There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

[Broncos86]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I personally am not saying "easier" or "more wide open." I'm saying, fix the problems. Making the game challenging doesn't automatically make it good football. Nobody wants passing to be easy. They just want good football. That's important to understand.

Right now, the passing game in Madden isn't as realistic as it could be, and I think most who actually play football or understand the mechanics of football can agree with that.

[N51_rob]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

Sluggos are very useful. Proof in the form of this:

http://www.madden-school.com/forum/m...tml#post169132

Working once in practice is not what I would call "very useful", but if if works for you more power to you. Got a practice vid of the "out and up" working too?

[baller7345]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

Working once in practice is not what I would call "very useful", but if if works for you more power to you. Got a practice vid of the "out and up" working too?

I spent about an hour practicing it and it works more than once. I think I mentioned that I had managed to do it about 10 times in a row at one point (of course this was knowing exactly what the coverage was). I don't have a video of the out n up working but it works along the same principle. The sluggo, out n up, hitch n go, and even the post corner route all have a window against man coverage that if you pumpfake you get a reaction from the defender leaving the player wide open. The sluggo is just the easiest to take advantage of due to how fast the route can be ran and since the WR heads towards the sidelines you can fit it in there against 2 man under.

[N51_rob]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I spent about an hour practicing it and it works more than once. I think I mentioned that I had managed to do it about 10 times in a row at one point (of course this was knowing exactly what the coverage was). I don't have a video of the out n up working but it works along the same principle.

This is why I say I don't hold stock in something working in practice mode. You spent an hour doing this? You got to pick your play, the defenses play, the team you were and the team you were playing against. You got to set every variable in your favor and got it to work 10 times in an hour? That is irrelevant to playing against someone or the computer on higher difficulties. How many times did it not work?

The sluggo, out n up, hitch n go, and even the post corner route all have a window against man coverage that if you pumpfake you get a reaction from the defender leaving the player wide open. The sluggo is just the easiest to take advantage of due to how fast the route can be ran and since the WR heads towards the sidelines you can fit it in there against 2 man under.

Watching double moves, in actual game. There are plenty of times where they work without the need of the pumpfake to open the window. The double move that Andre Johnson ran on Pacman Jones in the Texans/Bengals playoff game for example. Somethings should work, because a.) you are facing an over aggressive CB, b) you set the play up by hitting 3, 4, 5, slants on 3rd and short early so that late in the game the corner is playing that slant on 3rd and short and BOOM you hit them with the sluggo. or c.) you use the pumpfake to manipulate the coverage. Not just one of the three for example.

But like I said, if you can get it to work for you more power too you. I still stand by my thoughts on the play(s) though. I do appreciate you work and contributions to this topic though. I just dont agree.

[baller7345]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

This is why I say I don't hold stock in something working in practice mode. You spent an hour doing this? You got to pick your play, the defenses play, the team you were and the team you were playing against. You got to set every variable in your favor and got it to work 10 times in an hour? That is irrelevant to playing against someone or the computer on higher difficulties. How many times did it not work?




Watching double moves, in actual game. There are plenty of times where they work without the need of the pumpfake to open the window. The double move that Andre Johnson ran on Pacman Jones in the Texans/Bengals playoff game for example. Somethings should work, because a.) you are facing an over aggressive CB, b) you set the play up by hitting 3, 4, 5, slants on 3rd and short early so that late in the game the corner is playing that slant on 3rd and short and BOOM you hit them with the sluggo. or c.) you use the pumpfake to manipulate the coverage. Not just one of the three for example.

But like I said, if you can get it to work for you more power too you. I still stand by my thoughts on the play(s) though. I do appreciate you work and contributions to this topic though. I just dont agree.

No, no, no you completely misunderstood or I screwed up the typing. I got it to work 10 times in a row at one point. Overall, I probably did it about 100-150 times on about 80% of the snaps. Once you get the timing down it is deadly against man. They have been a staple in my playbook since I worked with them on that thread. They make great game changers if you can catch your opponent playing a man based defense.

On the other not I completely agree that they should be able to work without a pumpfake but I can only work with what I'm given.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

here's what were not getting. EA has an idea what gamers "want" and won't put things in the game or fix them.

Anyway I have no faith that we'll see anything at all we want out of the passing game, despite reviews saying it sucked and a majority of the websites/gamers saying it sucks.

Its a case of "we know what you want better than you do"

[RogueHominid]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

There are some things you can do to address this issue. First, you can up your QB accuracy slider. This actually does make it easier to hit those very small windows in the deep post or in routes.

