Best runningback of all time

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

The one RB you didn't select was Payton.

It's pretty difficult to pick holes in his game, like Brown.

Really no holes in Payton's game. Blocked like a fullback. Ran routes and caught the ball like a receiver. Ran inside with authority but could take it outside as well and was a home run threat. Hell Payton was even an accomplished passer.

[elgreazy1]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Hmm, very true, well, maybe Payton it is.

[ActLikeYouCrow]

Re: Best runningback of all time

barry's achievements stand on their own so the poor ol barry had to do it on his own argument isnt absolutely necessary, but it is worth noting he performed at an all pro level for 10 years despites changes in offensive scheme from run and shoot, to single back with a tight end, to i-formation, good qb play or poor qb play, pro bowl wideouts or no pro bowl wideouts. barry obviously wasnt a good blocker and he isnt one of the great short yardage runners of all time, but the lions didnt have a great run blocking line and didnt have a fullback much of his career. he still had a lot of td's his first 3 years. when the lions started taking him out in short yardage i dont really hold that against him from the perspective of keeping his workload down so that more carries will be available in an area of the field where you might need a bigger play. i think his td output in earlier years proves he wasnt a liability in short yardage.

as for the playoffs, this is where the supporting cast comes into play. youre talking playing better teams on the road, without consistent qb play, and without a physical run blocking oline. he was barry at his best in his two home playoff games. nfc title game @washington the lions were outmatched, barry only got 11 carries. 1994 @green bay negative yardage game, they still had a chance to win on a late pass into the endzone that was ruled out of bounds. could be looked at as a testament to how much attention barry got, that they still had a chance to win.
1995 @washington, scott mitchell threw 4 interceptions and the lions were down 38-7 at halftime, barry finished with only 10 carries.
1997 @tampa bay, the bucs held him to 18 att 65 yards. bucs led 20-0 at halftime, scott mitchell was 10-25 78 yards 1 int.


i pick barry though he wasnt the most complete back because of the eye factor of making something out of nothing like arguably noone else ever, but also consistent great play. his five 1500+ yard rushing seasons, five 5+ ypc seasons and 10 straight 1000 yard seasons never averaging less than 4.3 ypc. that 1997 season is the best rushing season period to me.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

that 1997 season is the best rushing season period to me.

how was it better than Dickerson's 1984 season?

[ActLikeYouCrow]

Re: Best runningback of all time

the 6.1 ypc vs 5.6 ypc and 14 straight 100 yard games are what make it more special to me. comparing some of their peers at the time, dickerson ended up with 400+ more yards than the guy who finished 2nd, barry 300+. in 97 only one other rb averaged 5+ ypc and the next guy after that averaged 1.3 ypc less than sanders. in 84 five guys averaged 5+ ypc, but only one other than dickerson rushed for 1000 yards. those stats are all open to interpretation and im biased, but i think barry had the best rushing season ever in both college and the nfl. the best nfl rushing season is arguable

[ZB9]

Re: Best runningback of all time

barry's achievements stand on their own so the poor ol barry had to do it on his own argument isnt absolutely necessary, but it is worth noting he performed at an all pro level for 10 years despites changes in offensive scheme from run and shoot, to single back with a tight end, to i-formation, good qb play or poor qb play, pro bowl wideouts or no pro bowl wideouts. barry obviously wasnt a good blocker and he isnt one of the great short yardage runners of all time, but the lions didnt have a great run blocking line and didnt have a fullback much of his career. he still had a lot of td's his first 3 years. when the lions started taking him out in short yardage i dont really hold that against him from the perspective of keeping his workload down so that more carries will be available in an area of the field where you might need a bigger play. i think his td output in earlier years proves he wasnt a liability in short yardage.

