NFL Off Topic

[Beantown]

Re: NFL Off Topic

All these networks that carried that Belichick press conference must feel really dumb.

That was so freaking awesome.

[jeebs9]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Well, we now found the NFL's source that Tom Brady did it.

It's not even like that. If you've played football on a team that likes to pass the pass (or any team). You know the QB's get super attached to how a ball feels. In HS my QB's would go nuts about the game day ball (He had a special bag to carry the ball. It was funny). And in college it was even worst. They had a bag of balls that were QB approved.

And I just don't like the tone of some people on this. It's one thing to say there is a chance Tom didn't know what he was doing. But to get caught and then lie. Makes the whole situation worst

He should of just gave the phone. That's why he got the 4 games. He could of came up with a much better story then "I burn my phones after I upgrade". And I just so happen to burn my phone after you asked for. If you know phones. He could of just said my phone crashed and I had to reformat it. Or like someone said just give them the info they want. Burning the phone doesn't do anything to help your case. And bad cover up is worst then the actually crime.

[Beantown]

Re: NFL Off Topic

He should of just gave the phone. That's why he got the 4 games.

Why? If my boss came up to me and said, "Hey, I think you have texts in your phone that mention you stealing from the company" I would, literally, laugh in her face. Not only is he not required to, but when you're in a union, doing that would then mean the league would expect every future player that gets in trouble to turn over their personal property to help prove their case. That's bad business.

And as for that being why he got 4 games, here's a footnote from the document:

footnote 11 on page 12: “After the hearing and after the submission of post-hearing briefs, Mr. Brady’s certified agents offered to provide a spreadsheet that would identify all of the individuals with whom Mr. Brady had exchanged text messages during [the relevant time] period; the agents suggested that the League could contact those individuals and request production of any relevant text messages that they retained.

Goodell said no. That's on the NFL, not Brady.



(Note - arguing this is too fun right now. Can the season just start so we can all focus on actually important ****?)

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I've never been a fan of "well if you did nothing wrong/have nothing to hide then just give them what they want." If what Tom said is true about supplying them with whatever material they requested then there should be no need to confiscate his personal property.

This whole story is hilarious, though. People are worried this will be a mark on the NFL's "integrity" and legacy? Seriously? The NFL hampers its integrity on a continued basis. This is just par for the course.

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

They never asked him for personal property, they asked him for the relevant texts - printouts and then all that could be produced was meta data about the texts since he had broken his phone.

As others have said on twitter, Goodell was basically begging for any reason to reduce his suspension and he got nothing. The NFLPA didn't even call the assistants as witnesses at the appeal. The ones that were fired in part for all of this non-wrongdoing (though one was selling footballs or something too I think?).

[wwharton]

Re: NFL Off Topic

OK so you are saying if the NFL went after Rodgers for overinflating his balls and suspended him for 4 games you would be OK with it?

And Jare you are so right. None of us are giving up our own cellphones to our employer unless they get a subpoena for whatever they want it for.

It's burning me up that actual reporters (ESPN and local hosts) are trying to run with this. Rodgers never (NEVER) said he played with illegally overinflated balls. He said he likes his balls a little more inflated and joked about trying to sneak one by the refs BEFORE they check.

His statement actually makes Brady look worse. Rodgers likes his balls a little over, but because of the rules he isn't allowed to play with them like that... makes it look worse when someone sneaks around the system to play with the air pressure they want.

Most importantly, the air pressure is not why Brady got 4 games. The other thing reporters (ESPN) are running with is the comparison to Hardy and how both are getting the same number of games. He got 4 games for smugly lying and fighting this to no end, costing the NFL a ton of money and making the league look worse by the day by keeping this in the news. This wasn't a big deal until Brady made it a big deal. No player is above the league, and the NFL will always do whatever it can to make sure it stays that way.

[jeebs9]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Why? If my boss came up to me and said, "Hey, I think you have texts in your phone that mention you stealing from the company" I would, literally, laugh in her face. Not only is he not required to, but when you're in a union, doing that would then mean the league would expect every future player that gets in trouble to turn over their personal property to help prove their case. That's bad business.

