Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying but you can use the playbooks for all 32 teams in 32 team control. All you need to do is download the playbooks to each profile. You would have to constantly hire and fire coaches and cut your created player depending on what team you are controlling.

That is a bit of an annoyance but the difference in playcalling by the CPU is worth it.

Yes it's annoyance but worth it!

Ya, I thought I read someone posted you couldn't do that for 32 teams which is why I was asking or clarifying but I might be wrong. Now that I think about it I think he was talking about schemes. So I guess my question is if we can set 32 player control and set all 32 teams up with playbooks can we also set schemes for each team? Run vs pass percentages, etc? If we can do both we could really create some great CPU AI playing teams.

[mooch49]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

So there is no way to do 32 team control and apply this and be able to adjust schemes for each team? I realize that's quite the undertaking but worth it in the end. I'm not sure I'd assign 32 teams all different playbooks but to be able to create and tweak 10 solid playbooks that you could apply to multiple similar playing style teams. Maybe set as realistic as possible for top 12 teams then have a few that you can assign to a few teams. Obviously eagles are one that needs their own style. I'm just thinking out loud what I'd probably do here. Lol sorry...

Okay, I figured it out. It just takes an extra step or two.

Here's what you do. First, use a real head coach when you create a character for the computer. Then go to the schemes section and make whatever changes you want. Then retire the coach. Create a character again, this time it'll be the player, preferably an undrafted QB. When you cycle to the schemes you will see that the changes you made before stick.

For example. I am about to play Arizona. I created a real head coach as the character. I then go to schemes. I changed their offense to Vertical. Then I retired the head coach. I now create a character again. This time it'll be a player. I then go to schemes to make sure my change sticked. But remember, once you create the player you can't make changes. In order to do so, you would have to retire the player, create a active head coach again, make the changes, retire the coach, and create a player again. I'm going to test to see if changing the schemes makes a difference in how the computer will use the playbook I assign them. Sorry if I'm not making much sense. It's really easy. But like I said in a previous post, you have to play around for a little while. You'll get the hang of it in no time.

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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Okay, I figured it out. It just takes an extra step or two.

Here's what you do. First, use a real head coach when you create a character for the computer. Then go to the schemes section and make whatever changes you want. Then retire the coach. Create a character again, this time it'll be the player, preferably an undrafted QB. When you cycle to the schemes you will see that the changes you made before stick.

For example. I am about to play Arizona. I created a real head coach as the character. I then go to schemes. I changed their offense to Vertical. Then I retired the head coach. I now create a character again. This time it'll be a player. I then go to schemes to make sure my change sticked. But remember, once you create the player you can't make changes. In order to do so, you would have to retire the player, create a active head coach again, make the changes, retire the coach, and create a player again. I'm going to test to see if changing the schemes makes a difference in how the computer will use the playbook I assign them. Sorry if I'm not making much sense. It's really easy. But like I said in a previous post, you have to play around for a little while. You'll get the hang of it in no time.

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No that makes total sense! That's awesome! I'm curious to see what you find if playing cardinals again like last night and the difference with same playbook with tweaks made to schemes. I'd have to think they would pick plays to pass and be more aggressive on different non throwing downs to equal out to 70% pass to 30% run if set to 70/30 give or take depending on game situation if CPU is down or not. Add to that making sure each down and distance has proper plays and stars rated properly.

I'm wondering if you had 10 plays on 1st and 10 at 5 stars. 4 runs and 6 passes all star rated the same I'd be curious how the CPU would call between these plays and if they mix it up. I think that would be key as opposed to setting 2 plays at 5 stars, 2 at 4 1/2, etc. because then I'd assume the CPU would call the 2 5 star rated plays way to much. At least I'd assume this is how this should work.

You streaming now?

[mooch49]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

No that makes total sense! That's awesome! I'm curious to see what you find if playing cardinals again like last night and the difference with same playbook with tweaks made to schemes. I'd have to think they would pick plays to pass and be more aggressive on different non throwing downs to equal out to 70% pass to 30% run if set to 70/30 give or take depending on game situation if CPU is down or not. Add to that making sure each down and distance has proper plays and stars rated properly.

I'm wondering if you had 10 plays on 1st and 10 at 5 stars. 4 runs and 6 passes all star rated the same I'd be curious how the CPU would call between these plays and if they mix it up. I think that would be key as opposed to setting 2 plays at 5 stars, 2 at 4 1/2, etc. because then I'd assume the CPU would call the 2 5 star rated plays way to much. At least I'd assume this is how this should work.

You streaming now?

