run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

[SJHalt621]

yeah i remember those. but it wasnt harped on in every thread like player editing and custom rosters was. thats why they never paid attention to it.

To be honest it looks like whoever did the playbooks either just stopped doing it..or completely did not understand how this system worked..I mean 4 stars for all run plays on 1st down and 1 to a half a star for pass plays..and how can most play books only have 4-5 pass plays only on first down?

[Rawdeal28]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

To be honest it looks like whoever did the playbooks either just stopped doing it..or completely did not understand how this system worked..I mean 4 stars for all run plays on 1st down and 1 to a half a star for pass plays..and how can most play books only have 4-5 pass plays only on first down?

yeah thats exactly what happened. totally unacceptable.

[tril]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

so if I raise the star levels in the game plan playbooks for all teams does that mean that they will have an equal shot at running any type of play during any down

[js3512]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Sorry alittle tired from working double..but u lost me on this one..but I'm interested in this..can u explain this again..but like u would explain it to a child as I'm not picking it up..thanks..lol

If you change your playbook to Pass Balanced for example before the game. Then in game if you go to Ask Madden when choosing your offensive plays it will give you more variety in the 3 random plays it picks out. With my teams default playbook, many times, it would give me 3 different run plays to choose from on 1st down if I went to Ask Madden.

[Rawdeal28]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

so if I raise the star levels in the game plan playbooks for all teams does that mean that they will have an equal shot at running any type of play during any down

yes, in Play Now.

changing anything in a playbook requires you saving it as a custom playbook. and as you should know, no custom Playbooks allowed in CC.

[tdawg3782]

yes, in Play Now.

changing anything in a playbook requires you saving it as a custom playbook. and as you should know, no custom Playbooks allowed in CC.

Which as we've said is just stupid. Won't do me any good but it makes me feel better saying it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I'd also be interested to see more testing on if legends playbooks work properly and if some regular playbooks work. For example some have said the Lions playbook allows for proper splits for a pass dominant team.

I believe the Lions book is fairly representative of "Pass Heavy" / "Vertical" for two reasons:

1) Played them a few times in test CCMs and they threw it often AND deep

2) Megatron is on the cover...those players / teams always get extra "attention" from the developers...

I THINK it might make a good primary or alt selection for teams with similar scheme...

I'm VERY curious about the Legend books (esp. Vermeil / Billick / Gibbs / Madden)...

Not sure how to test other than observation...

I know Vermeil has some nice TE in the slot / etc. plays that might be good for NE IF RNG doesn't have enough TE "feature" plays...

Gibbs has nice zone blocking, but NO gun...so...???

As stated, Billick is a nice choice for MN / AP...anyone else?

The Madden book is nice for the USER, but might just be a "balanced" with some "vertical" when implemented by CPU...

Also:

Nice suggestions on the D Book flying around...

Once again, sticking to default scheme might make the players play as well as possible (they take a OVR hit on the depth chart when "out" of scheme, etc.)...

My main beef with the D playcall AI is too many 6-8 man blitzes on pass plays that are easy to exploit in the seam...they seem to do it on 3 and long and in the RZ...

Any generic books that minimize that?

Once again:

Great thread / research / insight!!!

Continued apologies for continuing to throw my "two cents" in while unable to help test...

Away from console at critical time!!!

UGH



Regards!

[js3512]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

My main beef with the D playcall AI is too many 6-8 man blitzes on pass plays that are easy to exploit in the seam...they seem to do it on 3 and long and in the RZ...

Well, to be fair, 3rd and long and in the RZ are the prime places for blitzes. The real problem here is that there's too many "all out" type blitzes. On third and long they should be sending 5-6 and dropping the rest into zone coverage to keep the play in front of them. In the redzone they should be doing more overload type blitzes, still sending 6 max, and playing press coverage on the receivers.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Fixed! But there is no Pass Heavy generic. Pass balanced in my tests though usually yields 40-50 attempts per game. Here's a list of the generics:

Balanced
Pass Balanced
Run Balanced
Run Heavy
West Coast
Run N' Gun

Great info!!!

If "Pass Balanced" is yielding an (approximate) 65 / 35 split, do you have similar approximations on the other generic books?

Seems that from posts in the thread, WC and even RNG are close to 50 / 50 (although it's a "new and improved" 50 / 50 from team book 50 /50)...

Is that correct?

Also:

I think current RNG book MIGHT be more of a collegiate Nevada / Pistol than a Spurrier / Gators "Fun and Gun" like he tried to implement in WAS, which was more of a Spread...

They had FNG in Madden back then and it was much more pass heavy...

That being said:

RNG might be a good BAL book, since they are still a run team out of the gun / no huddle / hurry up?

In the game versus CLE (for instance), it looked kind of RNG to me...

I think "Spread" might be more like the Vermeil (Martz-ish) book?

Anyway:

There's lots of room here for USER interpretation...

Between the splits the generic books may yield, the default schemes adherence that will (should /may) "make the players play better" and the ever evolving IRL gameplans ("New 50 / 50 Pats" versus NYJ for example), there's a few ways to look at this...

