Best runningback of all time

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Where do I start?

First off, in college...I think if he would've played in a more run-happy offense, he would have had a Heisman and been selected as one of the top 3 picks in the NFL draft. He was really that good, probably one of the most underrated college football players ever. He was just overshadowed.

When he got to the NFL, he was just an amazing combination of speed and quickness. He made cuts that only the quickest, most athletic players made....but at 215 pounds! Some of the moves and cuts he made were just unreal and he combined that with breakaway speed. If you followed him during his first three years, you would often hear comparisons to OJ. I think he was OJ 2.0...a bigger, stronger, quicker, faster version of OJ. He was supposed to centerpiece that Jags dynasty that was supposed to last from the late 90's to the mid 2000's. I thought he would be a top 10, if not top 5 RB of all-time because he would have great stats with at least 2 or 3 Super Bowl rings.

Then the injuries came. What's amazing is that even after all the injuries, he was still one of the top backs in the NFL for a number of years. But he was really never the same as he was before the injuries. Like I said, in his prime, there are only a small handful of backs before I would take before a healty Fred Taylor.

i definitely have memories of fred taylor, so i wasn't trying to marginalize him. clearly, he was a very good running back. he was a big part of the jaguars offense with burnell, mccarddell and smith, and he used to gash the ravens back in the day.

so, if each player is at their peak, who do you take over fred taylor?

[DukeC]

Re: Best runningback of all time

the eye test isn't ridiculous, it's pretty much 70% of the reason gale sayers is in the hall of fame. my point wasn't that curtis martin doesn't deserve to be in the hall, that was 55. all i said was he doesn't pass my eye test, which is to say that he never appear to be great enough to warrant mentioning him in this thread. that's all.

when pushed further, i named 20 other backs that i would rather have at their peak than him at his, but the eye test comment was about me saying he never elicited an aura of greatness. i never watched him and said "this man is one of the best to ever do it". whether or not you personally feel he is, that's another story, and if you want to point at his rushing totals, that's fine. but curtis martin does not belong in this thread in my opinion, and i don't know anyone, other than you and bkrich, who would put him in it.

I never said he belonged in this thread (Of the greatest Rb of all time). And, if it was 55, who indeed said he shouldn't be in the hall because of the "eye test" then that's where my beef lay so to speak.

All I was arguing was that he was a great runningback and that he deserved to be in the hall. Me, I voted Barry, simply because when Barry did play he made you say "That man is unstoppable".

With Martin it was more "Would you please stop getting first downs? Any time soon? No? Damn it."

It was the main reason why he never got that many touchdowns at the end of drives. He had to work too hard to get within the 20 in the first place.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

I never said he belonged in this thread (Of the greatest Rb of all time). And, if it was 55, who indeed said he shouldn't be in the hall because of the "eye test" then that's where my beef lay so to speak.

All I was arguing was that he was a great runningback and that he deserved to be in the hall. Me, I voted Barry, simply because when Barry did play he made you say "That man is unstoppable".

With Martin it was more "Would you please stop getting first downs? Any time soon? No? Damn it."

It was the main reason why he never got that many touchdowns at the end of drives. He had to work too hard to get within the 20 in the first place.

i can give him very good, but not great. at that point, it's just semantics, but i hold great off for those who truly are elite. i say he was very good for a very long time, and that's nothing to shake a stick at. it allowed him to post 10 seasons of 1,000 and finish with the 4th most rushing yards of all-time. that's a great career for a very good, consistent and durable running back.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

can you be in the discussion for being the greatest at something if there are 20 people who did it better, or comparably?

Well apparently your 20 people are what matters then. Gotta keep Curtis out of the discussion because random internet guy says 20 did it better.

[The15thunter]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Well apparently your 20 people are what matters then. Gotta keep Curtis out of the discussion because random internet guy says 20 did it better.

in a discussion between a group of random internet people, how does my opinion not count as much as yours? if you don't want to continue this discussion, that's one thing, but please leave the snarky sarcasm alone, it's not adding anything to the thread.

[bkrich83]

Re: Best runningback of all time

in a discussion between a group of random internet people, how does my opinion not count as much as yours? if you don't want to continue this discussion, that's one thing, but please leave the snarky sarcasm alone, it's not adding anything to the thread.

Wasn't one snarky thing about it. Him being in the discussion at the very least has nothing to do with my opinion. Actually I merely said he had a very underrated career. That's when you chimed in, with your absurd eye test theory.

In the end he's in the discussion because of the numbers alone.

[Rocky]

Re: Best runningback of all time

so, if each player is at their peak, who do you take over fred taylor?

I don't like to compare eras, so out of his peers (excluding Barry and Emmitt)...Faulk, LT, and maybe a motivated Ricky Williams. And it wouldn't be an easy choice to take any of those guys over him as he is more physically talented than all those guys.

[SPTO]

Re: Best runningback of all time

If the eye test was the ultimate measure of a player's worth than Jeff George, Blair Thomas, Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Brian Bosworth and a whole host of other players would be considered great and/or HOFers.

