Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

[DLaren]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

How are you going to decide ahead of time what the behavior of your players is going to be when you have not read the offensive play? That's too much guessing.

You call it "guessing", I call it making an "informed decision" based on the opposing teams play-calling tendencies, their offensive personel, the down, and the distance.

[Bootzilla]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

In football don't players yell PASS PASS or RUN RUN when they recognize what the play is ? I kinda of look at the run/pass commit as something like that, players yelling run run .... Leave it in and add audio of players yelling pass or run when I hit the stick.

I was beginning to think I've been out of football too long because that's exactly the way I used the the run pass commit. As you read the play, players are yelling RUN!!!! or PASS!!!!!!!but, I do think the way the team reacts in unison especially vs. the run is a little unrealistic and too effective.

[LBzrule]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

You call it "guessing", I call it making an "informed decision" based on the opposing teams play-calling tendencies, their offensive personel, the down, and the distance.

yeah but there are situations that are very unpredictable and you will be guessing, because you will have none of that aforementioned information. What are you going to do on 2nd and 4-6 yards, one of the most unpredictable downs and situations in the game, on the first drive? I want to read and react to the play. I don't want my guys committing ahead of time. If we had game tape then we'd have a better understanding of play call tendencies, but we don't have that luxury.

Secondly, to me, having it pre-play grounds the game in a "tic tac toe formula," where if you guess right pre-play then you stop the play. I don't like that one bit. Of course one might say, well what's the difference, you still have to do the same thing after the snap and you will get the same result? The difference is after the snap, IF EA does their animations right, then I can eliminate 90% of the guessing. But that's only if they do their animations right. Also, I'm playing responsible defense by reading and reacting to what the offense is doing instead of guessing what they are going to do. To me a guessing defense is a terrible one.

Again, I'm looking at this from the perspective of player behavior. I don't want any of my players committing to anything before I can see what's going on.

[kcarr]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

yeah but there are situations that are very unpredictable and you will be guessing, because you will have none of that aforementioned information. What are you going to do on 2nd and 4-6 yards, one of the most unpredictable downs and situations in the game, on the first drive? I want to read and react to the play. I don't want my guys committing ahead of time. If we had game tape then we'd have a better understanding of play call tendencies, but we don't have that luxury.

Secondly, to me, having it pre-play grounds the game in a "tic tac toe formula," where if you guess right pre-play then you stop the play. I don't like that one bit. Of course one might say, well what's the difference, you still have to do the same thing after the snap and you will get the same result? The difference is after the snap, IF EA does their animations right, then I can eliminate 90% of the guessing. But that's only if they do their animations right. Also, I'm playing responsible defense by reading and reacting to what the offense is doing instead of guessing what they are going to do. To me a guessing defense is a terrible one.

Again, I'm looking at this from the perspective of player behavior. I don't want any of my players committing to anything before I can see what's going on.

For me I like the idea of being able to tell my D in the huddle or before the snap to watch for the run or pass. Yes, players do yell run of pass during the play but is that information relayed as strongly then as information relayed pre-snap? As a player I know I never sold out either way just because I heard someone yell run or pass during the heat of a battle trying to fight by way past a o-lineman. I pretty much knew where I was going before the ball was snapped and then adjusted from there based on what I saw as it is easy for anyone out there to yell out run or pass whether they are on offense or defense and I am more likely to trust what I can see.

I could see the yelling of run or pass during the play effecting the linebackers, and maybe some d-linemen but definitally not corners or safteties who are in deep coverage zones or anythings like that as they are going to have their own view of the play and normally go off of those reads.

Also, when I played it was in front of pretty small crowds but with the noise from the crowd and from the action on the field it could at times be tough to hear what was being said during a play. Pro stadiums are much louder so this will be even more true. If they are going to leave it it needs to be a much less effective thing.

[LBzrule]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

For me I like the idea of being able to tell my D in the huddle or before the snap to watch for the run or pass. Yes, players do yell run of pass during the play but is that information relayed as strongly then as information relayed pre-snap? As a player I know I never sold out either way just because I heard someone yell run or pass during the heat of a battle trying to fight by way past a o-lineman. I pretty much knew where I was going before the ball was snapped and then adjusted from there based on what I saw as it is easy for anyone out there to yell out run or pass whether they are on offense or defense and I am more likely to trust what I can see.

I could see the yelling of run or pass during the play effecting the linebackers, and maybe some d-linemen but definitally not corners or safteties who are in deep coverage zones or anythings like that as they are going to have their own view of the play and normally go off of those reads.

