NFL Off Topic

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He will get huge money as the cap and contracts naturally inflate... That's a pretty huge number though and if his camp has said no to that... Wow.

But what's the guarantee because he wants as much guaranteed money as possible. And I agree with wwharton. He shouldn't be paid the most money in NFL History at QB. Because he hasn't shown he carry a team. You look at the top paid QBs in NFL history they all have carried a team on their back at some point. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Flacco all have carried their teams on their back at some point. And I think Luck has shown he is worth that type of money because he has carried that Colts team for the last 3 years. Look at the 2012 team and 2013 team, they were pretty much the same team but with a change at QB. And he made a difference of 7 or 8 wins.

[areobee401]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Since the other list led to discussion (football we miss you), let's try another.

Grantland NFL Top 100
"As a reminder, these rankings are designed to vaguely emulate a fantasy draft of all veterans for the 2015 season. Contracts do not matter. Players are evaluated by a combination of past performance, expected aging/injury curves, and relative positional value from team spending. In other words, left tackles are worth more than middle linebackers."

1 Aaron Rodgers
2 Andrew Luck
3 J.J. Watt
4 Tom Brady
5 Peyton Manning
6 Tony Romo
7 Antonio Brow
8 Philip Rivers
9 Russell Wilson
10 Earl Thomas
11 Richard Sherman
12 Darrelle Revis
13 Tyron Smith
14 Rob Gronkowski
15 Von Miller
16 Joe Thomas
17 Justin Houston
18 Dez Bryant
19 Robert Quinn
20 A.J. Green
21 Calvin Johnson
22 Cam Newton
23 Julio Jones
24 Ben Roethlisberger
25 Jason Peters
26 Drew Brees
27 Ndamukong Suh
28 Gerald McCoy
29 Calais Campbell
30 Trent Williams
31 Lavonte David
32 Josh Sitton
33 Demaryius Thomas
34 Jordy Nelson
35 Luke Kuechly
36 Odell Beckham
37 Matt Ryan
38 Muhammad Wilkerson
39 Marcell Dareus
40 Andrew Whitworth
41 Marshal Yanda
42 Marshawn Lynch
43 Michael Bennett
44 Eli Manning
45 Connor Barwin
46 Devin McCourty
47 Patrick Peterson
48 Harrison Smith
49 Joe Flacco, QB
50 Bobby Wagner
51 Desmond Trufant
52 Duane Brown
53 Joe Staley, T
54 Ryan Kerrigan
55 Kam Chancellor
56 Eric Weddle, S
57 Terrell Suggs
58 Adrian Peterson
59 T.Y. Hilton
60 Khalil Mack
61Aqib Talib
62Chris Harris
63Jimmy Graham
64DeAndre Levy
65Clay Matthews
66Le'Veon Bell
67Brent Grimes
68Matthew Stafford
69Thomas Davis
70Maurkice Pouncey
71Sheldon Richardson
72Jurrell Casey
73Jamaal Charles
74Kyle Williams
75Haloti Ngata
76Colin Kaepernick
77Alex Smith
78Jason McCourty
79Jason Witten
80Vontae Davis
81Louis Vasquez
82Glover Quin
83Elvis Dumervil
84Randall Cobb
85Mario Williams
86Cameron Wake
87DeMarcus Ware
88Joe Haden
89Fletcher Cox
90LeSean McCoy
91Jimmy Smith
92Julius Thomas
93Antoine Bethea
94Brandon Flowers
95Tashaun Gipson
96Alex Mack
97Delanie Walker
98Jeremy Maclin
99C.J. Mosley
100 DeMarco Murray

[kingkilla56]

Re: NFL Off Topic

^Cam Newton is way too high on this list.


About the Russell deal, we had this same exact conversation when Flacco was getting paid after winning rings for his franchise. We all said he didnt deserve all that cash. Then ravens fans explained in detail why Flacco deserved that cash simply because the market dictated it. Well here we are again and if Russell can demand 20+ a year, then hes earned it.

I just hope Seattle doesnt pay him because it would buck the trend. Teams are deathly afraid and completely willing to sacrifice a well balanced team all to one positon, then wonder why they fall apart in the playoffs if they make it there. If any team is set to buck that trend, its the Seattle Seahawks. I just doubt they have the bravery to try it.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Revis too low on that list.
Peyton is about 20 spots too high.
Newton is too high.
Revis too low (meaning better than cover one side of the field Richard Sherman).
Big Ben too low.

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Sounds like $21m/year will be the deal, the sticking point is he wants the most signing/guaranteed money in NFL history, reportedly.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Letting Wilson walk would be an insane show of arrogance.

Someone should remind Schneider that he once traded a 2nd round pick for Charlie Wilson. Or that he once signed Matt Flynn for above average money. He stumbled on Wilson by virtue of luck (if he knew he was going to be this good, he would have drafted him in the 1st round).

If you hit the lottery, you don't go buy another ticket.

[Bellsprout]

Re: NFL Off Topic

They'd be celebrating their third Super Bowl title if they had stuck with Flynn, man.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Sounds like $21m/year will be the deal, the sticking point is he wants the most signing/guaranteed money in NFL history, reportedly.

That's exactly what I thought. I figured he would take the 21 but wanted a lot of guaranteed money.

