Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

[Incline]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Run/Pass commit work fine the way they are. Is it perfect? No. But name one thing in Madden that is.

I guess I could see modifying and improving it it to make it more realistic, but removing it all together would be a ridiculously stupid mistake.

I just can't believe at some of the arguments that some of you guys have for removing it: "I don't use it, so it needs to go." "Nobody uses it anyway."

Are you bloody serious? Anyone who says that nobody uses it knows NOTHING about Madden tourney play, or hell -- even online play. That's just being completely naive.

I guess most of you that want it removed would like the ability of user-catching to be removed as well, eh? That way skill is completely taken out of Madden, so you casual, franchise-only players will finally feel happy about yourselves, and all of us serious Madden players are left out in the cold. That's ultimately what you want, right?

[thudias]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Looks like this one won't be a slam dunk decision.

[ngoulding]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Run/Pass commit work fine the way they are. Is it perfect? No. But name one thing in Madden that is.

I guess I could see modifying and improving it it to make it more realistic, but removing it all together would be a ridiculously stupid mistake.

I just can't believe at some of the arguments that some of you guys have for removing it: "I don't use it, so it needs to go." "Nobody uses it anyway."

Are you bloody serious? Anyone who says that nobody uses it knows NOTHING about Madden tourney play, or hell -- even online play. That's just being completely naive.

I guess most of you that want it removed would like the ability of user-catching to be removed as well, eh? That way skill is completely taken out of Madden, so you casual, franchise-only players will finally feel happy about yourselves, and all of us serious Madden players are left out in the cold. That's ultimately what you want, right?

My problem with the run/pass commit feature isn't that it involves too much skill for my franchise loving brain to handle. After all it is just pressing the right stick up or down!

My problem is that it is a completely fictional Madden invention that has no equilavent in real football to justify it. Teams don't run or pass commit at the snap. Players go out to execute a specific play and adapt on the fly based on what they see and how much film they've studied. The whole team shouldn't react as one. Its all based on individual play recognition and instincts.

[The Sim God]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

move it to pre play
NOT right after the snap

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

I say remove it. What's the penalty for always committing to the pass? Anyone ever try an entire game of doing that exclusively? My defense seems to be fully capable of reacting to the run the same way they would've had I not pass committed...plus the playaction is almost completely eliminated because someone (usually a DE or LB) will go straight for the QB during the play fake.

Do you want to play me online and find out? I mean the risk isn't as big for doing run commit the whole game, but you usually give up 7-8 YPC, at the least.

Where is everyone getting the idea that the linebackers don't read the play right when it is snapped and call out PASS or RUN? The problem with doing it preplay, is that someone can easily audible into a run or pass and advantage offense. Defenses can read it at the snap.

[thelasthurtknee]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

I say remove it. What's the penalty for always committing to the pass? Anyone ever try an entire game of doing that exclusively? My defense seems to be fully capable of reacting to the run the same way they would've had I not pass committed...plus the playaction is almost completely eliminated because someone (usually a DE or LB) will go straight for the QB during the play fake.

i only play ncaa but i pass commit every single play. doesnt seem to hurt your run D, but helps big time in pass game. keeps the slots from running by safety's and playaction from killing you. run commit doesnt even make since to do because the risk is way to high. pass commit every play and your D will be twice as good. its garbage. told the guys in my league to start using this and guys went from having 12 to 20 ints a year to 40 on heisman. thats had much it works. there is not reason to not pass commit every play on NCAA. i dont like it, not realistic and makes no sense how its implemented. did like some of the suggestions in this thread. i also agree that it should really affect the LB's and DT's more than anyone else. left and right should be flow or roll coverage or both, that would be a risk reward that has balance. run commit should just make the lb's take their first step toward responsiblity in run game (which dont really exsist in this game) and pass commit should make your db's expect the pass. how you would do that i dont know. does it make the conservative not to get beat deep or more capable of jumping any route? db's being part of it dont really make sense unless your rolling coverage.

[Incline]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

My problem with the run/pass commit feature isn't that it involves too much skill for my franchise loving brain to handle. After all it is just pressing the right stick up or down!

My problem is that it is a completely fictional Madden invention that has no equilavent in real football to justify it. Teams don't run or pass commit at the snap. Players go out to execute a specific play and adapt on the fly based on what they see and how much film they've studied. The whole team shouldn't react as one. Its all based on individual play recognition and instincts.

And user picking someone is nothing but pressing Y (real tough, huh?). It still takes skill to pull it off consistently and not get burned.

There's not an NFL equivalent to a LOT of things in Madden. I really don't see how you can use that argument when talking about a video game.

If the AI was perfect, then I honestly wouldn't have a problem with removing it. But we all know that the AI sucks, and I doubt it ever gets to the point where you can count on the AI for anything. Let me, the player dictate how my players react. Not the stupid, unreliable AI.

You guys want to get rid of how fluky Madden 09 is, right? You don't do that by relying on AI to do everything for you. No, you have put things back into the hands of the person playing the damn game.