as for the playoffs, this is where the supporting cast comes into play. youre talking playing better teams on the road, without consistent qb play, and without a physical run blocking oline. he was barry at his best in his two home playoff games. nfc title game @washington the lions were outmatched, barry only got 11 carries. 1994 @green bay negative yardage game, they still had a chance to win on a late pass into the endzone that was ruled out of bounds. could be looked at as a testament to how much attention barry got, that they still had a chance to win.
1995 @washington, scott mitchell threw 4 interceptions and the lions were down 38-7 at halftime, barry finished with only 10 carries.
1997 @tampa bay, the bucs held him to 18 att 65 yards. bucs led 20-0 at halftime, scott mitchell was 10-25 78 yards 1 int.


i pick barry though he wasnt the most complete back because of the eye factor of making something out of nothing like arguably noone else ever, but also consistent great play. his five 1500+ yard rushing seasons, five 5+ ypc seasons and 10 straight 1000 yard seasons never averaging less than 4.3 ypc. that 1997 season is the best rushing season period to me.

very good points imo. Barry was OBVIOUSLY great. Whether or not he was the greatest running back ever (which many people feel that he is), he was certainly the most electric ball carrier of all time imo.

Personally, I would take Emmitt over Barry because Emmitt was a better all around running back and Emmitt didnt have to be taken out of the game like Sanders often was in short yardage situations. I would want a back that will be on the field in every situation, especially short yardage.

Smith's style was more conducive to the Cowboys' system and the Cowboys' system was more conducive to winning in the loaded defensive oriented NFC East and against teams like the 49ers and Packers in the playoffs. With fairness to Barry and the Lions, they didnt exactly have the type of personnel to compete against those types of teams regardless of what kind of system they utilized, although their system was probably part of it also and their overall personnel was better than many people say.

anyway, it's all about what type of back you prefer and what type of system you prefer. You cant go wrong with any of these great, legendary backs.

[ZB9]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Ive been seeing a lot of people on the interwebz overrating Emmitt's oline lately, not that having a good line discredits Emmitt in any way like some people parrot, considering its football and football is the ultimate team sport. I dont understand how playing on a good team should discredit someone, or how that ridiculous criteria is reserved for Emmitt Smith. It's absurd...anyway, "Big Easy Golf" had a great point about Emmitt's "amazing" oline that you hear about so much. It was good, but people go way overboard

"Big Easy Golf" states,

let me remind people..... mark tuinea was a converted DT and was a nobody on a 1-15 team before emmitt arrived

nate newton was a UDFA released by the redskins, picked up by landry, and was an afterthought before emmitt

emmitt lost mark stepnoski after 92' who was replaced by a 37 year old ray donaldson

larry allen didn't arrive on the scene until 94', after emmitt had already won 3 rushing titles

erik williams was never the same player after his car accident in 94'

they lost pro bowl o lineman gogan, ron stone, john gesek to free agency

so i ask, did the line make emmitt? or did emmitt make the line? i'll give you larry allen (the greatest guard and arguable the greatest o lineman of all time) and erik williams (the most dominating o lineman in football until his car accident).......but after that i'd say emmitt made those guys famous, not the other way around

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

the 6.1 ypc vs 5.6 ypc and 14 straight 100 yard games are what make it more special to me. comparing some of their peers at the time, dickerson ended up with 400+ more yards than the guy who finished 2nd, barry 300+. in 97 only one other rb averaged 5+ ypc and the next guy after that averaged 1.3 ypc less than sanders. in 84 five guys averaged 5+ ypc, but only one other than dickerson rushed for 1000 yards. those stats are all open to interpretation and im biased, but i think barry had the best rushing season ever in both college and the nfl. the best nfl rushing season is arguable

Best rushing season in college, without a doubt. I don't see how you could possibly put him above Dickerson's 84 year. 5.6 ypc on that many carries is pretty impressive. Difference between 5.6 and 6.1 isn't enough to sway me.

Can't use the talent around him argument. Sanders played on an All-Pro team compared to Dickerson.

I just don't see anyway to put Barry above Dickerson's 84 year. I do agree, Barry's year at Oklahoma St. is without peer, and I doubt it ever gets matched.

[Jeffx]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Agreed, as a football player Juice was unstoppable.

