Your very own camera argument thread.

[Old Mr T]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

BACKBREAKER IS NOT TRYING TO BE LIKE MADDEN.

It is intentionally using a different camera angle and a different approach to playing the game of football. It also just happens to be the first football game to actually use real physics. Backbreaker is meant to be played as a player, on the field - not as a God of Football with the all-seeing eyes of the zoomed out full field camera. The old camera is a crutch. It allows you to see things you shouldn't be able to see and makes the game easier. We finally have a game where you actually have to look at your WR before you throw it to him. We finally have a game where you might actually NOT SEE the open guy and end up getting sacked. We finally have a game where you can actually follow where the QB is looking, without a flashlight effect on the field, and be able to anticipate where a pass is going before it's thrown. This game is closer to real football than anything we've ever had before (and even if there are CPU offensive AI issues, they won't matter for human vs human play) - and you want to take that away by sticking in the old classic camera.

ADDING THE MADDEN CAMERA DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME

Some of you just don't get it.

/ban me if you want, I don't care.

I too want physics in football, but I also want to see what's going on.

An offline-only classic camera would be great. I could then enjoy the amazing gameplay with a camera view that works for me and it wouldn't affect you in any way.

As for the passing in classic camera, well the controls would remain the same, so you'd still have to cycle through receivers before throwing. Also, when I throw to a player I'm normally watching that intended target prior to throwing, so the QB is still exposed to unexpected hits.

I know you think I "don't get it", but what I think you keep failing to understand is that I want to enjoy this game in all it's splendor and witness the amazing physics. The fact that you think the addition of a classic camera will "defeat the whole point of the game" surprises me. You make the game sound like a gimmick, an illusion of sorts which would be destroyed by a camera angle which actually lets you view the action. I don't believe this game is as fragile as you insinuate.

Listen, we're not talking about implementing gameplay changes, I just want a different camera angle.

[Buckeyes_Doc]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

This isn't about Madden. Many sports games have multiple camera angles to choose from during gameplay. The option would only be a plus and not take away from those who prefer on the field action.

For example, when I play 2k hockey, I play from the side view for a few games then I switch to the classic up and down view.

Thank you, all I will say is having only one camera angle for a game made in 2010 is a bad decision. I guess having options is a bad thing suddenly. We as gamers always want options because not all of us play the same. Asking for multiple camera angles in a sports game should not cause this much argument. I'm out of this thread though, nothing more needed to say.

[Danimal]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

Madden has been the only football game for quite some time and is the benchmark for football games. Surely comparisons are to be expected when a new football game is released?

Comparisons are fine, that is not whats going on in this thread.

[gridironjunky]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

We have options. We have the option of playing bb with there first person perspective football gaming experience and we have the option of playing the traditional broadcast view that madden offers. I don't quite get why people are down on bb for being a different football experience. I understand if people want physics in madden, I do to now especially after seeing how well they work in a football game. Madden will adapt sooner or later. As for now I think the people who are griping about bb camera need to go to the madden threads and gripe about the lack of a physics based engine not the other way around. Bb was clearly made to be played from a first person perspective, not liking that means just play madden which wasn't built to be played from that perspective. They aren't the same game. They are different takes on the same sport.

[bkrich83]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

What does lack of options have to do with Madden. Why is it a select few feel the need to defend this game to the death no matter how illogical their defense is? Why is it when they have no valid defense they feel the need to resort to hammering Madden?

It's 2010 any sport game without camera options gets hammered as it should be. Why should BB be exempt from the same criticism as any sports game on the market? This game should be judged on it's own merits and as such lacks camera options.

[StormJH1]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

BACKBREAKER IS NOT TRYING TO BE LIKE MADDEN.

It is intentionally using a different camera angle and a different approach to playing the game of football. It also just happens to be the first football game to actually use real physics. Backbreaker is meant to be played as a player, on the field - not as a God of Football with the all-seeing eyes of the zoomed out full field camera. The old camera is a crutch. It allows you to see things you shouldn't be able to see and makes the game easier. We finally have a game where you actually have to look at your WR before you throw it to him. We finally have a game where you might actually NOT SEE the open guy and end up getting sacked. We finally have a game where you can actually follow where the QB is looking, without a flashlight effect on the field, and be able to anticipate where a pass is going before it's thrown. This game is closer to real football than anything we've ever had before (and even if there are CPU offensive AI issues, they won't matter for human vs human play) - and you want to take that away by sticking in the old classic camera.

ADDING THE MADDEN CAMERA DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME

Some of you just don't get it.


/ban me if you want, I don't care.

This point is well taken, and it gets back to the basic question of "When does a game become too realistic to be...fun?" I think Backbreaker is fun--I'm playing the heck out of the demo and am now pre-ordered. But it's a fair criticism to wonder how many people are going to want to play a game where they only see about maybe 25 to 50% of what is happening on the field (particularly on defense).

