NFL Off Topic

[thaima1shu]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There isn't much concrete info out there, but the info from when the Seahawks were looking into Kaepernick is about all we have to go on. It seems that there were initial reports saying that they were apart on money, but this article from PFT seems to directly contradict that:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/05/seahawks-kaepernick-arent-apart-on-money/

In the aftermath of the decision of the Seahawks to not sign quarterback Colin Kaepernick, some have suggested that the inability to get the two sides together results from the fact that the two sides are apart on money.

Per a source with direct knowledge of the situation, that’s not the case.

So I guess it depends on whose "sources" you believe. If you trust Florio/PFT, then you could potentially deduce that Kaepernick isn't looking for too much more than the vet minimum, as that's what Austin Davis ended up signing for. Or at the very least, Kaepernick's salary demands weren't the deciding factor in the Seahawks choosing not to sign him.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There are 32 GMs/owners, right? There isn't a blanket reason for all of them. Some think he sucks. Some don't want the backlash. Some a combo. And you're incredibly naive if you don't think there are a good number that hate him for what he did and wouldn't even dream of signing him.

[NYJets]

Re: NFL Off Topic

But has he been offered a contract but not agreed to the terms? I mean what if he's going in there wanting more money than teams are willing to pay?

In my opinion this is what everything hinges on. His jerseys are leading sales so there's obvious support for him in addition to the critics.

*Per B/R headline that referenced his jersey sales*

I disagree you can say with certainty that if he wasn't polarizing that he'd have a job.

Like Pack said we probably would have heard about that by now. If he has been turning down deals than I agree with you, but that doesn't seem likely to me. The reports came out that the Seahawks wasn't about money, i believe he retweeted them. I also don't don't see why he'd be meeting with Seattle if he wasn't willing to take the backup role. I could see him meeting with a team where the starting spot was up for grabs, and asking for too much money. But if that had happened we probably would have heard about it

[LowerWolf]

Re: NFL Off Topic

John Lynch had said Kap was close to a deal with a mystery team in March. But it obviously fell through. Until the Seattle rumors a few weeks ago, that was all I had heard.

Lynch's quote:
“I don’t know what happened to that market (for Kaepernick) because when we added our second guy, at that time, I can just tell you, you learn things,” Lynch said. “And he was in everyone’s mind in this league very close to signing a deal with a team at a really good number. And it fell through, apparently.”

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Do we know what he's looking for? I know that one media report has been false.

I'm down with saying it's all about the social stance if there's something saying he was willing to join a team at a reasonable backup rate.

I have my bias I think money is driving it moreso than anything else.


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This article pretty much speaks on everything as far as the money and leaks go:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/16/kawakami-colin-kaepernick-seattles-interest-and-a-guess-at-who-circulated-that-false-10m-asking-price/amp/

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

This article pretty much speaks on everything as far as the money and leaks go:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mercu...ing-price/amp/

Could be all true. Not much about the protesting.

That's pretty much where I personally want to draw the line. Because, in general, there are way too many legitimate and provable offenses that happen on a daily basis to go chasing down rabbit holes for ones before they appear. It kind of dilutes the message and allows those trying to deflect or turn a blind eye some legitimacy to their stance.

As of now, Kaep just doesn't have a job. Could be bc he sucks. Could be bc he thinks he's worth more than he is. Could be bc he's not good enough for the inevitable distraction. I personally will need some kind of concrete evidence before I say it's because the entire league is upset about his protesting. As of now, his protesting has just put a brighter spotlight on his situation that may not be any different than many other QBs before him... again starting with RG3.

All the respect in the world for him doing something that arguably put his career on the line. That's enough to hope he gets a job, but not to say he deserves one.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Still not buying the RG3 comparison but that's a minor thing in the issue I have with your earlier post. I'll break that down later since I'm on Tapatalk and phone is about to die, lol.


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[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Still not buying the RG3 comparison but that's a minor thing in the issue I have with your earlier post. I'll break that down later since I'm on Tapatalk and phone is about to die, lol.


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I definitely rather here your major issues with it, but I am curious why you say you aren't buying the RG3 comparison.

Despite an unorthodoxed style, RG3 came in the NFL on top of the world. He flashed potential that make people still believe he's better than his mental game and gimpy knees have proven to be true. It'd make sense that many would consider him better than most back ups, but bc of intangibles, it also makes sense why many GMs wouldn't want him as their back up.

