Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

[Methlab]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Take Two or any other developers haven't put out a fully customizable game because the market simply isn't there.

Think about it, why the hell would EA pay a half a billion dollars for the exclusive license if other companies could compete with customization, but no license. Why would developers pay for licenses period, exclusive or not , if there was a market for unlicensed fully customizable games ?

Exactly.

[bkfount]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I really dont understand why people are just sitting here defending EA. Why wouldn't you want competition in the gaming industry seriously? I understand if you are in love with EA and are a loyal fan, but it just boggles my mind that people are defending and rooting for EA to win, its almost ignorant.

See, that's the problem with these lawsuit threads. Anyone that doesn't put these lawsuits on a golden pedestal for saving our sports gaming is somehow defending EA and hates fun. I was all for hating EA for taking my nfl2k away too, but I moved on. I'm not even defending EA, just more annoyed at the constant pedestal placing of these stupid ankle biting lawsuits.

This whole suit rests on the allegation that EA used their monopoly power to jack prices up for consumers, as NFL2k5 was only $19.99. This ignores how 2k raised the prices of their own games back up to $49.99 the following year, and that the whole industry jumped up to $59.99 this generation. If the court wants to look into that, then fine, but this is a class action suit that won't even force EA or the NFL to open up the license regardless of the outcome.

If anyone really had a relevant case against the exclusive licensing with EA, they'd take it up against the NFL in court like other companies have for other exclusive agreements.

[GTheorenHobbes]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

For anyone interested in the American Needle case that's been mentioned in this thread, I saw this posted today on a legal blog (note the last paragraph):

"For those who have been following the Supreme Court case American Needle v. NFL (previously blogged about in more detail here, here, and here), this Friday clothing manufacturer American Needle Inc. will file its opening brief, arguing that the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals was wrong to define the NFL as a single-entity under Section 1 of the Sherman Act.

As many of you know, I have long agreed with American Needle’s view that the NFL should be treated as a collection of 32 separate clubs, and not as a single entity. To me, this issue was best resolved by the Second Circuit back in the 1982 case North American Soccer League v. Nat’l Football League, in which that court held “the sound and more just procedure is to judge the legality of [sports league] restraints according to well-recognized standards of our antitrust laws rather than permit their exemption.”

Currently, the Second Circuit’s view remains in the overwhelming majority, as seven previous courts have upheld this view and rejected the NFL clubs’ single-entity argument. The Seventh Circuit meanwhile remains alone in its iconoclastic position that single-entity status should be determined one league at a time, one function at a time."

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/09/sports_and_the_law_first_brief.php

[backbreaker]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I really dont understand why people are just sitting here defending EA. Why wouldn't you want competition in the gaming industry seriously? I understand if you are in love with EA and are a loyal fan, but it just boggles my mind that people are defending and rooting for EA to win, its almost ignorant.

I'm with you, I don't understand it as a consumer either, I've stated this time and time again in this thread. Its not about EA, its about me and I want competition and options. I'm probably the rare bird, when their were several games on the market, I bought them all within the same month.

[backbreaker]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

See, that's the problem with these lawsuit threads. Anyone that doesn't put these lawsuits on a golden pedestal for saving our sports gaming is somehow defending EA and hates fun. I was all for hating EA for taking my nfl2k away too, but I moved on. I'm not even defending EA, just more annoyed at the constant pedestal placing of these stupid ankle biting lawsuits.

This whole suit rests on the allegation that EA used their monopoly power to jack prices up for consumers, as NFL2k5 was only $19.99. This ignores how 2k raised the prices of their own games back up to $49.99 the following year, and that the whole industry jumped up to $59.99 this generation. If the court wants to look into that, then fine, but this is a class action suit that won't even force EA or the NFL to open up the license regardless of the outcome.

If anyone really had a relevant case against the exclusive licensing with EA, they'd take it up against the NFL in court like other companies have for other exclusive agreements.

The only Opinion that matters is the judge and he doesn't think like you and he knows the law, so who's wrong, you or the judge?

[Danimal]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

This thread has remained very civil but it's starting to blur the line of being on topic at this point.

Please keep it on the topic.

Thanks

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

The only Opinion that matters is the judge and he doesn't think like you and he knows the law, so who's wrong, you or the judge?

Well, the judge hasn't ruled, so we don't know what his opinion is. He only disagrees with EA's notion (and the notion of some here) that it's completely a baseless claim. That's likely as much to do with how EA presented it's argument as it is to do with how the judge views it. There are a lot of factors at play here.

On a somewhat separate slant, I think it's unfair, as some have alluded, to say people who are against this suit are somehow defending EA. It's not as black and white as that.

I think the disconnect in this thread is some are looking at it strictly as another "EA vs 2K" issue while others are looking at the overall legal ramifications (on both sides of the debate). It will, at the very least, be interesting to see what (if any) doorways this opens.