To me, he's second all-time behind Jim Brown.

[Game4fun]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Emmit Smith is my favorite of all time! I dont understand when people say he had the best line of all time! Ask yourself how many years did he have the greatest line in history? A handfull?

I didnt see Jim Brown play but If I had to make a choice I can see no argument against Jim Brown that would make me change my mind.

Barry Sanders was the man! Not one of my favorites but he should be in top 3 IMO!

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Emmit Smith is my favorite of all time! I dont understand when people say he had the best line of all time! Ask yourself how many years did he have the greatest line in history? A handfull?

I didnt see Jim Brown play but If I had to make a choice I can see no argument against Jim Brown that would make me change my mind.

Barry Sanders was the man! Not one of my favorites but he should be in top 3 IMO!

the only argument against jim brown is that people didn't get to see him play and that he played in a different era. neither of which has anything to do with his skills, accomplishments or the lack of ANY holes in his game. i think if given the choice between a prime (fill in the blank with a runing back) and a prime jim brown, you take jim brown and you don't think twice.

[wheelman990]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I would put Emmitt in my top 5.

That being said, every single best o line ever lists name the early 90's dallas line in the top 3. You cant argue Emitt made the line any more then they made him, thats just fans looking for reasons out of there ____. What we do know, is not only did Emitt have a serious all pro line, but perhaps the greatest fullback blocker of all time, jay novachek for a blocking TE, and physical M Irvin blocking as a receiver to name a few. He also was on a super team.

I say this to show Emmitt was in prime position. We saw what he could do in the best ideal situation a HB could hope for.There were holes for Smith that a truck could drive through and theres plenty of gameplay vids to show it. Just watch some highlights. He had some great runs, but often the first 5 yards were free.

receiving- look at Emmitt and Barrys stats. Lokking on stats per year averages, Sanders may have been better(and better yards per attempt to boot). This shows how rumors make a guy great. Its all hype.

Emmitt was on a team that had SO many fans, Barry was on the Lions. I watched ecery Lions game, but most people only saw a few Barry highlights and judged by hearsay at the time.

Emmitt had great years during the great team years, but it QUICKLY diminished the years to follow. Sure he physically was durable, but productively there were better(Sanders was all pro EVERY YEAR).

Basically we saw Smiths peak potential, and I still feel several others have played ibetter with a much less ideal team.

I'll put Smith #4 all time.


1Sanders
2Payton
3Brown
4Smith

Dickerson said "Barry was the only guy to make me go wow!"

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/08/08/thirty-two-great-running-backs/?eref=sihp

i agree with his top four in order.

[mKoz26]

Re: Best runningback of all time

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/08/0...cks/?eref=sihp

i agree with his top four in order.

I can definitely respect that list. You really can't go wrong with Brown, Payton, Smith, or Sanders. There's an argument to be made for each one.

[ZB9]

Re: Best runningback of all time

You cant argue Emmitt made the line any more then they made him, thats just fans looking for reasons out of there ____.

you certainly can argue it. The perception of those Cowboys offensive line has taken on a life of it's own, and in the process a very good offensive line has been made legendary. It's like a fish you caught 10 years ago getting bigger and bigger every time you tell the story

We'll see how great that line really was when it's time to put up or shut up and get some of them in the HoF. No line can be "one of the greatest of all time" without a few HoF'ers. Larry Allen will probably be the only HOF'er in the group and Smith had won 3 rushing titles and a superbowl MVP before Allen was even drafted.

That's one of the most impressive things on Emmitt's resume that some actually started thinking those guys were "great". You'll remember that no one was praising those guys (Newton, Tuinei, Gogan) in the mid to late 80s. They all had plenty of time to prove how "great" they were before Emmitt got there to make them look like stars.

Mighty suspicious, the timing on that deal. It got even more ridiculous as the Cowboys just kept plugging in new guys and never once ended up with a guy that wasn't "great"....amazing. Of course the Cowboys lost that perfect scouting ability once Emmitt started declining. Incredible coincidence I'm sure.

