NFL Off Topic

[Blzer]

Re: NFL Off Topic

^^ An encroachment at the 12 pits you at the 7 because it's a five yard penalty. Not a 10 yard penalty.

It's actually pretty simple, if the resulting penalty is more than what is "to go" to the goal line is half the distance.

If it's outside of that (your encroachment example) it's not.

Whoops, wrong penalty. I was thinking of another ten yard penalty.

Personally, I think it should bring them into their respective end zones. Even if it doesn't, it should definitely advance them the proper yardage if they can still fit it within the playing field.

[ProfessaPackMan]

NFL Off Topic

I watched Carolina own the ball for 2/3 of a game and only score 3 points while Chicago had a TOTAL of 153 yards of total offense with their QB throwing it only 7 times.

It felt like a HS football game.

Shoot, depending on where you live at, I’ve seen some HS Football games look better(read: more fun to watch)than some NFL games.

As for WR/CB contact, I actually wish they let them play and not dial back the contact there. DBs get penalized enough as it is, with these WRs flailing their arms and looking for a flag instead of trying to make a play on the ball themselves.

Fundamentals have pretty much gone down the drain, from the Pop Warner level up thru HS/College and into the Pros. It’s been going on for years but has been more noticeable just recently in the NFL.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I just feel there’s not as much talent in the league now. Or maybe there is but the coaching sucks. Every team in the league is just really mediocre or straight garbage though.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I kinda feel the opposite, like there's too much talent and offenses can't take advantage of mismatches as much anymore, everyone is big, strong, fast, and aware of game situations like never before

[Blzer]

Re: NFL Off Topic

As for WR/CB contact, I actually wish they let them play and not dial back the contact there. DBs get penalized enough as it is, with these WRs flailing their arms and looking for a flag instead of trying to make a play on the ball themselves.

Oh, I hate flopping and whining, but I'd be damned if I believe contact should be made by two players for any reasons unless they are playing the ball only. Even a small tickle should result in a PI.

I'm not saying there should be more flags, I'm saying there should be less contact. It shouldn't be played that way. We didn't do it back in the day playing two-touch or flag, we just went clean. The more contact you allow, the more there will be practiced in general, and "getting away with it."

There was an obvious hold on Cooks last night that shouldn't have any gray area. He was being hugged. There is no reason holds should ever happen in this sport, unless you are on the O-line trying to prevent your QB from being injured in an obvious sack scenario.

[SPTO]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I can't even put my finger quite on why it's not as entertaining. My only thought is that the game just seems so much more risk averse than it use to be. Every one just plays so damn scared of making a mistake that it just becomes a game of both teams playing not to lose. I just can't sit for 12 hours and watch these teams try to march up and down the field with 6 yard slant patterns anymore. And the few times a big play does happen, you can't be "in the moment" with your reaction because you immediately start looking for a flag.


New QB comes along that moves the pocket, scrambles, actually throws downfield and his coach spends the next off-season immediately coaching all the "fun" out of his game. Rinse and repeat. Can't wait to see how Bill O'Brien ruins Deshaun Watson!

I think you're onto something here. I know one of the biggest complaints I have is on a 3rd and long situation almost every single time you get some pass that is short of the sticks and they barely miss out on the first down. That's actually been a bit of a complaint for 20 years now so it's nothing new but at least in the past different teams had different schemes and you'd see an aggressive team. I think that's part of the issue. Sure, there are some differences here and there but mostly everyone plays the same general scheme and I think it's reasonable to say that at least 25% of the offensive playbook for nearly every team is the same across the board. There are a couple teams that are markedly different (New England, Buffalo, Chicago) but the rest generally have the same overall fundamental scheme.

I remember in the '90s when teams had distinct personalities. The Raiders would go downfield, the Niners used a short passing game to set up an efficient run game, The Pats were a Don Coryell clone, The Vikes were a big play offense and the Cowboys just seemingly did everything perfect. Nowadays everyone uses RPOs, more or less the same blocking schemes and no one really goes downfield of their own volition. You only really see that when a team is trailing by a significant amount and even then they sometimes don't do that.