[haze56]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

This thread has remained very civil but it's starting to blur the line of being on topic at this point.

Please keep it on the topic.

Thanks

You might as well lock it..It's going nowhere fast.

[backbreaker]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Well, the judge hasn't ruled, so we don't know what his opinion is. He only disagrees with EA's notion (and the notion of some here) that it's completely a baseless claim. That's likely as much to do with how EA presented it's argument as it is to do with how the judge views it. There are a lot of factors at play here.

On a somewhat separate slant, I think it's unfair, as some have alluded, to say people who are against this suit are somehow defending EA. It's not as black and white as that.

I think the disconnect in this thread is some are looking at it strictly as another "EA vs 2K" issue while others are looking at the overall legal ramifications (on both sides of the debate). It will, at the very least, be interesting to see what (if any) doorways this opens.

I know he hasn't ruled, when I say opinion, its in reference to him hearing the case, so he think it has some merit and for those of us, who claim it to be baseless, frivolous, or misguided may be right, but up until this point they are wrong according to the judge. I'm not in anyone's camp 2k or EA, I'm in backbreakers camp and right now my camp ain't to happy with Mediocre Madden period.

[JaymeeAwesome]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Even if Madden loses exclusivity, we still wouldn't get another football game from a party other than EA until the 2011 season, which is two years away. In two years Madden could fully straighten out and be a great game for everyone and then that other party's game would not get as many sales and possibly lose money creating a game against Madden. Madden has had the liscense for so long that most video game fans would just stick with the franchise that they've played for so many years.

[alsolidus]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I know he hasn't ruled, when I say opinion, its in reference to him hearing the case, so he think it has some merit and for those of us, who claim it to be baseless, frivolous, or misguided may be right, but up until this point they are wrong according to the judge. I'm not in anyone's camp 2k or EA, I'm in backbreakers camp and right now my camp ain't to happy with Mediocre Madden period.

In my opinion this exclusive deal has allowed EA to put out a terrible product and raise prices. They are now trying to charge for bonus cards and the ability to play a game I already payed 60 bucks on to have to fork over another $5 to play on All Madden online.

Really EA pay $1 to boost my players defensive awareness for one game LOL really EA this exclusive deal is the only reason they would try some crap like that.

I'm hoping karma wins this for us cause we don't have much of a case.

[GTheorenHobbes]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

Madden has had the liscense for so long that most video game fans would just stick with the franchise that they've played for so many years.

Madden's overall sales have declined from a high of roughly 6 million, in 2004, to probably somewhere between 3 and 4 million this year, when all is said and done. My guess is that those 2-3 million customers that EA has turned off have not lost their love for football, and might be willing to try a competing product. Right now, though, it's only speculation on all of our part as to whether a competing, NFL licensed product would meet with success or failure if released somewhere down the road. Like BackBreaker, I'm in the camp that would probably buy every NFL licensed game that's released.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

I'm not in anyone's camp 2k or EA, I'm in backbreakers camp and right now my camp ain't to happy with Mediocre Madden period.

I wasn't meaning to imply that you were. That's why I added "on a separate slant" to segue into my thoughts on it without using a separate post...no worries.

[Methlab]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

They *think* the market isn't there. That doesn't make it reality.

Be honest, what they did for 2k8 was horrible. It was a great game on-the-field, but the whole retired NFL player fantasy league angle was just flat out stupid. People wanted franchise modes and customization. Instead, they gave us a bunch of old players in a fantasy league with absolutely no long term playability. The teams didn't even randomize if you started a new season.

There is a market for customizable football gaming. It's not as big as the NFL market, sure, but it's there and NO ONE has even attempted to take advantage of it. "Wahhhhh!! we won't sell as many copies as Madden" is a really stupid reason to not make a game.

You have no proof for any of this. Your best reference is posts on a web site and that makes you think that "People wanted franchise modes and customization". There is no proof at all that this is true. What people are you talking about? How about when you say "There is a market for customizable football gaming". OK, well how big is that market and would they buy a game like that over one with an NFL license? So far the numbers say no, they will not.

You can punch holes in 2k8, but it was quite customizable. Many people have recreated their favorite teams down to the unis. The game barely sold regardless. I just don't see any facts that back up your claims at all.

Do you have any hard #s that back up your claims? Because we can pull the sales #s of 2k8 vs a HORRIBLE version of Madden 08, and they will crush your argument completely.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Maddens legal battle starts today 09/14/2009!

This case, although interesting, will hardly do anything to get 2k back on track to make a competitive game. The only thing they have going for them now is there basketball series, and it's looking pretty grim for them. I could really see this going either way, but the argument that the NFL is a natural monopoly might push the case toward EA's corner. The only way these guys can win is if they can prove that EA holds a complete edge in the gaming market because they have the license. It's not impossible, but I don't think it would go anywhere even if they win.