Run/Pass commit helps reduce the impact of ******** AI on the defense and puts more user skill into the game. If I'm lining up in a 46 normal and my opponent runs a toss, my ****** linebackers don't automatically play the ball to the left and make the tackle in the backfield.

But guess what? If I run commit to the left as soon as I see the QB starting to turn and toss the ball to that side, my entire D crashes to the left. That's user skill overcoming the idiotic AI and making the tackle in the backfield.

The same is true when my opponent is running a crapload of playaction passes without even running the ball once. If I bring heat and he runs a playaction pass without me pass committing, then the linebacker that shoots through will go after the RB, leaving the QB untouched. It happens every ****ing time, no matter how horrible my opponent's running game is.

However, if I pass commit, then I can just sit back and laugh at people who think they can run playactions all day, when they can't get more than 1 YPC running the ball against my D.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

i only play ncaa but i pass commit every single play. doesnt seem to hurt your run D, but helps big time in pass game. keeps the slots from running by safety's and playaction from killing you. run commit doesnt even make since to do because the risk is way to high. pass commit every play and your D will be twice as good. its garbage. told the guys in my league to start using this and guys went from having 12 to 20 ints a year to 40 on heisman. thats had much it works. there is not reason to not pass commit every play on NCAA. i dont like it, not realistic and makes no sense how its implemented. did like some of the suggestions in this thread. i also agree that it should really affect the LB's and DT's more than anyone else. left and right should be flow or roll coverage or both, that would be a risk reward that has balance. run commit should just make the lb's take their first step toward responsiblity in run game (which dont really exsist in this game) and pass commit should make your db's expect the pass. how you would do that i dont know. does it make the conservative not to get beat deep or more capable of jumping any route? db's being part of it dont really make sense unless your rolling coverage.

Yeah I don't agree there. In NCAA it doesn't even work proper.

[TJdaSportsGuy]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Do you want to play me online and find out?

Sure. Friend Request sent.

[LEGENDoflegends]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Do you want to play me online and find out? I mean the risk isn't as big for doing run commit the whole game, but you usually give up 7-8 YPC, at the least.

Where is everyone getting the idea that the linebackers don't read the play right when it is snapped and call out PASS or RUN? The problem with doing it preplay, is that someone can easily audible into a run or pass and advantage offense. Defenses can read it at the snap.

Exactly! People who saying remove it are probably not that good at the game(casual gamers). And people who saying make it "pre-play" simply don't understand the intent of the feature. I think the people who want the feature as is are your gamers who has actually played football, or they have a high madden IQ and understanding. Making it pre-play defeats the purpose of play recognition at the line of scrimmage. I don't use the run/pass commit option every play. But if I recognized a run play that you have been using all game based on the formation at the line of scrimmage, then I may start using the run commit, and vice versa with the pass.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Sure. Friend Request sent.

Ok. I was wondering who that was. I'll be on this evening. Make sure you use it every play too. We can play a few games to test it.

[ngoulding]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

And user picking someone is nothing but pressing Y (real tough, huh?). It still takes skill to pull it off consistently and not get burned.

If the AI was perfect, then I honestly wouldn't have a problem with removing it. But we all know that the AI sucks, and I doubt it ever gets to the point where you can count on the AI for anything. Let me, the player dictate how my players react. Not the stupid, unreliable AI.

Well al least with user picking there is the issue of timing so there is some skilled involved there!

But in all seriousness sorry if I came across pretty grouchy. I can't argue with your opinion. You're completely right that the a.i. has been horrendous and run/pass commit has been needed to stop them acting like complete morons. The only difference is I believe we shouldn't need a feature whose sole purpose is to overcome the ai. If I bought a triple A squad shooter where my a.i. teammates kept walking in front of me and getting killed unless I was constantly giving them basic orders (shoot, don't run headlessly at 20 terroists with ak's etc.) I'd be pretty pissed off.

If Madden 10 is to turn out as promised then I think these crutches (pass/run commit to make up for bad ai, lead blocker to make up for crap o-line play etc) need to be taken out. At least then we'd know what we really have and what needs to be fixed.

At the moment the game is being held together with band-aids and thats never going to lead to a really top quality title.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Get rid of it. Make it based on awareness.

[TDKing]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

In football don't players yell PASS PASS or RUN RUN when they recognize what the play is ? I kinda of look at the run/pass commit as something like that, players yelling run run .... Leave it in and add audio of players yelling pass or run when I hit the stick.

[LBzrule]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

I don't get it. Why would you want it pre-play? If defense, which it is, is about reading and reacting, why would you want to commit to something ahead of time that you haven't read/seen? This makes no sense to me. This is backwards. Do defenses load up on the run? Yes they do? But that's the front call, NOT the player behaviors. As I understand EA's run/pass commit, it controls player behavior. How are you going to decide ahead of time what the behavior of your players is going to be when you have not read the offensive play? That's too much guessing.