Best runningback of all time

[CW McGraw]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Guys like Gayle Sayers, Eric Dickerson, and OJ Simpson...yes OJ Simpson we're every bit as good of "pure runner" as Barry Sanders.

If you're only a fantastic "pure runner" for a couple of years, then you really aren't that fantastic. Brown and Sanders were elite backs in every single year of their decade long or so careers. Sayers had a tremendously short stretch of historical dominance. Dickerson fizzled out near the end and at times in the middle of his career. Simpson had five good years. If we're talking about greatness over short stretches, I see no reason why not to bring up Terrell Davis. He had as dominant a three year stretch as any RB ever.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Um?....***n.

Don't get me wrong, Payton is one of the great players ever....a player with few flaws. But he had nowhere near the quickness, elusiveness, or big play ability that Sanders had. Wasn't nearly as fast, never eluded or broke as many tackles...ever and I've watched a ton of Payton film. This is not a knock on Payton, he simply didn't have that ability.

No one is denying that Payton is a more complete back. But a RB's job is to run the football and imo, Barry did that better. My only questionable was "is he serviceable" at everything else and he was. The numbers prove that (check out his yards from scrimmage numbers).

Yeah I don't see how Barry was a better runner than Payton. Payton was a inside/out threat. Payton was a far superior run finisher was a more physical back , and Payton was still a homerun threat.

Did you really just say Payton didn't break the amount of tackles Sanders did? If you've watched that much film of Payton, I am not sure how you could make that argument. Sanders made more big plays, that argument you could make, but that alone doesn't make him the better runner.

If we're talking greatest runner of all time? Barry is not Payton's equal. He's not. Payton was better at just about every facet of the game and he shouldered more of the load for a longer period of time.

Barry's a great back, but if we're talking greatest RB of all time, I just can't see the argument for him over Payton or Smith.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Sanders had more than enough physicality and power to be a fantastic goalline runner.

Yet he never was a fantastic goalline runner.

[Rocky]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Yeah I don't see how Barry was a better runner than Payton. Payton was a inside/out threat. Payton was a far superior run finisher was a more physical back , and Payton was still a homerun threat.

Did you really just say Payton didn't break the amount of tackles Sanders did? If you've watched that much film of Payton, I am not sure how you could make that argument. Sanders made more big plays, that argument you could make, but that alone doesn't make him the better runner.

If we're talking greatest runner of all time? Barry is not Payton's equal. He's not. Payton was better at just about every facet of the game and he shouldered more of the load for a longer period of time.

Barry's a great back, but if we're talking greatest RB of all time, I just can't see the argument for him over Payton or Smith.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. By broken tackles, I'm talking about arm tackles where Barry slipped defenders and times where Barry shrugged off defenders off a move. There is no doubt that Barry broke more tackles. Payton was a better finisher and moved more piles....I agree there. That wasn't necessarily Barry's style. Payton didn't also juke defenders in the hole. Payton didn't make the cuts that you see Barry make. You say that Payton didn't have as many big plays....why is that? Every RB wants to get yards and make plays. The numbers don't lie. During the course of a game, Payton got the ball more, but averaged less yards both rushing and receiving than Sanders. The advantages that Payton had as a receiver and blocker are too negligible to overcome that.

The shouldered more load for a longer period of time argument is false. His team was terrible until the year the strike happened....then played on some of the best teams of all time after that.

[Rocky]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Was there in Dickerson's rookie year. I thought he was there a couple more years after but nope....

Sheesh the Rams probably cost Dickerson some years in the back end of his career. They used him THAT much.


BTW Plan B Free Agency should be brought back IMO. I know it's more restrictive then what we have now but it was pretty good at keeping teams together while at the same time veterans with some years left could still leave their first team if they want.

Am I missing something or did the Rams have one of the best lines in the league in Dickerson's prime? I thought that made him somewhat expendable during the end of his tenure because of the success that Greg Bell had with the same offensive line.

[SPTO]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Am I missing something or did the Rams have one of the best lines in the league in Dickerson's prime? I thought that made him somewhat expendable during the end of his tenure because of the success that Greg Bell had with the same offensive line.

The line was pretty good but it was more Dickerson's ridiculous (to the Rams) contract claims and poisoning of the locker room that lead to his ouster. The philosophy of the Rams was starting to change by the end of his tenure there anyways as they were becoming more of an aerial team with the hiring of Ernie Zampese and eventually Norv Turner.

[mKoz26]

Re: Best runningback of all time

The shouldered more load for a longer period of time argument is false. His team was terrible until the year the strike happened....then played on some of the best teams of all time after that.

A good defense doesn't make bigger holes or take the 8th man out of the box.

[PrettyT11]

Re: Best runningback of all time

If you're only a fantastic "pure runner" for a couple of years, then you really aren't that fantastic. Brown and Sanders were elite backs in every single year of their decade long or so careers. Sayers had a tremendously short stretch of historical dominance. Dickerson fizzled out near the end and at times in the middle of his career. Simpson had five good years. If we're talking about greatness over short stretches, I see no reason why not to bring up Terrell Davis. He had as dominant a three year stretch as any RB ever.

Where did Dickerson fizzle during the middle of his career?? He only went under 1,300 yards once in the first 7 years of his career. That one season under 1,300 was only cause he only played 12 games. In those 12 games he ran for 1,288 yards including running for over 1,000 yards in 9 games after his trade to Indy. His numbers didn't drop until after he was over 30 years old and had many issues including injuries and contract disputes. But he was the fastest ever to 10,000 yards (12 games faster than Barry), was the first man ever to run for over 1,000 yards in seven straight years, and was second all time in rushing yards when he retired. I would say that is past fantastic.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

The shouldered more load for a longer period of time argument is false. His team was terrible until the year the strike happened....then played on some of the best teams of all time after that.