The injury thing is a BIG ingredient since Kaep doesn't have that, and RG3 has had enough to seriously doubt he can ever complete a full season. So if that's what you mean, I could get that. But if it's something else, I'd be curious to hear what.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I definitely rather here your major issues with it, but I am curious why you say you aren't buying the RG3 comparison.

Despite an unorthodoxed style, RG3 came in the NFL on top of the world. He flashed potential that make people still believe he's better than his mental game and gimpy knees have proven to be true. It'd make sense that many would consider him better than most back ups, but bc of intangibles, it also makes sense why many GMs wouldn't want him as their back up.

The injury thing is a BIG ingredient since Kaep doesn't have that, and RG3 has had enough to seriously doubt he can ever complete a full season. So if that's what you mean, I could get that. But if it's something else, I'd be curious to hear what.

Spoiler

when Denver didn't want him, when Cleveland didn't want him, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the reasons they didn't trade for him had more to do with them not agreeing on compensation and less to do with him as a QB? Remember, this was going on before his protest so let's not make it seem like they didn't want him because he stunk.

EDIT: Didn't have anything to do with compensation but more with him not wanting to take a paycut and what the teams were willing to pay him:

Per Bleacher Report:

Bleacher Report's Jason Cole reported Monday talks between the Broncos and the 49ers are at a stalemate because Kaepernick will not budge on his guaranteed 2016 salary. The 49ers are also refusing to pay any part of his salary to make the move. Ian Rapoport of NFL Network provided confirmation of the report.

Mike Klis of 9News reported that trade talks between the two teams are "still on" but noted that they're just "stalemated on who pays what" of Kaepernick's salary.

Denver has emerged as Kaepernick's most likely destination, but the two sides have hit numerous speed bumps along the way. ESPN.com's Adam Schefter reported the Broncos are only willing to pay $7 million for Kaepernick's services in 2016, with either the 49ers paying the remaining $4.9 million or Kaepernick taking a pay cut of that amount.

Apparently, the Browns weren't as serious as the Broncos were prior to drafting Lynch based on what I've read on the issue via Google.

But it's not a new thing that a veteran QB who thinks he's better than most starters has trouble finding back up jobs.

So are you assuming that's what he's thinking, despite the fact there's been nothing to suggest that? If that's the case, he would've been better off not meeting with Seattle since he knew he wouldn't be taking Wilson's job.

As for Vick, plain and simple, he was a better QB when he left the league than Kaep has ever been. He was borderline the face of the NFL.

I'm talking about Vick AFTER he got out of Prison. So yeah, he was the face of the NFL....but for the wrong reason.

My point in mentioning him is that we heard the same **** about him after he was released(about his flawed mechanics and how he wasn't anything special as a passer, his accuracy was trash, he's wasted his prime years in the pen, etc)that we're hearing about Kaepernick now.

Because, in general, there are way too many legitimate and provable offenses that happen on a daily basis to go chasing down rabbit holes for ones before they appear. It kind of dilutes the message and allows those trying to deflect or turn a blind eye some legitimacy to their stance.

Oh that bridge was already crossed when people decided to follow the "he wants too much money and he wants to be a starter" narrative even though there was nothing to support that claim.

I personally will need some kind of concrete evidence before I say it's because the entire league is upset about his protesting.

Ahh, you want an actual Owner to come out publicly and admit that him not standing is the reason why they won't give the OK for their teams to sign him. You'll be waiting a long time, sir.

The injury thing is a BIG ingredient since Kaep doesn't have that, and RG3 has had enough to seriously doubt he can ever complete a full season.

That's exactly why I don't buy the comparison.

Plus, unlike RG3, based on the numbers that was posted in here earlier, he at least has something to go off of from what he did last year to suggest that he could be a backup QB and nothing more.

[NDAlum]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There are 32 GMs/owners, right? There isn't a blanket reason for all of them. Some think he sucks. Some don't want the backlash. Some a combo. And you're incredibly naive if you don't think there are a good number that hate him for what he did and wouldn't even dream of signing him.

Call me naive.

I think the owners are smarter than that and don't hold personal grudges with his stance. I would think these extremely wealthy people are thinking about their franchise brand which potentially could face boycotts from fans who don't agree with Kap and are upset with him.

Is there an owner or two out there who are possibly closet racists and loathe Kap for what he did...I could see that. I don't know enough about them to single out a few guys as that type. Maybe to you a few is a "good number". Then I agree. But your term is vague and if you're talking 8+ then yea I'm gonna take the other side on that one.

