then people who didn't want editing are free to continue not editing anything at all if that's their prerogative. Just give us the OPTION.
                      Last edited by jeremym480; 06-26-2015, 01:44 PM.
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                      • MajorSupreme
                        MVP
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 1559

                        #131
                        Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                        Originally posted by CM Hooe
                        To make myself clear, at no point have I suggested that people stop doing this.

                        I do find the vilification of a game developer for making its own creative decisions as to what it thinks is best for its game quite ridiculous, however.
                        Why must you speak like a scholar, old chap? "Vilification" he says haha.

                        Jokes aside, I'm with CM. And sadly this thread has turned into "what people want to hear vs. What is the actual reality." CM isn't straight telling people "buy it and get over it or don't buy it all." But there needs to be an understanding that these are the decisions that developers make. And though we may not agree with them, Lord knows I cry at night about some omissions, it is their game to make. And if it does not meet your standards, many other great companies would appreciate your $60.

                        Now, I think it is utter BS we can't fully edit players. Screw this whole "realism" argument, it comes a time to realize it's a video game, I paid money for it, I should play it the way I want (within confines of the game). I could do without name editing, but with usual ratings inflation in CFM, I'd love to be able to tune some guys down, especially players who hit 99 ovr in two years. So, in other words, I view it has helping to preserve realism, not break it.

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21554

                          #132
                          Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                          Originally posted by jeremym480
                          Real life isn't a video game, you see.
                          I'm well-aware of this fact.

                          If we want to make every players rating 100 or 0 it shouldn't matter to anyone else.
                          If I'm playing in an online CFM with you, I care a whole lot whether you edit your players ratings up to 100 and mine to 0. I care a whole lot about being able to see what people are editing what ratings and by how much, even if the commissioner is the only one allowed to edit ratings, as to make sure me or anyone else in the league is not being jobbed. I care a whole lot if for whatever reason the edits anyone makes corrupt the game save on the CFM server and end the league.

                          Now, obviously EA would implement some restrictions and safeguards against these things happening if and when they put player editing back in the game. But you see how this isn't as simple as just "opening up the interface" and allowing a free-for-all. It's something they are going to have to dedicate some time to, as CFM faces challenges that other games' franchise modes don't have with the always-online expectation.

                          Comment

                          • bucky60
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2008
                            • 3288

                            #133
                            Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                            Originally posted by CM Hooe
                            If I'm playing in an online CFM with you, I care a whole lot whether you edit your players ratings up to 100 and mine to 0.
                            I think it's pretty obvious people are talking about offline CFM, or any single player CFM.

                            Comment

                            • jeremym480
                              Speak it into existence
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 18198

                              #134
                              Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                              Originally posted by CM Hooe
                              I'm well-aware of this fact.



                              If I'm playing in an online CFM with you, I care a whole lot whether you edit your players ratings up to 100 and mine to 0. I care a whole lot about being able to see what people are editing what ratings and by how much, even if the commissioner is the only one allowed to edit ratings, as to make sure me or anyone else in the league is not being jobbed. I care a whole lot if for whatever reason the edits anyone makes corrupt the game save on the CFM server and end the league.

                              Now, obviously EA would implement some restrictions and safeguards against these things happening if and when they put player editing back in the game. But you see how this isn't as simple as just "opening up the interface" and allowing a free-for-all. It's something they are going to have to dedicate some time to, as CFM faces challenges that other games' franchise modes don't have with the always-online expectation.
                              I should have said that I was talking strictly talking about editing offline. I don't really care about editing for online leagues. However, IIRC the commish could edit any player in NCAA 14, so it's not like something that has never been done before.

                              With that said NCAA 14 wasn't always online so maybe it's time for Madden to "unconnect" each modes. I mean, we have had CFM for four games (counting M16) now and it seems like additions are coming at a slower pace now than they were before when we had Franchise.
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                              • SolidSquid
                                MVP
                                • Aug 2014
                                • 3159

                                #135
                                Re: We NEED to be able to CONTROL our CCM!

                                Originally posted by CM Hooe
                                I'm well-aware of this fact.



                                If I'm playing in an online CFM with you, I care a whole lot whether you edit your players ratings up to 100 and mine to 0. I care a whole lot about being able to see what people are editing what ratings and by how much, even if the commissioner is the only one allowed to edit ratings, as to make sure me or anyone else in the league is not being jobbed. I care a whole lot if for whatever reason the edits anyone makes corrupt the game save on the CFM server and end the league.

                                Now, obviously EA would implement some restrictions and safeguards against these things happening if and when they put player editing back in the game. But you see how this isn't as simple as just "opening up the interface" and allowing a free-for-all. It's something they are going to have to dedicate some time to, as CFM faces challenges that other games' franchise modes don't have with the always-online expectation.
                                But what about people like me who play online by themselves (way faster sim speed) and want to be able to edit ratings to reflect breakout players and the such? Are we to suffer bc we aren't the same as you?

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