It's also worth noting that even if two teams use the same generic book, they will implement it differently according to the CPU HC run / pass / aggressiveness settings that we can no longer see, as well as personnel and game situation...

That being said, as much "variation" with all the currently "known factors" will bring about the most satisfying result...IMHO

The reason is took me a minute to grasp this whole concept was it's initial phase which was based on giving the Pass Balanced book across the board, which didn't appeal to me...

As the research and insight developed, the concept evolved into "getting the best fit" out of all the generic books and the legend books with regard to scheme and splits...

Looking VERY forward to the "fine tuning" stage which appears to be close at hand...

[DetroitStyle]

There's LOTS of room for user interpretation and it can go in two directions: matching to real life schemes or matching to Madden's original vision for the schemes.

The "real life" approach means checking stats and reports on coaching schemes for those teams as setting an appropriate play book. The problem is that there is no 30 team control so if a team is all of a sudden pass heavy in real life and you give them a pass heavy play book in a run balanced in game scheme things can get messy.

Matching to Madden's schemes, like I posted earlier is finding a playbook to best fit the games original scheme. So a west coast scheme in CCM will play a west coast scheme in game. Some have noted that real life dictates the browns or raiders should be running more. Something about McFadden getting used to the system. That doesn't matter in this case. Without 30 team control you can't change the coaches scheme (unless you are that team) so you want a playbook to match the game's intended scheme.

[maccerbiggie]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

There's LOTS of room for user interpretation and it can go in two directions: matching to real life schemes or matching to Madden's original vision for the schemes.

The "real life" approach means checking stats and reports on coaching schemes for those teams as setting an appropriate play book. The problem is that there is no 30 team control so if a team is all of a sudden pass heavy in real life and you give them a pass heavy play book in a run balanced in game scheme things can get messy.

Matching to Madden's schemes, like I posted earlier is finding a playbook to best fit the games original scheme. So a west coast scheme in CCM will play a west coast scheme in game. Some have noted that real life dictates the browns or raiders should be running more. Something about McFadden getting used to the system. That doesn't matter in this case. Without 30 team control you can't change the coaches scheme (unless you are that team) so you want a playbook to match the game's intended scheme.

As you know Detroit I've been using the playbooks and your sliders, and have had fantastic results.

I personally have been matching the playbook to the teams scheme. However I do believe that they're not always right. It is likely that through studying the game you could match perfect playbooks for each team, but you've got to bare in mind aspects like coach changes and personnel changes. As your CCM develops, so will the teams. And for that reason you will need to match playbooks to schemes, unless you understand every teams roster.

Coaches will change, and they'll bring different schemes. And providing that what EA have told us about the AI logic, they should build teams to match their schemes and needs. Thus making most sense to just accept their scheme, and pick the playbook accordingly.

[DetroitStyle]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

As you know Detroit I've been using the playbooks and your sliders, and have had fantastic results.

I personally have been matching the playbook to the teams scheme. However I do believe that they're not always right. It is likely that through studying the game you could match perfect playbooks for each team, but you've got to bare in mind aspects like coach changes and personnel changes. As your CCM develops, so will the teams. And for that reason you will need to match playbooks to schemes, unless you understand every teams roster.

Coaches will change, and they'll bring different schemes. And providing that what EA have told us about the AI logic, they should build teams to match their schemes and needs. Thus making most sense to just accept their scheme, and pick the playbook accordingly.

Exactly my thoughts. I believe you can see every coaches scheme in CCM but you can only change yours. That allows you at the beginning of the year to check out whose coaching what team and see what scheme they're running. In year 2 of a CCM the Jets could fire Rex and hire a coach with a vertical passing scheme so it would be kind of dumb to assign a run balanced playbook for that week. That's why I think it's important to figure out the best playbook match for the schemes in game.

[agidio3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Also wish it didn't require two controllers...

I used to have two, don't now and really don't want to get another to correct an issue that shouldn't need such workarounds.

you could buy a cheap used one at gamestop

[DetroitStyle]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

I believe the Lions book is fairly representative of "Pass Heavy" / "Vertical" for two reasons:

2) Megatron is on the cover...those players / teams always get extra "attention" from the developers...

Tested this out with the Saints and at halftime they had 18 rushes and 7 passes. It looks like it affects ANY team playbook. We'll see if the legends are different but you might want to avoid team specific playbooks at all costs.

[KingV2k3]

Re: run/pass ratio Team specific playbooks for computer- offline CCM

Tested this out with the Saints and at halftime they had 18 rushes and 7 passes. It looks like it affects ANY team playbook. We'll see if the legends are different but you might want to avoid team specific playbooks at all costs.

The points made re: HC changes that prompt scheme changes nails it for me...

I agree that matching to scheme is going to be the way to go, ESP. as one plays out multiple years in CCM...

Funny about that Lions book assertion I made: it seems that there are scripts and possibly slider settings that trigger run / pass splits this year that are wildly different from game to game...

Once again, generics will eliminate that...

Looking very forward to what you conclude out about Legends books / usage!

Continued thanks!