Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

[bichettehappens]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

And this is the practice they have been doing this entire gen of console. I expected them to BUILD on what they had already done, instead of tearing it out and losing features AGAIN. Things were broken. I expected them to fix and expand on it. But I've been expecting that the entire life cycle on this console.

But instead of fixing and expanding, they stripped significant features. It seems to be a theme with them. My god, they wasted last years effort and here you are defending that wasted effort and time.

Why continue building on a mode that is bland and out-dated, that many on this site have been complaining about for years? Why continue polishing a turd?

If EA had added full editing capabilities and multi-team control in CCM this year, would we still be having this discussion? Would you have preferred that they had built on franchise mode of old instead?

You can only keep sinking money, time, and effort into a 1994 Plymouth Acclaim for so long before it's time to upgrade to a newer car.

I don't know about you but I'd take a base model, brand new Civic over the old Plymouth with the custom body kit, sound system, etc if I'm paying the same price for both, but perhaps we just see things differently. I enjoyed franchise mode of old because it fulfilled my football fix (when it worked properly), much like I enjoyed my first car because it got me from point A to point B (when it worked properly), but I'll be damned if I wasn't looking at the franchise modes in other games like the nicer cars on the road saying "I want that!"

I believe CCM is finally a step towards a much deeper and more immersive franchise mode, and am hopeful that they stick with it and continue building on it by adding in features that finally work properly. I understand being disappointed that the car doesn't even have a CD player or iPhone jack, that you have to roll the windows down manually, and so on, but looking at the big picture I struggle to understand how any "immersion buff" can be mad at EA's attempt to breathe much needed life into a tired game mode. Short-term, though? I totally get the frustration.

Edited to add: Online franchise upgraded from a Razor scooter

[CRMosier_LM]

That aint true!...i think the majority of ppl, including the "Madden/EA" haters were extremely excited for this game...until,..............June 7-8 rolled around...



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Call it what you want... It's the same thing each year with the same folks. They wait and look for reasons to bring down the game and others and why the other game is better (which it certainly isnt). Some of the same folks screaming for physics... Well as soon as it was announced the answer was "well so and so had it 5 years ago" even though that's all that game had.

All in all, over the last 5 years we have had a more complete game every year in Madden (everything considered) than we have ever had. Some want to only look at the negative, some want to only look at the positive. What should be going on is everyone step back and look at the game as a whole and decide. If you can do that and say it is/isn't worth the money... Then so be it.

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[CRMosier_LM]

Not to be funny and admittedly I preferred that other game last-gen but what exactly has Madden done "football" well, this gen? Meaning, what can you point to in Madden and say "that is a good representation of football"?

The only thing I can think of is graphics but game play, presentation and even things it had last gen that the other game didn't like a deeper franchise mode, mass substitutions, etc, didn't exist most this gen. Granted some stuff has been slowly added back but some of that didn't even work right when it was.

Forget that other game, next-gen Madden is still collectively behind last gen Madden and that can't be labeled EA hate. I am not try to attack you CR, I am just saying that there is merit to a lack of football progress from Madden this console generation. We have yet to get a Madden this console generation that is a reasonably complete representation of football and I never felt like that before the exclusive. That's my issue, every next-gen Madden and I have bought them ALL, felt like a shell of a football game, instead of finished cohesive product. New things added didn't work right, old things added the year or years before still didn't work right or work well with the new things and so much was just disjointed.

Things like improved zone run blocking from M11 and the improved zone defense from M12 were held back from being done well due to other on-going issues with player movement, animations, ratings and AI. Franchise felt like a bunch of strung together play now games, Online Franchise was bare bones, online communities no lobbies, online ranked/rankings seem pointless, presentation didn't flow well with game play, broadcasting wasn't cohesive, on and on. Not mention all the things that would be added and incomplete one year, just to be completely removed later years, instead of finished.

This stuff is not rose colored glasses imo, it's that last-gen NFL games, no matter the company, seemed like complete finished products with understandable issues in contrast to next-gen Madden. CR wouldn't you agree that if there were other NFL games on the market, that it's highly unlikely most if any of these next-gen Madden's are released in the state that they were?

Nothing can be done about the past now and I am liking what I am seeing with M13, plan on buying it but anyone that says next-gen Madden has been a more complete NFL football game than most any last-gen NFL football game, to this point, is wearing the rose colored glasses, imo.

Gameplay wise... Last gen was way worse than this gen. It's franchise mode was better... Until this year.

