The legend of Big Ben Grows

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  • kehlis
    Moderator
    • Jul 2008
    • 27738

    #76
    Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

    Originally posted by mKoz26
    I'm 99% sure Kyle Orton has a better career record as a starter than Drew Brees. Who's the better QB?

    Flawed logic.
    Pretty much proves my buddy steelcurtain's point.

    He may not put up the statistics Bree's does, he is too busy winning games.

    Comment

    • steelcurtain311
      Banned
      • Feb 2009
      • 2087

      #77
      Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

      Defense plays a huge role in every good QB's wins. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning wouldn't win **** if not for their defense. So if you want to talk about flawed logic, look no further than the "Ben's defense carries him" stupidity, because that's honestly what it is. It's just blind hate to try and discredit a guy.

      Comment

      • mKoz26
        In case you forgot...
        • Jan 2009
        • 4685

        #78
        Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

        Originally posted by kehlis
        Pretty much proves my buddy steelcurtain's point.

        He may not put up the statistics Bree's does, he is too busy winning games.
        If you honestly believe that Orton is the better QB, I'm done discussing the subject.
        Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

        @CDonkey26

        Originally posted by baumy300
        Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

        Comment

        • mKoz26
          In case you forgot...
          • Jan 2009
          • 4685

          #79
          Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

          Originally posted by steelcurtain311
          Defense plays a huge role in every good QB's wins. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning wouldn't win **** if not for their defense.


          Peyton Manning's defense was average until 2006. He went to the playoffs many times despite his defense.
          Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

          @CDonkey26

          Originally posted by baumy300
          Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

          Comment

          • kehlis
            Moderator
            • Jul 2008
            • 27738

            #80
            Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

            Originally posted by mKoz26
            If you honestly believe that Orton is the better QB, I'm done discussing the subject.
            Nah, not even I am that crazy.

            By "he" I meant Roethlisberger, that's my bad.

            Comment

            • steelcurtain311
              Banned
              • Feb 2009
              • 2087

              #81
              Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

              Originally posted by mKoz26


              Peyton Manning's defense was average until 2006. He went to the playoffs many times despite his defense.
              And he won nothing until his defense stepped up. What was the constant factor in all Peyton Manning playoff games? Peyton Manning losing. Then his D plays out of their minds for one postseason, and they get to play Rex Grossman in the SB, and they win. Peyton didn't even play well in that postseason.

              Meanwhile, the Steelers D got torched in the SB last year. But Ben Roethlisberger won the game. Weird how that works.

              Comment

              • mKoz26
                In case you forgot...
                • Jan 2009
                • 4685

                #82
                Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                And he won nothing until his defense stepped up. What was the constant factor in all Peyton Manning playoff games? Peyton Manning losing. Then his D plays out of their minds for one postseason, and they get to play Rex Grossman in the SB, and they win. Peyton didn't even play well in that postseason.

                Meanwhile, the Steelers D got torched in the SB last year. But Ben Roethlisberger won the game. Weird how that works.
                Torched to the tune of 23 points.

                And Ben only got 27 on an average (at best) defense.

                It is weird, isn't it.

                EDIT: And 7 of those points for the Steelers go to James Harrison. I totally forgot about that.
                Last edited by mKoz26; 09-13-2009, 02:02 AM.
                Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                @CDonkey26

                Originally posted by baumy300
                Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

                Comment

                • steelcurtain311
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 2087

                  #83
                  Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                  Oh, so now he should of put up more points? That's fair. See, it doesn't matter what he does, there's always going to be the people who want to hate for no particular reason. So they just find dumb reasons to try and discredit a guy.

                  Comment

                  • mKoz26
                    In case you forgot...
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 4685

                    #84
                    Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                    Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                    Oh, so now he should of put up more points? That's fair. See, it doesn't matter what he does, there's always going to be the people who want to hate for no particular reason. So they just find dumb reasons to try and discredit a guy.
                    Now that your point is ruined, I'm a "*****".

                    Okay, you're done. Good night.
                    Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                    @CDonkey26

                    Originally posted by baumy300
                    Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

                    Comment

                    • z Revis
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 13639

                      #85
                      Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                      Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                      And he won nothing until his defense stepped up. What was the constant factor in all Peyton Manning playoff games? Peyton Manning losing. Then his D plays out of their minds for one postseason, and they get to play Rex Grossman in the SB, and they win. Peyton didn't even play well in that postseason.
                      And that's exactly why people discredit Big Ben. His defense has been elite since he came into the league. What's the main factor in Championship teams? Defense. It always has been. This is all speculation, but can you honestly sit here and tell me that Peyton or Brees or McNabb or any other good QB wouldn't have more SB rings if they had the Steelers D?
                      Indianapolis Colts
                      Indiana Pacers
                      Indiana Hoosiers
                      Notre Dame Fighting Irish

                      Comment

                      • steelcurtain311
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 2087

                        #86
                        Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                        Now that your point is ruined, I'm a "*****".