It's just frustrating to watch and can be very boring. Lastly, the amount of hemming and hawing over "is that a catch?" "is that REALLY a TD?" etc etc is just maddening.

[kehlis]

Re: NFL Off Topic

And the few times a big play does happen, you can't be "in the moment" with your reaction because you immediately start looking for a flag.

This hits the nail on the head for me.

We watch to be excited when something good happens but in at the point now where if I want to jump up and cheer I always have to wait to see if there is yellow.

By the time I come to the realization that there is no yellow on those rare occasions, I've lost the desire to cheer.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Oh, I hate flopping and whining, but I'd be damned if I believe contact should be made by two players for any reasons unless they are playing the ball only. Even a small tickle should result in a PI.



I'm not saying there should be more flags, I'm saying there should be less contact. It shouldn't be played that way. We didn't do it back in the day playing two-touch or flag, we just went clean. The more contact you allow, the more there will be practiced in general, and "getting away with it”.

You might as well just make it mandatory that CBs(which is mainly who I’m speaking of since they have it more harder than a Safety would)play at least 5 yards off the WR at all times then, especially if you want less contact.

That’s what I don’t want. I understand “Offense Sells” and good defense drives the casuals away but I actually like seeing WRs work to get open. WRs are coming into the league 6’2-6’3(used to be rare back in the day)weighing 190-200lbs while running 4.3-4.4 40s. They don’t need anymore advantages, lol.

[Blzer]

Re: NFL Off Topic

You might as well just make it mandatory that CBs(which is mainly who I’m speaking of since they have it more harder than a Safety would)play at least 5 yards off the WR at all times then, especially if you want less contact.

That’s what I don’t want. I understand “Offense Sells” and good defense drives the casuals away but I actually like seeing WRs work to get open. WRs are coming into the league 6’2-6’3(used to be rare back in the day)weighing 190-200lbs while running 4.3-4.4 40s. They don’t need anymore advantages, lol.

I guess I just don't remember it always being this way, and I'm trying to get back to a "the way things used to be" kind of approach. If it's always been like this then whatevs I guess. It's not just about working to get open though, it's about giving them an opportunity to catch the ball.

Tell me why these are not penalties, and I will concede:

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm not arguing or talking about obvious calls like that and I don't think you'll find anyone who does support those.

I'm speaking about when the Defender's back is NOT towards the ball and battling it out with the WR(especially in jump ball situations)and because he doesn't catch it, he starts crying for a flag.

You're saying you want "less contact" when I'm assuming that you don't like press coverage from CBs, hence me saying make it mandatory rule to have CBs line up 5 yards off a WR at a minimum. In other words, get rid of Press Coverage and the ability for a CB to jam a WR at the line. Is that what you want? If so, then that's where I have an issue.

Now I don't have .gifs to show, but if you watch games, then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I guess I just don't remember it always being this way, and I'm trying to get back to a "the way things used to be" kind of approach. If it's always been like this then whatevs I guess. It's not just about working to get open though, it's about giving them an opportunity to catch the ball.

Tell me why these are not penalties, and I will concede:

For the first clip, the ball hit the defender in the back. Contact between players wasn't the reason it was incomplete, the ball hitting the defender in the back was.

In the second clip it was double coverage. Yes the Panther defender basically hugged Gronk without interlocking his hands, but Gronk should have worked for the ball instead of doing absolutely nothing. Did the defender restrict movement? Probably but its hard to tell when the offensive player doesn't try to do anything.

Wanting both of those plays to be penalties seems to me like wanting to bail out horrible QB decisions.

Now I absolutely agree that whatever direction they go, the refs need to be more consistent. Same actions are sometimes flagged other times not.

[slickdtc]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think you're onto something here. I know one of the biggest complaints I have is on a 3rd and long situation almost every single time you get some pass that is short of the sticks and they barely miss out on the first down. That's actually been a bit of a complaint for 20 years now so it's nothing new but at least in the past different teams had different schemes and you'd see an aggressive team. I think that's part of the issue. Sure, there are some differences here and there but mostly everyone plays the same general scheme and I think it's reasonable to say that at least 25% of the offensive playbook for nearly every team is the same across the board. There are a couple teams that are markedly different (New England, Buffalo, Chicago) but the rest generally have the same overall fundamental scheme.