[areobee401]

Re: NFL Off Topic

They'd be celebrating their third Super Bowl title if they had stuck with Flynn, man.

Now the Patriots have 3 SB caliber QB's in Brady, Jimmy G, and Flynn.

[jWILL253]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Two SB appearances, one SB victory. 3 postseason appearances. Winningest QB in first 3 seasons. 10 4th QTR comeback victories, 15 game winning drives.

"Hasn't earned it."

Cool.

If the Hawks offered him $30 million per, I would be okay with that. Make the man whole. I actually remember what the Pete Carroll era Hawks look like without a QB worth his salt. Tbh, the inability for some (keyword: some) people, even some Hawks fans, to give him any sort of credit for the amount of success this team has had for the last 3 years is astounding. (Not necessarily only referring to arguments in this thread, but other places as well).

Also, does anyone have a source that suggests teams with high-paid QBs immediately fall out of playoff contention? Because if I remember correctly, most of the teams in the post-season year in & year out have high-paid QBs. Patriots, Packers, Panthers, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, etc...

[coogrfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There's a world of difference between "not giving (Wilson) any credit" and arguing he should be the highest paid QB in the game.

For combined seasons, from 2013 to 2014, played QB, requiring Games Started >= 30, sorted by descending Pass Attempts.

http://pfref.com/tiny/L8ls4

Wilson is dead last amongst qualifying qb's in passes attempted over the last two seasons. Face it, Hawks fans: dude is a game manager. He's a really, really good game manager, and is deserving of a hefty raise, but not $21 mil a year.

[thaima1shu]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Which is the entire reason of this conversation, but I don't think any Hawks fans have commented on that. He seems to seriously be trying to be the highest QB in the NFL. If he doesn't back down from that I would be behind seeing the Hawks without him. He hasn't earned that, and what that would mean for the team as the make up would have to change, requiring him to do more than he's done to this point.

About the Russell deal, we had this same exact conversation when Flacco was getting paid after winning rings for his franchise. We all said he didnt deserve all that cash. Then ravens fans explained in detail why Flacco deserved that cash simply because the market dictated it. Well here we are again and if Russell can demand 20+ a year, then hes earned it.

I just hope Seattle doesnt pay him because it would buck the trend. Teams are deathly afraid and completely willing to sacrifice a well balanced team all to one positon, then wonder why they fall apart in the playoffs if they make it there. If any team is set to buck that trend, its the Seattle Seahawks. I just doubt they have the bravery to try it.

Letting Wilson walk would be an insane show of arrogance.

Someone should remind Schneider that he once traded a 2nd round pick for Charlie Wilson. Or that he once signed Matt Flynn to above average money. He stumbled on Wilson by virtue of luck (if he knew he was going to be this good, he would have drafted him in the 1st round).

If you hit the lottery, you don't go buy another ticket.

I mean all of these are great points with very valid thoughts behind them. But that's the problem, how does anyone know which of these is really right? A strong case can be made for either side.

Russell isn't the best QB in the league. But how often is the best QB in the league actually the highest paid player? Seems that the new 'highest paid' player is always the next franchise QB that's up for a new deal. Combine that with the rising cap and the money will always skyrocket. Luck's gonna get monstrous money when he signs, but that deal is just gonna get topped by whoever the next QB is a year or two later.

At the same time, Wilson is the best QB that the Seahawks actually have available to them. If they let him walk, they haven't shown that they're the best at judging QB talent. So who are they going to replace him with? As much as people may try to minimize Wilson's contributions to the team, I will again say that I fully believe this team doesn't sniff a Super Bowl without him. The Seahawks are young and talented, but it won't last forever. Can they really afford to spend time trying to draft or sign the right QB and risk wasting this prime window of Super Bowl contention?

[coogrfan]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So the only options available to Hawks are : (2) give Wilson whatever amount he asks for; or (2) let him walk? I don't believe Wilson has that much leverage. Or am I wrong in thinking there isn't another team in the league that would make Wilson the highest paid qb in the game?

[jWILL253]

Re: NFL Off Topic

There's a world of difference between "not giving (Wilson) any credit" and arguing he should be the highest paid QB in the game.

For combined seasons, from 2013 to 2014, played QB, requiring Games Started >= 30, sorted by descending Pass Attempts.

http://pfref.com/tiny/L8ls4

Wilson is dead last amongst qualifying qb's in passes attempted over the last two seasons. Face it, Hawks fans: dude is a game manager. He's a really, really good game manager, and is deserving of a hefty raise, but not $21 mil a year.

Passing attempts? That's your argument? Not passes competed, completion percentage, TD total, or even TD:INT, but... Passing attempts?

Y'all can keep your Stafford-like garbage time 50 attempts per game and all the L's he has to show for it. Give me efficiency that leads to less turnovers and a higher chance of winning.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

So the only options available to Hawks are : (2) give Wilson whatever amount he asks for; or (2) let him walk? I don't believe Wilson has that much leverage. Or am I wrong in thinking there isn't another team in the league that would make Wilson the highest paid qb in the game?

I can see a couple teams giving the most money in the game in a heartbeat. Cleveland and Houston being the first two teams to do it. And maybe another team that could lose their QB this upcoming offseason like the Chargers or Broncos. There will be teams lining up at the door in order to do whatever it takes to sign Wilson and if he hits the open market he getting the most money in NFL history no matter where he signs.