Also, when I played it was in front of pretty small crowds but with the noise from the crowd and from the action on the field it could at times be tough to hear what was being said during a play. Pro stadiums are much louder so this will be even more true. If they are going to leave it it needs to be a much less effective thing.

Which is why I really think this should just be for backers. Secondly, you hit the reason why I don't want it pre-snap. Yeah pre-snap I can say "watch" for the run, but "watching" is not "committing." To "commit" is to determine player behavior ahead of time. I don't like that. My blurb on player animations is key here. Linebackers have to read linemen as do Dlinemen. If the linemen stand straight up it cannot be but two things. Pass or draw. If they fire straight out we know exactly what it is. Read and react. That's how I want to play defense.

[DLaren]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

What are you going to do on 2nd and 4-6 yards, one of the most unpredictable downs and situations in the game, on the first drive? I want to read and react to the play. I don't want my guys committing ahead of time.

Secondly, to me, having it pre-play grounds the game in a "tic tac toe formula," where if you guess right pre-play then you stop the play. I don't like that one bit. Of course one might say, well what's the difference, you still have to do the same thing after the snap and you will get the same result? The difference is after the snap, IF EA does their animations right, then I can eliminate 90% of the guessing. But that's only if they do their animations right. Also, I'm playing responsible defense by reading and reacting to what the offense is doing instead of guessing what they are going to do. To me a guessing defense is a terrible one.

Again, I'm looking at this from the perspective of player behavior. I don't want any of my players committing to anything before I can see what's going on.

It's hard to have this discussion because I think a lot of us are looking at this possible feature from many different viewpoints.

You ask what will I do on 2ND down with 4-6 yards to go? Nothing...I most likely won't have my players commit either way, I'd be more inclined to let the play work itself out because we don't HAVE to commit either way. But I'd like the option to commit if I recognized a situation where I thought it would work in my favor.

If I'm playing the Vikings and it's 2ND & 4 and A. Peterson has been pounding my defense all game, I'd be likely to commit to the run (even though I might get burned on a Play action).

If I'm playing the Colts and it's 2ND & 7 and I have not been able to stop Dallas Clark or Reggie Wayne, I'd be likely to instruct my players to commit to the pass in order to keep them from biting on a Play-action (again, I might get burned with a draw, but I'd be playing the percentages).

The way I envision this feature working, we would not be forced to commit to anything at all. But we would have the option to instruct our players to commit pre-snap if we felt the need to.

[ghostlight85]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

After reading everyone's comments, I think what I want is not so much a pass/run commit preplay. I want a pass/run focus to call preplay, and I want pass/run commit removed. I don't think it should have anywhere near the effect that it has right now, because it's a really obvious, unified reaction by the whole defense.

What it should be is that you should be able to set a run stopping or pass coverage/rush mentality for each position group preplay, but the players will use their play recognition and awareness to determine how long they stay with that initial focus.

Also, players with high play recognition should call out run or pass once they have read the play and it should be audible to the user. This should be automatic and based entirely on the play recognition. There should also be a chance that surrounding players hear the call of run or pass and it could give a small boost to their own play recognition. Don't automatically commit them to run or pass, just up their play recognition.

As far as the idea of pass/run focus... I think that it would be very beneficial to the strategic side of things. As a player, you do know situationally what is likely to happen from the other team, and what you are going to look for first on a given play. On 3rd and long I want my defensive line to just rush the passer, don't worry about the run unless you see it. And if I'm getting beat up on the ground in a game, I might want to bring a safety up and keep him focused on stopping the run rather than coverage until he sees the QB drop back. It would add a whole level of strategy that you can dictate for the CPU to play out. This way you don't have to be the one controlling the safety you want as an extra man in the box.

[capp34]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

If you remove it dont make my defense fall for a play action on 3rd and 25. Otherwise leave it in as an option.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

If you remove it dont make my defense fall for a play action on 3rd and 25. Otherwise leave it in as an option.

Perfect point. I would hate for my guys to fall for the playaction when I know its coming, and not being able to tell my team PASS! it's not football.

When you play football you talk in the huddle on what to expect, and when the ball is snapped you yell out what u think it is. Everyone hears it, its not like everyone is 20 yrds apart. A defense is in a 10yrd radius, and its easy to hear when someone yells pass or run.

Just make it a option to have it on of off, I don't know why this was even brought to the table. Under game settings simply have.

Defense Commit: On or Off.

Also make it with the clicking in of the left or right thumb stick. Left stick is Pass , and Right stick is Run.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

I don't get it. Why would you want it pre-play? If defense, which it is, is about reading and reacting, why would you want to commit to something ahead of time that you haven't read/seen? This makes no sense to me. This is backwards. Do defenses load up on the run? Yes they do? But that's the front call, NOT the player behaviors. As I understand EA's run/pass commit, it controls player behavior. How are you going to decide ahead of time what the behavior of your players is going to be when you have not read the offensive play? That's too much guessing.