I remember in the '90s when teams had distinct personalities. The Raiders would go downfield, the Niners used a short passing game to set up an efficient run game, The Pats were a Don Coryell clone, The Vikes were a big play offense and the Cowboys just seemingly did everything perfect. Nowadays everyone uses RPOs, more or less the same blocking schemes and no one really goes downfield of their own volition. You only really see that when a team is trailing by a significant amount and even then they sometimes don't do that.



It's just frustrating to watch and can be very boring. Lastly, the amount of hemming and hawing over "is that a catch?" "is that REALLY a TD?" etc etc is just maddening.

Lot of good posts about why the game is less entertaining to watch even for us hardcore fans here. Think it’s a confluence of almost every factor listed, but what SPTO said here I think is what gives the appearance every game is the same: because we’re watching each team run the same offense. I’d venture to say there’s more then just 25% of the playbooks these offenses share. Part of that just makes sense, there’s only so many plays to draw up, but we’ve reached critical mass where we know what works the best in each situation.

Some of these coaches are maddeningly conservative too. There’s a time and place for aggressiveness or being conservative, they hardly choose the former. There’s coaches like John Fox and Bill O’Brien who have potentially exciting QB’s but act like robots when 4th down rolls around. Must. Kick. 25 yard. Field goal. Take. The. Points. ERROR ERROR

The next biggest factors I think are bad coaching from the bottom up and the lack of contact practice. It took time, but we’ve reached the point where that lack of practice time has caught up to the whole league. How can we teach players to tackle when they aren’t allowed to tackle unless it’s Sunday?

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think the league has become so risk averse that there is no life in it anymore.

Coaches started to feel like there is too much at stake for them to take risks by experimenting.

[Blzer]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I'm speaking about when the Defender's back is NOT towards the ball and battling it out with the WR(especially in jump ball situations)and because he doesn't catch it, he starts crying for a flag.

I have no problem with that.

You're saying you want "less contact" when I'm assuming that you don't like press coverage from CBs, hence me saying make it mandatory rule to have CBs line up 5 yards off a WR at a minimum. In other words, get rid of Press Coverage and the ability for a CB to jam a WR at the line. Is that what you want? If so, then that's where I have an issue.

Press coverage within the first five yards is fine as well. Defenders should be entitled to their own position wherever they go, receivers don't have the only right of way. It's after those five yards where you're getting some serious, unnecessary, and excessive contact that is just "okay" by all eyes, commentators and fans alike.

I don't want to see more flags, I just want to see less bull out there. This isn't the only sport; in fact, basketball has it much worse than football does. These ticky-tack ways of abusing the foul system, especially on offense, is ruining the game (really, flops are... but they all fall in the same area to me).

I think the league has become so risk averse that there is no life in it anymore.

Coaches started to feel like there is too much at stake for them to take risks by experimenting.

Unfortunately, I think that is the case. Everybody wants somebody's head for faulting at something. The 16-game season makes everything feel so short-sighted, that Alex Smith is the best QB ever then the worst, or the Chargers are terrible then awesome. Baseball teams can go on 12-game losing streaks and still just be on a "cold streak," but the 162-game season allows for that. Instead, we just get firings left and right in this sport and there isn't much that can be done.

That's why I kind of commend Quinn for going for it on 4th & reasonably long. He really had nothing to lose, because punts would lose him the ball game just as much as turnovers would.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I almost **** myself when the Falcons went for it on 4th and 7 last night. It's like "ugh, here we go again, the old 'try and draw them off' play"... and then OMG they snapped it!

[Speedy]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I think the league has become so risk averse that there is no life in it anymore.

Coaches started to feel like there is too much at stake for them to take risks by experimenting.

On an related tangent, Kuechly was out this week due to a concussion. The play last week where it occurred didn't seem too harsh.

I'm legitimately worried about his life after football, especially if it occurs again (which it logically would playing MLB) and given what we know about repeated concussions.

Does anybody else feel like this with players that get repeated head injuries now?