Maybe these owners are seeing a potential financial loss from signing Kap or just a headache dealing with their "ignorant" fans who hate Kap. If you owned a business would that not go into your decision making?

If he was that valuable of a football player I would think coaches would go to bat for him with an owner/GM and try to get them to bring him on board.

I think I'm going around in circles and have made my point...I think it's everything coming together.

[NDAlum]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Spoiler

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the reasons they didn't trade for him had more to do with them not agreeing on compensation and less to do with him as a QB? Remember, this was going on before his protest so let's not make it seem like they didn't want him because he stunk.

EDIT: Didn't have anything to do with compensation but more with him not wanting to take a paycut and what the teams were willing to pay him:

Per Bleacher Report:

Apparently, the Browns weren't as serious as the Broncos were prior to drafting Lynch based on what I've read on the issue via Google.


So are you assuming that's what he's thinking, despite the fact there's been nothing to suggest that? If that's the case, he would've been better off not meeting with Seattle since he knew he wouldn't be taking Wilson's job.


I'm talking about Vick AFTER he got out of Prison. So yeah, he was the face of the NFL....but for the wrong reason.

My point in mentioning him is that we heard the same **** about him after he was released(about his flawed mechanics and how he wasn't anything special as a passer, his accuracy was trash, he's wasted his prime years in the pen, etc)that we're hearing about Kaepernick now.


Oh that bridge was already crossed when people decided to follow the "he wants too much money and he wants to be a starter" narrative even though there was nothing to support that claim.


Ahh, you want an actual Owner to come out publicly and admit that him not standing is the reason why they won't give the OK for their teams to sign him. You'll be waiting a long time, sir.


That's exactly why I don't buy the comparison.

Plus, unlike RG3, based on the numbers that was posted in here earlier, he at least has something to go off of from what he did last year to suggest that he could be a backup QB and nothing more.

You can't post how a team didn't view Kap as "worth" a certain amount of money and then flame people for viewing a potential hangup with his signing as wanting too much money.

Unless people are saying with certainty that the money is the sole reason as Kap not getting signed. That's similar to how I feel with people saying his political stance is the sole reason he isn't getting signed.

[ProfessaPackMan]

NFL Off Topic

You do know that was a year ago, right? Before he started his protest on the field in the first place. When his ex employer didn't want to pay him his full salary(that they gave him like some idiots)and the other team didn't want to pay him his full salary and he didn't want to take a pay cut(who are we to fault him for that at the time?)when they could've just cut him altogether.

Back when his "worth" was higher than it currently is since you had teams actually willing to give up compensation to get him whereas now(post-Take a Knee)teams wouldn't even consider bringing him in, outside of Seattle.

And nobody is saying his protest is THE reason(I feel like you're getting too hung up on that part). People are saying it's A factor and if you honestly don't believe it is, then yeah I'll say that you are extremely naive in this case. I'm certainly going to call you that on your previous post.

I really wish I could comment more on that post but...TOS unfortunately.

[steelerfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The whole distraction in sports is bull**** to me. What adult doesn't go to work with some sort of internal baggage? You really telling me a locker room/staff full of adults really get off their focus for the rest of the day when five-ten minutes are spent being asked questions that don't have anything to do with what they do?

Is football the only sport we really hear the distraction buzzword in? More than others?

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I'm not talking about any distraction to players and staff.

I'm talking about angering a portion of the fan base and having alot of polarizing talk about social issues surround your brand all because of a guy you hope never plays. It doesn't seem worth it.

[NDAlum]

Re: NFL Off Topic

You do know that was a year ago, right? Before he started his protest on the field in the first place. When his ex employer didn't want to pay him his full salary(that they gave him like some idiots)and the other team didn't want to pay him his full salary and he didn't want to take a pay cut(who are we to fault him for that at the time?)when they could've just cut him altogether.

Back when his "worth" was higher than it currently is since you had teams actually willing to give up compensation to get him whereas now(post-Take a Knee)teams wouldn't even consider bringing him in, outside of Seattle.

And nobody is saying his protest is THE reason(I feel like you're getting too hung up on that part). People are saying it's A factor and if you honestly don't believe it is, then yeah I'll say that you are extremely naive in this case. I'm certainly going to call you that on your previous post.

I really wish I could comment more on that post but...TOS unfortunately.

lol I've said repeatedly I think it's part of the equation

C'mon man

[ProfessaPackMan]

NFL Off Topic

I thought it was obvious that I was responding to the last part in your post. About how you feel people saying his political stance is the sole reason he isn't getting signed.