Yeah I'm about to. Just taking a little break. If you watch my streams, you can tell I'm not very good, especially on offense. My stick skills stink. LOL. But to be honest, I am more interested when the computer gets the ball to see what plays they run and how aggressive they are. I'm actually enjoying doing this. Granted, I'm not enjoying losing. But I'm really looking forward to 16. Even though it looks very similar to 15, there are a lot of little things added which combined with this workaround should make for the most immersive and realistic Madden yet.

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[aholbert32]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

This is looking great guys.

Vann, I swear by your playbooks on NBA2k so I'm excited to see what you can do with Madden.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Yeah I'm about to. Just taking a little break. If you watch my streams, you can tell I'm not very good, especially on offense. My stick skills stink. LOL. But to be honest, I am more interested when the computer gets the ball to see what plays they run and how aggressive they are. I'm actually enjoying doing this. Granted, I'm not enjoying losing. But I'm really looking forward to 16. Even though it looks very similar to 15, there are a lot of little things added which combined with this workaround should make for the most immersive and realistic Madden yet.

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Lol! To be honest every time you get the ball I hope you turn it over or I turn off and come back in a few minutes! Lol! All I was watching was CPU plays called and then wait to see what play they called after the play is over. I find it interesting to see. Id really like to see this go hand in hand with schemes and playbooks though so it's hard for me without seeing them both. Thanks so much for doing this! Much appreciated!

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Gentlemen! I got it working!!

I noticed the game kept crashing (PS4) when the 2nd user (CPU - Giants) team got the ball on offense.

That profile was using a backup DE. I switched over to a backup QB and that seems to have solved it.

For good measure I switched over to the Giants coach and also cut a player to make sure the roster remained at 53...not sure if that has something to do with it. Also tweaked the scheme for them to better reflect their strengths.

1/2 way through a tight game...guys, this is playing MUCH better! I erased every single curls and screen pass concept from their playbook. Took my time evening out playbook priority on 1-4th down...minus the sacks, this game is playing like a dream!!

The CPU is actually fun to play against. 3rd and 10 isn't a guaranteed sack anymore. I have to really read and react instead of worrying about the same tiring 4-5 plays.

Giants QB Shaun Hill just hit ODBJ in the back corner of the end zone and it was beautiful!!! He's currently 8 for 13.
Giants are running as much as they are passing.

I can't wait to see what we come up with for 16!!! Thanks again!!!


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[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

This is looking great guys.

Vann, I swear by your playbooks on NBA2k so I'm excited to see what you can do with Madden.

Thanks and I'm crazy OCD with this type of stuff and it really eats at me to see bad CPU AI, but I by no means know football like I do basketball. I think I'd be good at getting the right variety in different play calls and right variety between run versus pass and I think I could find the right sets but guys like pgaither84 would be the guys I'd like to see do a few books.

Which makes me think we should start a playbook thread with guys focused on a team of their choice. I usually do this for the Seahawks and uploaded 1 last year with plays the Hawks ran when they had Percy Hardin. But I never went into detail with down and distance and star ratings as I just did it for me to use and I select all my plays without choosing CPU suggestions and what not.

Anyways, I'm not promising anything or the type of detail I did with nba2k. That took me hundreds of hours and I watched and took notes on not just real basketball games but every play in the game. I know football but not like a lot of you guys do here. Reading Gaithersburg posts I'm like wow! I can't see doing that for nfl. But like I mentioned earlier I'll probably do like the top 12 teams in the league or teams like Eagles with unique playbooks. Then I'd probably assign similar play style books to a few teams each for the bottom half of the league.

My main teams I'd really want to focus on would be....

Seahawks
Eagles
Broncos
Patriots
Packers
Colts
Cowboys
Pittsburgh
San Diego
San Francisco
Arizona
St. Louis
Atlanta
New Orleans
Detroit
Cincinnati
Baltimore
Kansas City
Giants

Then maybe because of qbs

Carolina
Tennessee
Washington


I just realized that's 22 teams lol! Good lord at that point might as well do 32 but let's say Cleveland and Chicago had similar styles I would probably just use same book. I just really want the top elite teams to play like themselves.

Who knows, I'm just excited to test this and mess with it! If I got 1 more sack of the CPU running a curl route and not passing it I was going to break my disc!!! This is best news I've heard for madden yet IMO...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Gentlemen! I got it working!!

I noticed the game kept crashing (PS4) when the 2nd user (CPU - Giants) team got the ball on offense.

That profile was using a backup DE. I switched over to a backup QB and that seems to have solved it.

For good measure I switched over to the Giants coach and also cut a player to make sure the roster remained at 53...not sure if that has something to do with it. Also tweaked the scheme for them to better reflect their strengths.

1/2 way through a tight game...guys, this is playing MUCH better! I erased every single curls and screen pass concept from their playbook. Took my time evening out playbook priority on 1-4th down...minus the sacks, this game is playing like a dream!!

