Best runningback of all time

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Again, this stat is pretty consistent. Throughout the annals of football RB's are, for the most part, measured on how many yards they put up. This hasn't changed and that's why nearly every legendary RB is up there in yards per game as well.



I've seen some of Payton's best games...heck nearly every game I've seen of him is a game where he performed great in.

As far as never hearing a football person say that Sanders is better than Payton, let's use something tangible. In a SI poll of players on who was the greatest player they saw, Sanders got 30% of the vote, Rice 22% and Payton 20% (these are players in the 2003 season however..Barry got 40% of the vote of players with 9 years of experience). In an ESPN poll of analyst, former HOF players, and coaches, Barry Sanders was ranked ahead of Walter Payton.

SI players poll from 2003? Of course Sanders wins that..

Again, for me it is tangible. Two names that pop up as best football players ever, Jerry Rice and Walter Payton, without fail (Jim Brown is unaminous with the old timers). Again, wasn't really a big topic of conversation, as most of my access to these people was to mine them for information on X's and O's and coaching techniques. But those two names are what always popped up.

If you think you've seen enough of Payton based on some games films. Ok. That's a lot of tape. Don't see how you could draw some of the conclusions you did based on seeing him play that much.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Again, everything else says otherwise. I keep bringing his final two years up because I know that offense and how north/south and restrictive it was. Sanders just made plays those years that left me shaking my head...and then he showed he could run with power and toughness. I just think we need to think about that before we say Barry couldn't be a north/south runner.

I think Barry is a fine north/south runner. His Oklahoma St. days can show you that.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Again, everything else says otherwise. I keep bringing his final two years up because I know that offense and how north/south and restrictive it was. Sanders just made plays those years that left me shaking my head...and then he showed he could run with power and toughness. I just think we need to think about that before we say Barry couldn't be a north/south runner.

well, my point was that if he was forced to run in an emmitt smith type of offense, or a baltimore ravens/tennessee titans type of offense from the late 90's and early 2000's, he wouldn't be as revered as he is now. that is to say, his most effective and noteworthy attributes aren't those the fit the typical bill for running backs, especially in those systems.

however, i agree with your point and would like to make sure i give him his due. he can run north/south and can do it well, i just don't think we'd hold him as highly as we do if he played in that type of system most of his career because we would miss out on what made him special.

[papasmurf]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Best pure runner I ever saw was Eric Dickerson in his prime. Not the best career of all time but for a 3 or 4 season span, I never saw anyone better.

i agree , he always looked like he was gliding, looked effortless even when he was running full speed. i think if he had remained with the rams behind that line he might of been up around 17'000 yds.

[roadman]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I've seen Payton and Sanders both play as they are both rivals of the Packers. I didn't watch tape, it was live and in living color. I lived in the Chicago area in 85 and saw every Bear game on TV that year. I have an autograph of Walter Payton, even though I'm a Packer fan.

I admire both as players and consummate professionals, even though Barry left the Lions abruptly.

With my own two eyes, without a doubt, the best RB between the two was Payton. For Payton's size, he could run through, over and around players. Everyone I know feels that Payton was the better back.

I don't think the Packers held Payton to -1 yds rushing, but they held Sanders to -1 yds rushing in a playoff game.

Barry was elusive and had the Billy White Shoes Johnson shiftiness to him and could turn opponents ankles on a dime.

Payton hurt you in more ways than one besides running the ball.

It's tough to find holes in Payton's game, but there are a few holes we are all aware of in Sanders game.

[ActLikeYouCrow]

Re: Best runningback of all time

barry could run inside and outside, if the hole was there inside he hit it. barry didnt need any more space to operate than any other running back, if anything less space due to his size and ability to create something out of nothing. you put barry in any offense and he's a hall of famer.

youtube wasnt around when barry retired.

[roadman]

Re: Best runningback of all time

^^^ You could say the same things about Payton.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

barry could run inside and outside, if the hole was there inside he hit it. barry didnt need any more space to operate than any other running back, if anything less space due to his size and ability to create something out of nothing. you put barry in any offense and he's a hall of famer.

youtube wasnt around when barry retired.

barry also often passed up the initial inside hole that had a guaranteed 5 yards for a chance to bounce outside and gain 20. that's what made him special, the unpredictable nature and the uncanny agility. if he was more conventional and took more inside runs, he would not be the barry sanders we know and love.

[MassNole]

Re: Best runningback of all time

George was a high volume guy, to his detriment. No one is ever the same after a 400 carry season. I thought he was pretty shifty and had a great size/speed combo.

I hate the Broncos, but to me Davis is a no brainer for the hall. His run before the knee surgery was as dominant as anyone, ever, including the likes of Barry Sanders.

What kills TD's HOF chances IMO is that Denver could plug bums like Orlandis Gary or Mike Anderson in that offense and they would put up Pro Bowl type seasons. I think even more than Emmitt Smith that TD was more a product of an outstanding OL and scheme than he was an exceptional talent.

[CW McGraw]

Re: Best runningback of all time

What kills TD's HOF chances IMO is that Denver could plug bums like Orlandis Gary or Mike Anderson in that offense and they would put up Pro Bowl type seasons. I think even more than Emmitt Smith that TD was more a product of an outstanding OL and scheme than he was an exceptional talent.

