Best runningback of all time

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Holy Smokes!

I know Harrison was a great WR and all and I knew that he and Manning were the most potent QB/WR duo ever but I just don't think of him as putting up those huge kind of numbers in his career.

It really seems like Peyton Manning overshadowed Harrison to the point that you don't see him in that way.

depending on peyton/waynes longevity wayne could end up with almost equal numbers

Manning has definitely overshadowed them both

[lonewolf371]

Re: Best runningback of all time

you obviously didnt read my first post. The point is there was little drop off between brown and kelly. the dropoff came when the linemen started going downhill

heres browns last 3 seasons vs the 1st 3 with kelly

291 att, 1863 yards, 12 TDs, 6.4 YPC
280 att, 1446 yards, 7 TDs, 5.2 YPC
289 att, 1544 yards, 17 TDs, 5.3 YPC

209 att, 1141 yards, 15 TDs, 5.5 YPC
235 att, 1205 yards, 11 TDs, 5.1 YPC
248 att, 1239 yards, 16 TDs, 5.0 YPC

I know exactly what you meant but I don't agree with your interpretation. Look at the yardage and attempts. Huge, massive difference. You can't ignore that; running backs don't just magically perform at the same level if you give them an extra 5 carries a game over an entire season.

depending on peyton/waynes longevity wayne could end up with almost equal numbers

Manning has definitely overshadowed them both

No way. Wayne started slower and he's declining earlier. He hasn't even been Manning's best weapon over the last couple of years.

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I know exactly what you meant but I don't agree with your interpretation. Look at the yardage and attempts. Huge, massive difference. You can't ignore that; running backs don't just magically perform at the same level if you give them an extra 5 carries a game over an entire season.

im not saying leeroy is better then brown of even close to the same level but just look at kelly's stats from those 3 years compared with his next 4 years. Its not like the browns were holding kelly back becuase he couldnt handle the carries he just didnt get the opportunity. in those 3 seasons he lead the league in carries twice, total touches twice, yards twice, yards from scrimmage twice, TDs 3 times, and YPC twice. after that he never led the league in any of those categories again.

No way. Wayne started slower and he's declining earlier. He hasn't even been Manning's best weapon over the last couple of years.

they started out the same both with 3 sub 1,000 yard seasons then into a long string of 1,000 yard seasons. Also wayne isnt declining earlier he had his best season last year.

Harrisons stats at 32
845 rec, 11185 yards, 99 TDs

Waynes stats at 32 (his current age)
787 rec, 10748 yards, 69 TDs

he probably wont catch harrison in TDs but rec and yards is a real possibility

[lonewolf371]

Re: Best runningback of all time

im not saying leeroy is better then brown of even close to the same level but just look at kelly's stats from those 3 years compared with his next 4 years. Its not like the browns were holding kelly back becuase he couldnt handle the carries he just didnt get the opportunity. in those 3 seasons he lead the league in carries twice, total touches twice, yards twice, yards from scrimmage twice, TDs 3 times, and YPC twice. after that he never led the league in any of those categories again.



they started out the same both with 3 sub 1,000 yard seasons then into a long string of 1,000 yard seasons. Also wayne isnt declining earlier he had his best season last year.

Harrisons stats at 32
845 rec, 11185 yards, 99 TDs

Waynes stats at 32 (his current age)
787 rec, 10748 yards, 69 TDs

he probably wont catch harrison in TDs but rec and yards is a real possibility

Well of course Jim Brown had an awesome offensive line, but still that's a huge drop-off in production from one Hall-of-Famer to another. Says a lot about Jim Brown, to me.

As for Wayne last year was his best year only for receptions. As a guy that has watched him consistently over the course of his career, I can tell you with complete confidence that he has declined significantly. The only reason he had so many receptions last year was because Austin Collie and Dallas Clark both got injured. Both had been better play-makers than Wayne prior to injury.

As for 60 receptions, 400 yards, that's a sizeable gap even with the fact that Wayne got his stats with an extra season. Wayne doesn't have a lot of career left to make that up. He also started his NFL career earlier, so his body has taken about the number of hits of a 33 year-old Marvin Harrison.

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Well of course Jim Brown had an awesome offensive line, but still that's a huge drop-off in production from one Hall-of-Famer to another. Says a lot about Jim Brown, to me.

its not that much of a dropoff considering leroy was still leading the league in yards. Its just shows that brown would have been a HOFer with any line and kelly wouldnt have. If you really wanna see a drop off look at the 3 years after barry sanders retired.

as for wayne time will tell but 4 more 80 rec 1100 yard seasons puts him over harrison in those categories and i think thats a real possibility if he and manning stay together.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

i still dont see how calling jim brown the 4th best all-time is a slight. When youre looking at the best of all time teams and who you played with can be a factor. Sure having harrison doesnt lessen peyton manning but i think it has lessened harrisons status. i mean harrison is 2nd all time in rec, 6th in yards and 5th in TDs but would you call him one of the top 5 WRs of all time?

i see it as a slight because he was, without any question, the best player of his era. as in, literally every great player from his era bows down to him as the boat.

then, every running back since him has used him as the measuring stick, with arguably everyone but maybe walter payton falling noticeably short.

that is to say, if everyone that saw you, played against you or studied you thinks you're the best running back ever, for someone to say you're 4th best is a slight.

and there is a good case to be made that marvin harrison is a top 5 wide receiver of the modern era. where he ranks amongst guys like don hutson and raymond berry is questionable and up for debate. but as far as guys in the past 30 years, i don't see any problem with him being in the top 5.