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[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

Not to be funny and admittedly I preferred that other game last-gen but what exactly has Madden done "football" well, this gen? Meaning, what can you point to in Madden and say "that is a good representation of football"

Yeah I loved the other game but also admit it bad its fair share of issues. I seriously miss having options as much as anyone.
As far as what Madden has done this gen.. Etc...
Not much imo other than milk the name.
Which is why i have zero issues with the game getting gutted. Yes it sucks we lost some abilities and options in the game but if the end result gives us all the options back with a very improved game I'm all for it.

Wanting to keep everything and try and fix the "crap" for a lack of a better term would have been worse. We've lived that the last 3-4 years. With the very inept additions thats sole purposes was to hide/mask the faults and not actually fix them.
Most of us want the same things. It just sucks us gamers (not the ones who troll every thread with non input other than cracks at EA including things that with a little searching they would find out EA had zero fault in) get mad at each other when we want the same results.
If we don't get advancements with this revamped crew then I'll be right back to voicing my opinions more often and "louder"

I have faith in this crew and hope they dont let me(us) down.

[Franchise408]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

I agree to a point, but you can't pin Madden 13 for advertising any back of box features. If you are, well, your hatred for Madden is very strong.

And you still refuse to admit change can happen.

Change can happen, sure, and I certainly hope Madden proves me wrong.

But again, pardon me for not having faither in a title that hasn't impressed me in the 20 years of its existence, and continues to make decision after decision that I disagree with.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

My question is this... If EA had added full editing capabilities and multi-team control in CCM this year, would we still be having this discussion? Would you have preferred that they had built on franchise mode of old instead?

We definitely wouldn't be having this conversation, there would be a few people still mad about a few issues, but Team Tiburon would be getting unprecedented praise on OS, CCM would be hailed as a great thing.

We've got noting else to do while we wait for the game to come out, so I guess we'll continue the back and forth over this issue, but it's really a pointless endeavor.

The missing options are vitally important to quite a few people here, and they can not have a quality game playing experience without it, so they're going to raise Cain until it gets fixed.

Arguing against their POV is a waste of time, those of us who are content with the design decisions will just have to deal with the anger, buy the game when it comes out, and hope that the game lives up to the positive vibe we're feeling about it right now.

[Franchise408]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

You are fighting a losing battle my friend, some folks will never be satisfied as long as it says "EA SPORTS" or "Madden" on the title.

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No need to be condescending. I have very good reasons to dislike Madden and EA, and EA has not earned my trutst in the. 8 years ago I had the option to go elsewhere, now I don't. That much IS EA's fault, and they have brought that upon themselves by buying out the exclusive license.

But, just some things that were standard in NFL 2K5 that EA either passes off as innovative, or removes from their game 8 years later:

-Truck stick (not given some fancy name)
-Full player editing
-Fantasy draft franchise mode
-Same console multiplayer franchise mode
-Sideline catch animations
-Non-psychic DB's
-"Pass trajectories" and non-super LB's

Areas where Madden still hasn't caught up:
-Adaptive AI. I was playing a game last night on 2K5's version of "All-Madden". The AI didn't resort to cheat tactics. Literally everything the AI did to me, I was able to pinpoint the weakness in my defense that they exploited. The 70 yard TD run - I overloaded the right side of the line, and they shifted their play to go left where i had no support. Their passing game, instead of going robo-QB found holes in my zone. With me on offense, the AI would actually adapt to my playcalling. If i was throwing passes down the sideline, they'd adjust their defense, going into Cover 2's leaving the middle open. When i began burning them over the middle, they would begin protecting the middle. I'd actually have to really consider my playcalling, because the AI adapted to what I was doing, instead of just "cheating" their way to victory.

-Footplanting, non "ice skating" running
You can't just zig zag your way through a defense. While I don't think NFL 2K5 has RTP, a ball carrier's momentum is taken into consideration when changing direction, and it is not just a zig zag.

O-Line / D-Line interactions
No "suction" blocking here.

Ratings matter more than a difficulty setting
In Madden, if I am playing on All Madden, it makes no difference who im using or who im going against, the difficulty setting determines what happens. I have tried games as the 49ers with Alex Smith or the Patriots with Tom Brady and the results are the same. Signing players in Madden makes no difference, because their performance is determined by the sliders.

Not so much in 2K5. Playing on the All Madden equivalent, I was doing things with Peyton Manning and the Colts that I could never dream of doing with the Tim Rattay led 49ers. It was a night and day difference between my performance and outcome due to tue players I had on the field. It was such a great feeling that Madden comes nowhere close to providing.

-Franchise mode contracts
You were given way more flexibility in contracts, being able to front load, back load, stagger, etc...yearly salaries. Something Madden has never had.