Second, you can do a global edit of PRC that has the best guys at 75 and the average guys at 65. This does wonders for opening routes up because it takes away the mirroring that you see on deep posts.

I have a hunch that messsing with the catch in traffic rating would do something for this problem, though I've never tried it. With every rating there's a break point where you start seeing new things at certain values. I'd give that a shot.

[TNT713]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

Having a good mastery of how to locate passes (pressure on buttons + action on stick), I don't see any way to further pinpoint pass locations without complicating the system. The beauty of passing in Madden is the simplicity. But that's another thread...

I would like to see more bobble catches.

Player sizes have always been an issue... Players seem bigger than they should be.

Later

[Broncos86]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

here's what were not getting. EA has an idea what gamers "want" and won't put things in the game or fix them.

Anyway I have no faith that we'll see anything at all we want out of the passing game, despite reviews saying it sucked and a majority of the websites/gamers saying it sucks.

Its a case of "we know what you want better than you do"

I don't get this attitude AT ALL. We're the ones that said the running game was terrible and blocking horrible. They addressed it. We said zone defenses were a joke. They fixed that. We complained that franchise mode was horrendous. They went right after it.

None of those are perfect (nothing ever is), but they came straight to us, had community days, created a committee for franchise mode, and more for the sake of hearing what we want. I'm not saying everything we asked for was implemented. But come ON, guys. This attitude has got to be thrown away. Some of you are burned, I get that. If you're this jaded, just stop buying the game.

There is plenty of room for improvement, but to act like they haven't been listening to us is just pure GARBAGE. It's straight up garbage. If you're too upset at EA to think otherwise, then I don't understand why you're even in this forum or giving EA money.

[TNT713]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I don't get this attitude AT ALL. We're the ones that said the running game was terrible and blocking horrible. They addressed it. We said zone defenses were a joke. They fixed that. We complained that franchise mode was horrendous. They went right after it.

None of those are perfect (nothing ever is), but they came straight to us, had community days, created a committee for franchise mode, and more for the sake of hearing what we want. I'm not saying everything we asked for was implemented. But come ON, guys. This attitude has got to be thrown away. Some of you are burned, I get that. If you're this jaded, just stop buying the game.

There is plenty of room for improvement, but to act like they haven't been listening to us is just pure GARBAGE. It's straight up garbage. If you're too upset at EA to think otherwise, then I don't understand why you're even in this forum or giving EA money.

I've seen this same attitude a ton in the past 10 years of surfing Madden message boards... I think it stems from the number of people that aren't fans of the Madden series who are forced to play it for their virtual football fix.

They didn't like Madden before. They don't like Madden now. They aren't going to like Madden in the future. So instead of looking at the facts, they rely heavily on their emotional connection to the game to determine EA's position. Furthermore, these people seem to believe everything negative they read at face value regardless of the source. But they usually aren't very GOOD at the game and blame the game for their lack of success...

Later

[Big FN Deal]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

@Broncos86 and TNT, while I agree there is some truth in what you both posted, there is also plenty history of the type attitude LionsFanNJ mentioned too. Even Madden developers often later on admit, the problem with x or how y should have been implemented better.

I agree they have at times given gamers what they asked for but they often gives us want they want us to have and/or implement what we say we want in their own "artistic", sometimes incomplete way. I will remind you guys of Beyond Broadcast for multiple years before finally doing it network style, online franchise, the Extra Point, year round monetizing of the consumer and the infamous realism vs fun balance in an alleged simulation, just to name a few.

That said, I personally believe that's mostly in the past and EA has scrapped that Frank Sinatra "My Way" attitude for authenticity but time will tell.

[Broncos86]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I never said it was perfect, or done well, or complete. I said they listened. It's impossible to say they haven't listened to us. A developer admitting problem X with Y has nothing to do with whether or not they listened to us. That has to do with implementation.

[DarkNowitzki78]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I dont think the Passing Game is that bad in Madden, sure there are plenty things which could be improved. What im seeing from my online experience is, that a lot of gamers run around with the QB or take to much time, to get rid off the ball. In the real NFL you are having around 3.5 seconds till the Defense will break the pocket and get to the QB. So, you have to know the assigned steps for each drop and then throw the ball. Thats the way it works for me very well so far. Not more than one or two sacks a game and a passing result, that im fine with.

And as mentioned in the posts, you have to read the coverages. Look from where the Blitz will come and go for that spot on the field. Otherwise, look for one on one coverages and try to use that matchup. Im sure, i dont have to tell you the same bla bla Only my point of view and so far im OK with it.