This is another perfect reason why it should stay the same, or make it a option in the game to to turn defense commit on or off, but it must take place after the snap.

[BezO]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

I don't get it. Why would you want it pre-play? If defense, which it is, is about reading and reacting, why would you want to commit to something ahead of time that you haven't read/seen? This makes no sense to me. This is backwards. Do defenses load up on the run? Yes they do? But that's the front call, NOT the player behaviors. As I understand EA's run/pass commit, it controls player behavior. How are you going to decide ahead of time what the behavior of your players is going to be when you have not read the offensive play? That's too much guessing.

Ideally, yes, you want your defenders reading their keys and reacting. In reality, players sometimes play hunches, tendencies, personal tip offs, ect. If players always stuck to their keys, draws, play action and most trick plays would never work.

IMO, a DE gets a jump on the snap & takes the corner because he committed to rushing the passer. That same anticipation creates a nice hole for a perfectly timed run off-tackle when he guesses wrong.

I want down, distance & ratings to create the mindset when I don't run/pass commit. But I want the option to control my team playing tendencies & hunches. I want to control my defense selling out to the run on 4th & goal, for example.

And I think this is a good opportunity to put more control & strategy in the users hands.

[BezO]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

yeah but there are situations that are very unpredictable and you will be guessing, because you will have none of that aforementioned information. What are you going to do on 2nd and 4-6 yards, one of the most unpredictable downs and situations in the game, on the first drive? I want to read and react to the play. I don't want my guys committing ahead of time. If we had game tape then we'd have a better understanding of play call tendencies, but we don't have that luxury.

Secondly, to me, having it pre-play grounds the game in a "tic tac toe formula," where if you guess right pre-play then you stop the play. I don't like that one bit. Of course one might say, well what's the difference, you still have to do the same thing after the snap and you will get the same result? The difference is after the snap, IF EA does their animations right, then I can eliminate 90% of the guessing. But that's only if they do their animations right. Also, I'm playing responsible defense by reading and reacting to what the offense is doing instead of guessing what they are going to do. To me a guessing defense is a terrible one.

Again, I'm looking at this from the perspective of player behavior. I don't want any of my players committing to anything before I can see what's going on.

When you don't want your players guessing, you wouldn't use the feature. Depending how well EA does, most good players won't be guessing much on 2nd & 4. But what about when you do want to guess? Sometimes that anticipation is the difference between stopping the run on 3rd & goal and a TD, or being in position against play action and getting badly fooled by it.

This is what I want run/pass commit to be... the user making the choice on a key 3rd & inches, against the Steelers for example. Do you sell out to make sure Ben doesn't fall forward for an easy 1st or do you play it straight? Now what if it's against the Eagles?

And I wouldn't want it to be automatic success when guessing correctly. What I imagine is much different than what's in game now. Check out my post a couple of pages back if you didn't see it.

[Bubstarr]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

The concept is pretty cool but the way it is currently implemented is a little cheesy. It should be canned.

[LEGENDoflegends]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

IMO, there is nothing wrong with the current run/pass commit concept. EA done a fantastic job with it and it's simply not broken and shouldn't be change. People are saying that only LB's should be part of a run/commit but in REAL LIFE, a FS or SS get faked out all the time and left out of position, thus getting burned because they thought they read 'run' at the line of scrimmage. So only the LB's being faked out may not be realistic, FS/SS get faked out to by thinking it's a run position and left out of position.

[kcarr]

Re: Need your opinions on Run Commit / Pass Commit feature

Which is why I really think this should just be for backers. Secondly, you hit the reason why I don't want it pre-snap. Yeah pre-snap I can say "watch" for the run, but "watching" is not "committing." To "commit" is to determine player behavior ahead of time. I don't like that. My blurb on player animations is key here. Linebackers have to read linemen as do Dlinemen. If the linemen stand straight up it cannot be but two things. Pass or draw. If they fire straight out we know exactly what it is. Read and react. That's how I want to play defense.

A player yelling run or pass during a play is also just another way of telling a player to watch for the run or pass. That player has no control over the other players to make them commit. This is why I really think there needs to be some tuning whether it is done pre-snap or post-snap. A player correctly yelling run or pass will not guarantee that a teammate will not be beat making the wrong call and a player incorrectly yelling run or pass will not guarantee failure by teammates. The other players play recognition needs to come in to play as well and sometimes should override the call.