TD's playoff numbers are absolutely freakish though. How it physically possible for a guy to get nearly 370 carries and flourish against elite playoff teams? Has any RB ever had as great a playoff run as TD had in 97? Then he goes and wins the Super Bowl for the Broncos when he's practically blind. If TD were just some system RB that put up good numbers for bad teams that never accomplished anything, I could see him being left out of the conversation, but TD was the primary reason why those Broncos teams were as great as they were. He's absolutely a Hall of Famer in my mind. My hope is that he'll get in down the line like Lynn Swann did.

[MassNole]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Okay then explain bums putting up similar numbers in the same system?

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

What kills TD's HOF chances IMO is that Denver could plug bums like Orlandis Gary or Mike Anderson in that offense and they would put up Pro Bowl type seasons. I think even more than Emmitt Smith that TD was more a product of an outstanding OL and scheme than he was an exceptional talent.

let's look at the ten years surrounding and including terrell davis' stay.

1994 denver broncos (without td) - 16th in attempts, 23rd in yards, 3rd in td's, 24th in yards per attempt
1995 denver broncos (with td, shanahan's first year) - 16th in attempts, 5th in yards, 13th in td's, 2nd in yards per attempt
1996 denver broncos (with td) - 2nd in attempts, 1st in yards, 2nd in td's, 4th in yards per attempt
1997 denver broncos (with td) - 6th in attempts, 4th in yards, 5th in td's, 2nd in yards per attempt
1998 denver broncos (with td) - 2nd in attempts, 2nd in yards, 1st in td's, 2nd in yards per attempt
1999 denver broncos (td gets hurt) - 9th in attempts, 12th in yards, 10th in td's, 14th in yards per attempt
2000 denver broncos (td gets hurt) - 4th in attempts, 3rd in yards, 3rd in td's, 6th in yards per attempt
2001 denver broncos (td gets hurt) - 6th in attempts, 10th in yards, 30th in td's, 19th in yards per attempt
2002 denver broncos (with portis) - 11th in attempts, 5th in yards, 5th in td's, 3rd in yards per attempt
2003 denver broncos (with portis) - 2nd in attempts, 2nd in yards, 3rd in td's, 4th in yards per attempt

to me, that looks like he began the shift towards running the ball and showed the team what type of back the scheme uses best. he had the best years of anyone in the system, there was a dropoff when he got hurt, and the team couldn't regain those heights until another dominant back in a similar mold, clinton portis, came in.

sounds like he made the system what it was.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Okay then explain bums putting up similar numbers in the same system?

terrell davis:
1995 (started 14/14 games) - 237 attempts, 1,117 rushing yards (4.7 ypc, 79.8 ypg), 7 touchdowns, 49 receptions, 367 receiving yards, 1 touchdown
1996 (started 16/16 games; pro bowl; all-pro; nfl offensive player of the year) - 345 attempts, 1538 rushing yards (4.5 ypc, 96.1 ypg), 13 touchdowns, 36 receptions, 310 receiving yards, 2 touchdowns
1997 (started 15/15 games; pro bowl; all-pro; super bowl mvp) - 369 attempts, 1750 rushing yards (4.7 ypc, 116.7 ypg), 15 touchdowns, 42 receptions, 287 receiving yards
1998 (started 16/16 games; pro bowl; all-pro; nfl mvp; nfl offensive player of the year) - 392 carries, 2008 rushing yards (5.1 ypc, 125.5 ypg), 21 touchdowns, 25 receptions, 217 receiving yards, 2 touchdowns

olandis gary:
1999 (started 12/12 games) - 276 attempts, 1,159 rushing yards (4.2 ypc, 96.6 ypg), 7 touchdowns, 21 receptions, 159 receiving yards

mike anderson:
2000 (started 12 of 16 games) - 297 carries, 1,487 rushing yards (5.0 ypc, 92.9 ypg), 15 touchdowns, 23 receptions, 169 receiving yards

2001 - thrown out, as davis, anderson and gary all shared time, thus we can't deduce anything

2002 - clinton portis reign begins, who doesn't apply to this argument since he is not a bum

conclusion - davis was the perfect back for the system and was the template for everything that followed. the two seasons that "bums" played after him, they only put up numbers that rival or beat his rookie season. every other season he had was statistically superior, which debunks your argument's premise.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

What kills TD's HOF chances IMO is that Denver could plug bums like Orlandis Gary or Mike Anderson in that offense and they would put up Pro Bowl type seasons. I think even more than Emmitt Smith that TD was more a product of an outstanding OL and scheme than he was an exceptional talent.

Except none of them put up the numbers Davis did while he was there. And if you watched him, and I saw him once a year live (Still used my season tix then) he was hardly the product of his line. He was a devasting downhill runner who ran through a lot of tackles and could make people miss once he got in to the secondary.

Again, I am no Bronco fan, but Terrell Davis was a great back, no matter what system he played in or what team he played on.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

TD's playoff numbers are absolutely freakish though. How it physically possible for a guy to get nearly 370 carries and flourish against elite playoff teams? Has any RB ever had as great a playoff run as TD had in 97? Then he goes and wins the Super Bowl for the Broncos when he's practically blind. If TD were just some system RB that put up good numbers for bad teams that never accomplished anything, I could see him being left out of the conversation, but TD was the primary reason why those Broncos teams were as great as they were. He's absolutely a Hall of Famer in my mind. My hope is that he'll get in down the line like Lynn Swann did.

His SB performance vs. the Packers was one of the best big game performances I have ever seen. I was there, I didn't know about the migraines till after, but even without them his performance was off the chart. Tough run after tough run, in crucual situation after crucial situation.

He carried that 97 team to a championship.

Damn I hate the Broncos, so that hurts to say.