For the future im sure, that they will do some improvements as EA did in Fifa or NHL and im thinking it will be a blast. (Let me hope plz) Im thinking that, because, NFL is the last Franchise that didnt get that imense push of all the Flag Ship Franchises and they must give NFL more love. But i could imagine, that it is a very difficult thing to programming it and more, to balance it at the end.

[Broncos86]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

I dont think the Passing Game is that bad in Madden, sure there are plenty things which could be improved.

To start:

1) Receivers run the route based on the point in which the pass was thrown. Throw to a receiver running an out route, before he's made his break, and he will end up running a go route to catch the ball.

2) Linebackers react within nanoseconds. The linebacker play is beyond unrealistic. I'm tired of seeing a linebacker react instantly to a pass and proceed to take ONE side step that goes multiple yards, without any consideration for weight, momentum, etc.

3) Wide receivers do not fight for the ball. They're content to continue their route to meet with the ball w/o taking into consideration that a defender is cutting their route. To hear Herbstreit say "that receiver needs to play defense in that situation" just makes me chuckle, because that's not possible.

4) Ball trajectory is a guessing game. We need to be able to see how ball trajectory truly works with the controller. We need more variance on ball speed and trajectory.

5) We need a passing game where cornerbacks aren't running the route before the wide receiver is.

6) Defenders shouldn't be able to instantaneously jump forwards from a back peddle. They should not be able to jump at max vertical from a sprint. They should not be able to change directions, even from a sprint, in under one second.

7) ALL players need a field of vision. I'm tired of seeing defenders in man coverage turn their backs, then IMMEDIATELY turn around and play the receiver I threw to. I understand on-field communication is key to real football, but this instant reflex stuff is too much.

The passing game is antiquated and old. And I personally believe the dev team knows this. It's one of the last relics of the pre-M10 regime that has received almost no attention. There was a smidgen of love in Madden 10 with regard to ball flight, etc.

[DarkNowitzki78]

Re: There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

To start:

1) Receivers run the route based on the point in which the pass was thrown. Throw to a receiver running an out route, before he's made his break, and he will end up running a go route to catch the ball.

2) Linebackers react within nanoseconds. The linebacker play is beyond unrealistic. I'm tired of seeing a linebacker react instantly to a pass and proceed to take ONE side step that goes multiple yards, without any consideration for weight, momentum, etc.

3) Wide receivers do not fight for the ball. They're content to continue their route to meet with the ball w/o taking into consideration that a defender is cutting their route. To hear Herbstreit say "that receiver needs to play defense in that situation" just makes me chuckle, because that's not possible.

4) Ball trajectory is a guessing game. We need to be able to see how ball trajectory truly works with the controller. We need more variance on ball speed and trajectory.

5) We need a passing game where cornerbacks aren't running the route before the wide receiver is.

6) Defenders shouldn't be able to instantaneously jump forwards from a back peddle. They should not be able to jump at max vertical from a sprint. They should not be able to change directions, even from a sprint, in under one second.

7) ALL players need a field of vision. I'm tired of seeing defenders in man coverage turn their backs, then IMMEDIATELY turn around and play the receiver I threw to. I understand on-field communication is key to real football, but this instant reflex stuff is too much.

The passing game is antiquated and old. And I personally believe the dev team knows this. It's one of the last relics of the pre-M10 regime that has received almost no attention. There was a smidgen of love in Madden 10 with regard to ball flight, etc.

I see what your point is for sure and im with you in most of the arguements. But i hope you get my view also a bit. Lets make a little mind game... If i give all the tools you mentioned to the passing game like throwing recvieres open, less awareness and reaction time for the linebackers or routes that arent so well covered, you also need a whole new defense logic and gameplay too. For sure, i would prefer that also, but thats a whole lot work to do in order to bring it to the table in a way, that no of the either sides has a huge advantage.

To talk from the defense standpoint, i want a lot more passes batted down by line players and so on. I liked the pass or rush commit game in Madden 10 a lot and that is what you would need in a whole new way back then, if the passing game goes in that direction you would like. The pass or run commit, should be played then also as a guessing game and the possibilty to turn it left or right for example.

I dont know the insides of EA and the Madden Team, but i think they go in the right direction. The hire of the MLB the Show developer is a sign and also the steps Madden 12 has made. They will bring Madden 13 with some new "little" features and then go full steam on the nex Generation of the Xbox or PS4



When im talking about only online or playing against a friend, i would say that Madden 12 is very good balanced and if you play it in a decent way, you have a nice experience. Balance is in Head to Head games everything.