In my opinion, Madden went too far the opposite direction with the "God camera", but as a general rule of thumb in all video games, video gamers like to feel empowered. There's a reason that Be a Pro mode wasn't a riproaring success in Madden...playing with just guy and doing one particular task on a given play feels somewhat small compared to what you usually do, which is play the role of battlefield general moving all the pieces at will.

What Backbreaker is trying to do is generate excitement by limiting your knowledge of your surroundings. In other words, it's a lot more exciting (I think) turning the corner with a running back and now knowing precisely when the defender may catch up to you. The only time I really have an issue with that type of gameplay is when it's a Capcom/Resident Evil situation where your character is performing pretty simple tasks, but the controls make it so clunky that there's "excitement" in trying perform even menial tasks.

[mestevo]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

As someone who enjoys Superstar mode in moderation, I don't mind the defensive camera (along with the LT locking on the ball) and wish I could just play defense over the course of the game usually.

Offense is just another beast entirely though, it doesn't need to be the entire field, but it needs to back out a little bit more, and up a tad. I like realistic, but I'm not a professional football player, I can't physically feel the pressure that I've been trained to avoid, and I can't clearly see over the offensive and defensive lines like a real QB has been doing for years.

Heck, they could even make it a mechanic, the more seasoned and successful you get, the wider the camera gets for you. Get sacked a bunch in a game, or are brand new to the field, you get something similar to what we see now... with successful running and rhythm adjusting the camera to a more comfortable spot.

[kehlis]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

ADDING THE MADDEN CAMERA DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME

It's not the "Madden cam". It's the camera we have been using for at least 20 years dating back to this game:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Obviously there are slight differences and there were much more restrictions but the point I'm making is that you keep trying to turn this into a debate against another game when it has nothing to do with it.

Some of us just prefer the option to use the camera we have always used for games. I don't care if you love the camera or if that is what they were going for. If they are okay with limiting options and losing sales because of it, so be it.

And no one is bashing the current Backbreaker camera though most seem to agree there could be tweaks to it, but instead just asking for the option we have always had.

What about that is so hard to understand?

[AirLobo23]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

Personally I think the current camera angle takes away from what could end up being a fabulous game.

I am not sure how someone in the year 2010 could defend the decision to have one option on camera angle with a straight face, unless they simply want to defend all things BB as if it could do no wrong. And save the current camera angle is more realistic, because it's not. Sensory deprivation for the sake of sensory deprivation does not make it more realistic.

According to some of those that defend the game at all costs no matter how ridiculous they sound, if I don't like the camera angle then the BB devs don't want my business. So be it.

Post of the year nominee

[lofeazy]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

I agree that the camera needs to be tweak,But ask for god view is going to far.Its like asking Gears of war to be played in first person view.(With a lack of camera options that game must be doing bad.) You still have 2 other video football games you can play with the god-view.

[Buckeyes_Doc]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

I agree that the camera needs to be tweak,But ask for god view is going to far.Its like asking Gears of war to be played in first person view.(With a lack of camera options that game must be doing bad.) You still have 2 other video football games you can play with the god-view.

God of War 3 is irrelevant here. If you do not want to play "god view" then simply do not choose it or leave the camera at default. What is the issue with having options?

So your saying it should be tweaked, well it probably won't. So wouldn't you like to have other options in the game to choose from, instead of being stuck with a camera that you do not fully like?

[AirLobo23]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

I agree that the camera needs to be tweak,But ask for god view is going to far.Its like asking Gears of war to be played in first person view.(With a lack of camera options that game must be doing bad.) You still have 2 other video football games you can play with the god-view.

Explain why it's going too far? So what if i have two other fball games that i can play with the traditional camera.... I want to play BB that way too or at least have tye option to do so...

Isn't this one of the BIG issues with the other fball games?? Not providing the user with choices?

[kehlis]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

I agree that the camera needs to be tweak,But ask for god view is going to far.Its like asking Gears of war to be played in first person view.(With a lack of camera options that game must be doing bad.) You still have 2 other video football games you can play with the god-view.

Again, for the umpteenth time, this has nothing to do with any other game (especially non-sport games, still don't know why they are being brought up) people are here, in this forum to discuss this game because we are interested in THIS GAME.

Stop deflecting by bringing up any other game. We are simply asking, why is there no other camera option?

[roadman]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

What does lack of options have to do with Madden. Why is it a select few feel the need to defend this game to the death no matter how illogical their defense is? Why is it when they have no valid defense they feel the need to resort to hammering Madden?

It's 2010 any sport game without camera options gets hammered as it should be. Why should BB be exempt from the same criticism as any sports game on the market? This game should be judged on it's own merits and as such lacks camera options.

The voice of reason.

[AirLobo23]

Re: Your very own camera argument thread.

I'm anxious for the newness of this game to wear off. I predict the majority of people who claim BB is perfect and can do no wrong, will be singing a much different tune come mid-June.