So before you accuse me of having an agenda, why don't you familiarize yourself with what my complaints actually are. EA is lightyears behind what I have already experienced in a football game, and frankly, there's no excuse for it. For everything you say about being able to point out 2K's shortcomings, I bet you could. But you know what was great about 8 years ago? I hated Madden, and could play 2K. You hated 2K and could play Madden. But not so much anymore. EA made it so that I can ONLY play Madden. So with them removing my choice, and leaving me with them as the only option, you better believe they better cater to what I want. And until they do, I will continue to voice my pleasure with EA continue for forcing me into their game, and their game only.

[bichettehappens]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

8 years ago I had the option to go elsewhere, now I don't. That much IS EA's fault, and they have brought that upon themselves by buying out the exclusive license.

I hardly think that is something to hold against EA. 2K had the opportunity to beat the offer didn't they? Despite the fact EA had been seeking out an exclusive license prior, the fact that the NFL put the license up for bid made it a kill-or-be-killed scenario for either game. Was EA supposed to graciously bow out and let 2K get it?

The rest of your post, valid points. I just don't think the exclusive license is fair to hold against EA as if it was something they explicitly did wrong.

[Franchise408]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

I hardly think that is something to hold against EA. 2K had the opportunity to beat the offer didn't they? Despite the fact EA had been seeking out an exclusive license prior, the fact that the NFL put the license up for bid made it a kill-or-be-killed scenario for either game. Was EA supposed to graciously bow out and let 2K get it?

The rest of your post, valid points. I just don't think the exclusive license is fair to hold against EA as if it was something they explicitly did wrong.

It is when they've used the opportunity to cut corners and willfully release an inferior game year after year because they are the only option in town. Monopolies are by definitions a bad thing.

EA removed options from the market. Since removing those options from the market, they have stopped innovating, even the most die hard of Madden fans admit that EA is just coasting. They removed my option, and failed to create a product that meets my needs. That is EA's fault. I can no longer enjoy NFL gaming because of EA.

You can only keep sinking money, time, and effort into a 1994 Plymouth Acclaim for so long before it's time to upgrade to a newer car.

True, but that Plymouth wasn't franchise mode, its Madden. They've had their shot. Its time to end the exclusive license and let someone else have a shot.

[bichettehappens]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

It is when they've used the opportunity to cut corners and willfully release an inferior game year after year because they are the only option in town. Monopolies are by definitions a bad thing.

EA removed options from the market. Since removing those options from the market, they have stopped innovating, even the most die hard of Madden fans admit that EA is just coasting. They removed my option, and failed to create a product that meets my needs. That is EA's fault. I can no longer enjoy NFL gaming because of EA.



True, but that Plymouth wasn't franchise mode, its Madden. They've had their shot. Its time to end the exclusive license and let someone else have a shot.

Ok I think I misunderstood what you were saying in the part I quoted then. I thought you were holding the fact that they paid for the license against them, but now it seems you were saying you hold what they've done since then (or lack thereof) against them rather than the actual purchase itself. My mistake.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

Gameplay wise... Last gen was way worse than this gen. It's franchise mode was better... Until this year.

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By default of being on more advanced consoles the game play, graphics and AI should be better than last-gen but my point was all the Maddens this gen have seemed incomplete. Maybe that's more about patches being available than some other reasoning but I just don't believe next-gen Maddens would have been released as seemingly poorly put together if other companies were still allowed to make NFL games.

I am over being bitter about the exclusive license but I think we all can agree that the QA for next-gen Madden has seemed far worse than last-gen. In all honesty, I have to admit that QA should be the biggest concern about M13 and the touted improvements.

[Franchise408]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

Ok I think I misunderstood what you were saying in the part I quoted then. I thought you were holding the fact that they paid for the license against them, but now it seems you were saying you hold what they've done since then (or lack thereof) against them rather than the actual purchase itself. My mistake.

Well I do hold the purchase against them as well. I'm not okay with artificially removing options from the market.

But yes, I could get over the exclusive deal if EA / Tiburon was capable of making a satisfactory game, and after 20 years, I don't have faith that they can.

[bichettehappens]

Re: Madden 13: Buy or No Buy

Well I do hold the purchase against them as well. I'm not okay with artificially removing options from the market.

Why hold that against EA, though? That's on the NFL. EA simply ponied up the money to secure the continuation of their bread-winner. They really had no choice in the matter. It was either pay up or let 2K pay for the license and discontinue Madden.

[kehlis]

Guys lets not have this discussion again please. I appreciate the mature responses so far but not only has this discussion been beaten to death, it is also derailing the thread.

[LionsFanNJ]

Not buying. I can't play a sports game that won't allow me to customize the career/dynasty/etc experience to my liking, even if its just the visual aspect of the players I'm using/playing against.