What we do know, is not only did Emitt have a serious all pro line, but perhaps the greatest fullback blocker of all time, jay novachek for a blocking TE, and physical M Irvin blocking as a receiver to name a few. He also was on a super team.

yes he had a loaded team. He also had to play against loaded teams. Smith played in one of the most loaded divisions in NFL history in the NFC East and had to go through the playoffs in an NFC that had won something like 12 straight superbowls until the late 90s and was dominant with all time great teams like the 49ers and Packers.

There is a double standard much of the time in such discussions when it comes to Emmitt Smith. He obviously wasnt the only great player that played on a great team but still many people use this as a criteria to discredit Smith. This double standard reserved for Emmitt Smith becomes clear when you look at the treatment Smith's classmate this year got.

Jerry Rice had the best situation a wide receiver could ever hope to have and that's never been held against him. Ask any of the other great receivers if they would have wanted to join the defending Super Bowl champs with probably the greatest quarterback ever running a revolutionary passing offense in a weak division. Do you think any of them would prefer the deal they got instead? I imagine Andre Rison "would have" loved to have played with those San Francisco team and I imagine he "would have" been better with the Niners. Left Eye "might not have" even burned down Andre's house "if" he "would have" been with the Niners.

I say this to show Emmitt was in prime position. We saw what he could do in the best ideal situation a HB could hope for.There were holes for Smith that a truck could drive through and theres plenty of gameplay vids to show it. Just watch some highlights. He had some great runs, but often the first 5 yards were free.

In 15 years, yes there were some holes "you could drive a truck through". However, for people to act like it was that way every game over his entire career is wrong.

As far as highlights, I dont need to watch highlights. I watched every Cowboys game during the Emmitt Smith's career. I dont judge players mainly by highlights anyway, but look at these highlights and tell me that all of the holes were big enough to drive a truck through, that Smith was only a product of his line and he didnt make his line better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvEXqWcouBg

receiving- look at Emmitt and Barrys stats.

Both were superb pass catchers. However, from 91-95, Emmitt averaged 55 receptions a year. Sanders never caught 50 passes in a season.

Lokking on stats per year averages, Sanders may have been better(and better yards per attempt to boot). This shows how rumors make a guy great. Its all hype.

Emmitt was on a team that had SO many fans, Barry was on the Lions. I watched ecery Lions game, but most people only saw a few Barry highlights and judged by hearsay at the time.

Emmitt had great years during the great team years, but it QUICKLY diminished the years to follow. Sure he physically was durable, but productively there were better(Sanders was all pro EVERY YEAR)

because Smith didnt quit at the point Sanders did

but compare their first 10 seasons:

Rushing Titles: Emmitt 4, Barry had 4
Pro Bowls: Emmitt 8, Barry 10
Rushing Yards: Emmitt 13,963, Barry 15,269
Rushing TD's: Emmitt 135, Barry 99
Playoff Rushing Yards: Emmitt 1928, Barry 386
Playoff Rushing TDs: Emmitt 22, Barry 1
MVP's: Emmitt 1, Barry 1
Super Bowl MVP's: Emmitt 1, Barry 0
Super Bowl rings: Emmitt 3, Barry 0

all time great production by both players obviously

Basically we saw Smiths peak potential, and I still feel several others have played ibetter with a much less ideal team.

That is what I dont understand. How does "who played better with the worse team" makes sense as a main criteria in the ultimate team sport

when folks have to resort to "if's" and "would haves", then they lose the argument

I'll put Smith #4 all time.


1Sanders
2Payton
3Brown
4Smith

Dickerson said "Barry was the only guy to make me go wow!"

our lists look pretty similar

imo,

1. Payton
2. Smith
3. Brown
4. Dickerson
5. Sanders

Its tough to put Sanders over some of these guys imo when Sanders had to be taken out of the game in certain situations

It's very difficult to rank these players obviously, and you cant go wrong with any of these GOAT backs. It just depends on what type of great back you prefer and what system you would want to run