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

i see it as a slight because he was, without any question, the best player of his era. as in, literally every great player from his era bows down to him as the boat.

i think this is arguable. Him vs Johnny U would be a good debate. but its not about eras. Its about best all time.

then, every running back since him has used him as the measuring stick, with arguably everyone but maybe walter payton falling noticeably short.

that is to say, if everyone that saw you, played against you or studied you thinks you're the best running back ever, for someone to say you're 4th best is a slight.

this is arguable aswell just look at the poll attached to this thread sanders and payton got more votes. Im guessing a lot of people here have him at least 3rd all-time

and there is a good case to be made that marvin harrison is a top 5 wide receiver of the modern era. where he ranks amongst guys like don hutson and raymond berry is questionable and up for debate. but as far as guys in the past 30 years, i don't see any problem with him being in the top 5.

were talking all time not eras. even though id still put him about 7th in this era

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

i think this is arguable. Him vs Johnny U would be a good debate. but its not about eras. Its about best all time.



this is arguable aswell just look at the poll attached to this thread sanders and payton got more votes. Im guessing a lot of people here have him at least 3rd all-time



were talking all time not eras. even though id still put him about 7th in this era

jim brown has long been called the best football player of all-time, and is often in the discussion for best athlete of all-time. johnny unitas is argued for quarterback, but not player.

and, not to discredit the opinions of people here, but their opinions are a bit jaded as most have not seen anything before 1990. most of those who voted even admitted that they're only going off of players they saw in live action, which is why sanders has so many votes. football luminaries and respected minds in the football community wouldn't entertain such a thought.

case in point: brown was #2 on the nfl's top 100 players of all time. walter payton was #5. johnny unitas was #6. barry sanders was #17.

as for marvin harrison, please name 6 better receivers from his era.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

i'll try to figure out who you'd put ahead of marvin. assuming you consider rice part of his era...

jerry rice
randy moss
terrell owens

that's really all you can present and have a valid argument about. isaac bruce, torry holt, hines ward and whomever else you present would fail.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Best runningback of all time

its not that much of a dropoff considering leroy was still leading the league in yards. Its just shows that brown would have been a HOFer with any line and kelly wouldnt have. If you really wanna see a drop off look at the 3 years after barry sanders retired.

as for wayne time will tell but 4 more 80 rec 1100 yard seasons puts him over harrison in those categories and i think thats a real possibility if he and manning stay together.

You can't say that all because it didn't happen. You can only look at the numbers the guy posted.

As for Wayne, 36 year-olds don't post 80 reception 1100 yard seasons unless they're Jerry Rice.

i think this is arguable. Him vs Johnny U would be a good debate. but its not about eras. Its about best all time.

Well during one of Johnny U's best seasons he and Jim Brown were on opposite teams in the championship game. Johnny U and the Colts got rolled.

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

i'll try to figure out who you'd put ahead of marvin. assuming you consider rice part of his era...

jerry rice
randy moss
terrell owens

that's really all you can present and have a valid argument about. isaac bruce, torry holt, hines ward and whomever else you present would fail.

Michael Irvin
Tim brown
James lofton

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Michael Irvin
Tim brown
James lofton

why and how are they better than marvin harrison?

james lofton isn't a peer of marvin harrison, as his career finished 3 years before marvin's began. but even if we just include the past 30 or some years as one total era, i'd love to hear your reasons.

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

why and how are they better than marvin harrison?

james lofton isn't a peer of marvin harrison, as his career finished 3 years before marvin's began. but even if we just include the past 30 or some years as one total era, i'd love to hear your reasons.

youre the one who set the era if you dont wanna count lofton id still say someone like andre johnson is equal or better than harrison.

rice, moss and irvin are obvious

tim brown had longevity of greatness and was more of an all around player being a pr/kr too.

TO gets a bad rep for destroying all of his teams off the field. but hes still 2nd only to jerry rice in yards and TDs

and johnson is just a physical specimen big, strong fast, can catch anything, plays hurt, is a great leader. Hes only 29 and his career numbers are already approaching HOF level. 3 years at his current rate and he'll be right at top 10 all time in yards and rec

[untrugby]

Re: Best runningback of all time

case in point: brown was #2 on the nfl's top 100 players of all time. walter payton was #5. johnny unitas was #6. barry sanders was #17.

and look at the fan votes from that list payton was 3, sanders was 4, brown was 9

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

and look at the fan votes from that list payton was 3, sanders was 4, brown was 9

yes, the fans overrate sanders because he was fascinating to watch and because the people who voted likely hadn't seen brown. your statement proves my point.