No it's not. Payton generally had more rushing attempts and more receptions every year. Payton simply accounted for more touches over a longer period of time than Barry did.

He played on one of the best teams of all time after that, and it was because of the defense not because they were stacked with talent offensively. Unless you consider Mike Tomcszak, Steve Fuller, Doug Flutie, Jim McMahon (when healthy) along with Dennis McKinnon, Willie Gault, Dennis Gentry and Emory Moorhead the makings of an all time great offense.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

The numbers don't lie. During the course of a game, Payton got the ball more, but averaged less yards both rushing and receiving than Sanders. The advantages that Payton had as a receiver and blocker are too negligible to overcome that.

How do you figure? Or is best RB based solely on statistics? Are we talking best fantasy RB or best RB?

How are the advantages negligible? Payton was significantly more capable as a reciever and a blocker, not to mention in short yardage, etc.

Barry had more highlight runs, but other than that, he did nothing better than Payton. I don't even see how this is an argument.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Where did Dickerson fizzle during the middle of his career?? He only went under 1,300 yards once in the first 7 years of his career. That one season under 1,300 was only cause he only played 12 games. In those 12 games he ran for 1,288 yards including running for over 1,000 yards in 9 games after his trade to Indy. His numbers didn't drop until after he was over 30 years old and had many issues including injuries and contract disputes. But he was the fastest ever to 10,000 yards (12 games faster than Barry), was the first man ever to run for over 1,000 yards in seven straight years, and was second all time in rushing yards when he retired. I would say that is past fantastic.

I doubt he ever watched a game Dickerson played in. As a pure runner, I'd put Dickerson up against anyone. Size/speed combo really has never been matched with the exception of Bo Jackson.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

to me, the term "pure runner" means that we strip away every aspect of the game and look solely at his running as a means to judge him.

i wouldn't put barry at the top of that list, either, because he bypasses the first hole too many times to hit the homerun. he also runs laterally too much, backwards too much, and can only hurt you outside. if he runs up the middle, you're not concerned because he needs space to be special.

again, this isn't me trying to slight him, i have him as the #4 back of all-time, so this isn't hate, but he's certainly not the best back ever, and even on a pure runner scale, he doesn't fit the bill.

[Rocky]

Re: Best runningback of all time

How do you figure? Or is best RB based solely on statistics? Are we talking best fantasy RB or best RB?

How are the advantages negligible? Payton was significantly more capable as a reciever and a blocker, not to mention in short yardage, etc.

Barry had more highlight runs, but other than that, he did nothing better than Payton. I don't even see how this is an argument.

C'mon BK. So now you want to discount the statistics. Fine man lol. I'm not talking about highlight runs, I'm talking about him completely freezing an unblocked Sam Mills in a space the size of a phone booth and then picking up about 8 yards. He did these things on a regular basis. If Sanders wasn't a good receiver, he wouldn't have led the league in yards from scrimmage as much as he did. And he wasn't the best pass protector, but he wasn't a liability. Payton simply didn't have the speed, quickness, and possibly the vision. They were such different style of runners so it's hard to compare, but Sanders was more effective. The numbers prove that and imho, the players who I talk to say that and the tape says that.

As far as Payton playing on an all-time great team, that was in response to someone who said that Payton won big games. Looking at the rosters, the Lions finishes were about right with the talent they had and the Bears were the same way.

Lastly, I never said that Sanders was definitively a better RB than Payton. I think he is a better runner but it's like saying Jimi Hendrix was a better guitarist than Jimmy Page...they are obviously both great in their own right. To say it's not debatable or Sanders was only good for highlight runs is asinine though.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

C'mon BK. So now you want to discount the statistics. Fine man lol.

Statistics have been your only argument. Are we talking fantasy football or best RB? Besides you can manipulate stats for any argument. Which you had to do with the yards per game, in order to justify Sanders as even being in the same league as Payton as a pass receiver, when he simply wasn't. I have never heard anyone try to make that argument. Ever.

I'm not talking about highlight runs, I'm talking about him completely freezing an unblocked Sam Mills in a space the size of a phone booth and then picking up about 8 yards. He did these things on a regular basis.

Any Payton didn't? You're acting like Sanders was the only one capable of such feats. When that's not the case.

If Sanders wasn't a good receiver, he wouldn't have led the league in yards from scrimmage as much as he did.

Really? You really want to make the argument Sanders was a good pass receiver? Really?

Payton simply didn't have the speed, quickness, and possibly the vision. They were such different style of runners so it's hard to compare, but Sanders was more effective. The numbers prove that and imho, the players who I talk to say that and the tape says that.

What players? They played against Payton in the late 70's and also Barry in the 90's? How does the tape show that? So how many full games of Payton have you actually seen? Jeez, I actually saw the guy play live many times. What tapes are you basing this off of?

they are obviously both great in their own right. To say it's not debatable or Sanders was only good for highlight runs is asinine though.

I don't see how. Payton was easily the more complete player and more complete running back. I don't see how that can even be debated. Emmitt as well. If not for youtube highlight clips, Barry would not get the run he does. Barry's was a great runner, but he was not a complete back.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

to me, the term "pure runner" means that we strip away every aspect of the game and look solely at his running as a means to judge him.

i wouldn't put barry at the top of that list, either, because he bypasses the first hole too many times to hit the homerun. he also runs laterally too much, backwards too much, and can only hurt you outside. if he runs up the middle, you're not concerned because he needs space to be special.

again, this isn't me trying to slight him, i have him as the #4 back of all-time, so this isn't hate, but he's certainly not the best back ever, and even on a pure runner scale, he doesn't fit the bill.

Pure runner where do you have Dickerson? Who's your #1 pure runner?