You got to look at the whole spectrum when judging a player, from their personality, to the players they're surrounded by and how they're used. I know it's easy to say "well that guy just compiled yards" and I have a few people who I put in that category IMO (Corey Dillon leaps to my mind immediately) but to me Curtis Martin was a quiet guy who just went about his business and by the end of the season he'd have 1000+ yards. It's not his fault that he wasn't a flashing RB with highlight reel plays or that he didn't call attention to himself.

Heck, if you think about it, aside from his big open field runs Emmit Smith was a pretty boring RB to watch.

[wheelman990]

Re: Best runningback of all time

so, just to make sure i understand, you're saying emmitt smith and curtis martin are equals?

I think the two were very close, and played very similar too.

Martin is underrated. Numbers speak volumes. He even did it with different teams. He proved it was no fluke over 10 years of 1k yards. I remember some pretty amazing runs by him back in the day. Not flashly, but neither was Emmitt really.

You put Emmitt on the Patriots/Jets and put Martin on the Cowboys and you might be hard pressed to chose one over the other. Emmitt's TD's were also do to being inside the redzone so often thanks to a great offense.

But based on luck of being on the Cowoys, and also how their careers went, I would place Emmitt top 5, and Martin top 15

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Man, that Curtis Martin mention got this thread going, lol.

Another name I don't see mentioned when talking about the greats -- Franco Harris. And though I'm an Eagles' fan -- no mention of Tony Dorsett?

Hmmm?

[huskerwr38]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Come again?? Where exactly did this Emmitt joined an up and coming team come from?? You do realize that Emmitt joined a team that just won one game the year before and had a first year coach. The year before they won three games and got rid of a hall of fame coach. This was the same Cowboys team that was questioning if Aikman was even the right guy to go with. There was more question marks around that Cowboys team than any other team in the league. How exactly is that considered an up and coming team??

I thought that was the exact definition of an up and coming team. They were getting all their pieces in place and kept getting better and better. And they went 7-9 the following year Emmitt came then 11-5 his second year. That is how I considered them an up and coming team.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Best runningback of all time

the eye test isn't ridiculous, it's pretty much 70% of the reason gale sayers is in the hall of fame. my point wasn't that curtis martin doesn't deserve to be in the hall, that was 55. all i said was he doesn't pass my eye test, which is to say that he never appear to be great enough to warrant mentioning him in this thread. that's all.

when pushed further, i named 20 other backs that i would rather have at their peak than him at his, but the eye test comment was about me saying he never elicited an aura of greatness. i never watched him and said "this man is one of the best to ever do it". whether or not you personally feel he is, that's another story, and if you want to point at his rushing totals, that's fine. but curtis martin does not belong in this thread in my opinion, and i don't know anyone, other than you and bkrich, who would put him in it.

Wow you just lost any credibility with that statement.

[huskerwr38]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Oh and just to add. I remember watching and thinking about Curtis Martin being one of the best backs in the NFL. He played among some of the best backs in the NFL of all time, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, Marshall Faulk, etc. and he kept pace with them. I remember thinking of him as an elite running back as well. But I didn't pay that much attention to him. Then I just looked up his stats and was pretty amazed. 10 straight 1000 yard seasons, he's in the top 10 in almost every major rushing category. I would definately say he belongs in the HOF.

[55]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Wow you just lost any credibility with that statement.

How so? That statement is absolute truth. Sayers only played 4 full seasons and is in the HoF. Why? Because the eye test shows that he was THAT damn good. If it were all about numbers, he wouldn't be in.

[SPTO]

Re: Best runningback of all time

Man, that Curtis Martin mention got this thread going, lol.

Another name I don't see mentioned when talking about the greats -- Franco Harris. And though I'm an Eagles' fan -- no mention of Tony Dorsett?

Hmmm?

Franco Harris was a damn good RB though he was often criticized back in the day (I know as i've plenty of video) of being overly protective of himself rather than reaching for that extra yard. He would regularly step out of bounds rather than hurl himself on the turf for more yardage.

Tony Dorsett was a HELLUVA RB. He was steady as they come though his decline was rather protracted and the sight of him in a Broncos uniform was just plain weird to see.

How so? That statement is absolute truth. Sayers only played 4 full seasons and is in the HoF. Why? Because the eye test shows that he was THAT damn good. If it were all about numbers, he wouldn't be in.

The eye test did work in Sayers favor in many ways but he was also a transcendent player in his time. He was so far beyond everyone else in terms of his skill set and what he brought onto the field that he went beyond just the eye test that we're talking about. He was also recognized for coming back and having one great season after his first devastating knee injury. Sayers transformed the game with his speed and ability to make guys miss in an era where most RBs were plodding behemoths who were expected to run over defenders.

So his case is a little more tricky than you'd think at first blush. You could probably make a case for the eye test theory if Terrell Davis is in the HOF.