                        Okay, you're done. Good night.
                        All you did was prove my point, that you have no legitimate reason to discredit him, other than he doesn't put up fantasy stats, even though he has before, and could if the Steelers were that kind of team.

                        He wins the game without his defense playing well, and it's "He didn't score enough points"....really? Do you not see the stupidity of that?

                        Originally posted by z Revis
                        And that's exactly why people discredit Big Ben. His defense has been elite since he came into the league. What's the main factor in Championship teams? Defense. It always has been. This is all speculation, but can you honestly sit here and tell me that Peyton or Brees or McNabb or any other good QB wouldn't have more SB rings if they had the Steelers D?
                        Drew Brees had a GREAT defense in San Diego. Donovan McNabb had a very good D the year they went to the SB. Peyton has had a top 10 defense (although I'm not positive on that) numerous times throughout his career.

                        Comment

                        • mKoz26
                          In case you forgot...
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 4685

                          #87
                          Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                          Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                          All you did was prove my point, that you have no legitimate reason to discredit him, other than he doesn't put up fantasy stats, even though he has before, and could if the Steelers were that kind of team.

                          He wins the game without his defense playing well, and it's "He didn't score enough points"....really? Do you not see the stupidity of that?
                          .
                          The reason I discredit him is because he played sloppy last night, and is overrated because of his defense. And what I find funny is that you use hypotheticals to prove all of your points. They aren't convincing anybody, trust me.

                          Oh, and nice created quote there. Did I say he didn't score enough points? No. But I'm telling you right now, Ben's 20 points were not showing of an elite status, unless you are a blind homer.
                          Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                          @CDonkey26

                          Originally posted by baumy300
                          Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

                          Comment

                          • mKoz26
                            In case you forgot...
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 4685

                            #88
                            Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                            Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                            Drew Brees had a GREAT defense in San Diego. Donovan McNabb had a very good D the year they went to the SB. Peyton has had a top 10 defense (although I'm not positive on that) numerous times throughout his career.
                            2002 Chargers Defense was ranked 30th.
                            2003 Chargers Defense was ranked 27th.
                            2004 Chargers Defense was ranked 18th.
                            2005 Chargers Defense was ranked 13th.

                            GREAT defenses!

                            You're killing your credibility, man.

                            EDIT: Don't forget about Donovan's 10th ranked defense in '04.
                            Last edited by mKoz26; 09-13-2009, 02:44 AM.
                            Bears | Bulls | Cubs | Illinois | #Team3Some

                            @CDonkey26

                            Originally posted by baumy300
                            Yeah, she may be a bit of a beotch, but you get back to me when you find out a way to motorboat personality...

                            Comment

                            • z Revis
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 13639

                              #89
                              Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                              Originally posted by steelcurtain311
                              Drew Brees had a GREAT defense in San Diego. Donovan McNabb had a very good D the year they went to the SB. Peyton has had a top 10 defense (although I'm not positive on that) numerous times throughout his career.
                              What? First of all you didn't answer my question, you just bounced around it. And when did Brees ever have a "GREAT" defense in SD? His defense was ranked 30th in 02, 27th in 03, 18th in 04, and 13th in 05 which was his last year in SD. How in the hell is that great? McNabb's defense has been good throughout his career, but nothing like the Steelers D. And Peyton has had a top 10 defense like twice? Maybe? They've been completely average his whole career. Never did he have a consistently good defense that could actually win games for him like the Steelers D can. Now please, answer my question. Can you honestly tell me that those QB's wouldn't have more rings if they had the Steelers D?
                              Indianapolis Colts
                              Indiana Pacers
                              Indiana Hoosiers
                              Notre Dame Fighting Irish

                              Comment

                              • steelcurtain311
                                Banned
                                • Feb 2009
                                • 2087

                                #90
                                Re: The legend of Big Ben Grows

                                First off, I don't care what number his defense ranked. When Merriman/Williams broke out, their D was TOUGH. They were stopping the run, they were getting tons of pressure, they were forcing turnovers, it was a very good defense and they could of won a championship with it. But go ahead, the stats on an internet page always tell the real story....to people who don't watch the games. You are the ones with the hypoctheticals of "If his defense wasn't so good..." when I gave you an example of his defense playing bad, and you discredit him for not scoring enough points, despite WINNING the game in the final minutes. Oh, and the game just so happens to be the SB.

                                Yes Revis, those QB's wouldn't have more rings on the Steelers defense, because none of them could play behind that line. Most QB's can't play when they're getting beat up like that, while Ben is the exception to the rule. He's found ways to win despite it. Peyton would NEVER win behind that line, never. He always gets rattled when he's getting pressure a lot.

                                I don't understand it. He needs to put up better fantasy stats to be in the same league as the best? He did that in 2007, and people still make the same claims about him. The guy has proven it time and time again that he can get it done like any QB out there.

                                I think it's just the case of Ben becoming the new media hype machine guy. Just like Brady and Peyton, there's always going to be the hate.

                                Comment

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