The CPU is actually fun to play against. 3rd and 10 isn't a guaranteed sack anymore. I have to really read and react instead of worrying about the same tiring 4-5 plays.

Giants QB Shaun Hill just hit ODBJ in the back corner of the end zone and it was beautiful!!! He's currently 8 for 13.
Giants are running as much as they are passing.

I can't wait to see what we come up with for 16!!! Thanks again!!!


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That's so awesome! Love it!

I can now only imagine this game with the fbg rated rosters and these schemes and playbooks done! Pure gold! Could you imagine if EA understood how putting resources into properly rated players and team playbooks and schemes what a difference maker that would be for their game? It just would add so much more realism and go back to their motto "if it's in the game it's in the game"... 1 day I hope but at least we have tools to edit! Now if they give us cfm editing ability with draft class editing ability I'd be ecstatic!

[capa]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

You could even expand the concept to develop some classic team Playbooks...like the old Packers Lombardi book with a few sweeps and lots of runs, or air Coryell with deep routes, etc. Even creating "concept" playbooks for older teams like 1960s-1970's Run Heavy books as an example.

I know some of these concept books are already in the game but even the run heavy books are loaded with too many passes and especially on first down shotgun type stuff.

Just a thought...

C

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

You could even expand the concept to develop some classic team Playbooks...like the old Packers Lombardi book with a few sweeps and lots of runs, or air Coryell with deep routes, etc. Even creating "concept" playbooks for older teams like 1960s-1970's Run Heavy books as an example.

I know some of these concept books are already in the game but even the run heavy books are loaded with too many passes and especially on first down shotgun type stuff.

Just a thought...

C

Something similar to this is what I had planned a couple years back with not only the regular coaches but even more so the imaginary coaches. Being able to create unique playstyles for these imaginary coaches would add a ton to CFM. Making a "Pound The Rock" smash mouth playbook or an overly pass heavy, air it out all the time type book. Just stuff that you'd never get to see otherwise. It's just a shame that it has to be such a painstaking process to make it work when it seems like something so simple to make sure or make it available to load in custom playbooks by default so you could change them at the scheme menu and get them to work easily.

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Last night I had a blast playing against Seattle. I set their scheme to power run...they were on point! Lynch was tearing it up and Wilson ran a 55 yard option keeper for a TD...it was beautiful. Only sacked him twice.

I figured out the reason why the game crashes: it's tied to roster spots. If you create a player without first cutting another guy from that team, if you're over 53 the game will crash once that team takes the field on offense.

Glad I figured out what was going on.

Also I spent some time going through the default Playbooks the CPU uses...no wonder you rack up so many sacks. They are SEVERELY limited with situation game planning. Meaning they only have about 10 unique plays rated for 3rd and long. And most of them are vertical concepts the AI can't execute properly.

On top of that, many playbooks I'm pulling up HEAVILY rate Curls/Curl Flat concepts...which almost ALWAYS result in a sack because once the CPU completes its routes, it stops and stands around instead of trying to get open.

The more I look at this the more I see why Madden is a sackfest.


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[mooch49]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Just played the Bengals. Have never seen the computer pass so much. Granted I was playing 15 minute 20 second rundown. Plus they were down most of the game. But Dalton passed 60 times for a little over 400 yards. He even went very deep 2 consecutive times. It was a thing of beauty. I held on for the win 20-13, but this AI custom playbook fix really makes the game shine. If done right, it's truly a game changer. It's just too bad I came across this workaround a year too late, at least in regards to 15 because the two complaints of the game was too many user sacks and conservative AI playcalling. This fix tones the sacks somewhat and all but eliminates the dinking/dunking and repetitive playcalling of the computer.

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[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

Just played the Bengals. Have never seen the computer pass so much. Granted I was playing 15 minute 20 second rundown. Plus they were down most of the game. But Dalton passed 60 times for a little over 400 yards. He even went very deep 2 consecutive times. It was a thing of beauty. I held on for the win 20-13, but this AI custom playbook fix really makes the game shine. If done right, it's truly a game changer. It's just too bad I came across this workaround a year too late, at least in regards to 15 because the two complaints of the game was too many user sacks and conservative AI playcalling. This fix tones the sacks somewhat and all but eliminates the dinking and dunking of the computer.

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Yeah it definitely tones down the sacks and gives the CPU MUCH more variety. Better late than never my man!

Looking forward to seeing what the community creates for M16!

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Computer using custom playbooks in CFM

I'm very impressed with this find...I along with others been trying to beat this drum before that the play calling (star system) needs to be completely redone (or given some serious attention) to improve HUM vs CPU experience...I applaud you guys...hope to use this for M16


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