And as for that being why he got 4 games, here's a footnote from the document:

Goodell said no. That's on the NFL, not Brady.



(Note - arguing this is too fun right now. Can the season just start so we can all focus on actually important ****?)

I agree no one is handing their phone over in that situation. But why not just say that. It's his legal right not to give into the Boss. To cover himself. But why not just say that. Why say this story that you burn all your phones after use. No one does that.

I've never been a fan of "well if you did nothing wrong/have nothing to hide then just give them what they want." If what Tom said is true about supplying them with whatever material they requested then there should be no need to confiscate his personal property.

This whole story is hilarious, though. People are worried this will be a mark on the NFL's "integrity" and legacy? Seriously? The NFL hampers its integrity on a continued basis. This is just par for the course.

I totally agree about the first few lines. But saying I burned the phone doesn't even make sense. Just say I don't want to give you my phone and I don't have to. Here is the info you want. But no... he burned the phone so that they isn't even a chance to get the requested info. What sense does that make?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Why? If my boss came up to me and said, "Hey, I think you have texts in your phone that mention you stealing from the company" I would, literally, laugh in her face. Not only is he not required to, but when you're in a union, doing that would then mean the league would expect every future player that gets in trouble to turn over their personal property to help prove their case. That's bad business.

And as for that being why he got 4 games, here's a footnote from the document:

footnote 11 on page 12: “After the hearing and after the submission of post-hearing briefs, Mr. Brady’s certified agents offered to provide a spreadsheet that would identify all of the individuals with whom Mr. Brady had exchanged text messages during [the relevant time] period; the agents suggested that the League could contact those individuals and request production of any relevant text messages that they retained.

Goodell said no. That's on the NFL, not Brady.



(Note - arguing this is too fun right now. Can the season just start so we can all focus on actually important ****?)

The fact that Brady's team of lawyers gave the NFL a list of phone numbers to chase people down AFTER the hearing isn't really helping at all. If it's after the hearing, as the footnote mentions, the NFL can't do anything with that information anyways. The case is already closed, and it isn't the NFL's job to defend Tom Brady anyways. It's his job to defend himself. Walking up to the judge after the appeal has concluded and saying "Hey, I'm innocent, but rather than proving it, here's where you can find the information that will help me prove you wrong" makes no sense.

[Trapper700]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Tom Brady's destruction of evidence likely meets the standards of spoliation and the NFL will almost certainly seek sanctions

Specifically, the duty to preserve potentially relevant evidence may arise before the filing of a lawsuit if it is reasonably foreseeable that a lawsuit will be filed. It does not matter if the individual or organization is the initiator or the target of litigation, as the common law duty to preserve evidence arises at the moment that litigation is reasonably anticipated. The situation can arise, for example, if an individual or an organization plans to initiate litigation, a potential defendant receives a demand letter, a company learns that a former employee is seriously contemplating a lawsuit, or if an event or other circumstance would reasonably put an organization or an individual on notice that a lawsuit is likely to be filed.


In Brady’s case, his or the NFLPA’s attorneys will have to argue that litigation was somehow not reasonably foreseeable or anticipated despite every sports show talking head predicting that this situation would end up in court from the first day of the scandal. It seems highly implausible that a reasonable person in Brady’s situation would not foresee litigation and not think to preserve a cellphone after receiving multiple prior requests for it.

There is no doubt that the NFL’s legal team will pursue an adverse inference. In Goodell’s decision letter, he states:

there was an affirmative effort by Mr. Brady to conceal potentially relevant evidence and to undermine the investigation. Mr. Brady’s conduct gives rise to an inference that information from his cellphone, if it were available, would further demonstrate his direct knowledge of and involvement with the scheme to tamper with the game balls prior to the AFC Championship Game.

Finally, in footnote 12 of Goodell’s decision, he hints that Brady was acting under the advice of his attorneys. If true, his attorneys could also face severe sanctions, and even potential disbarment, if they actually ordered the destruction of highly relevant evidence.

At this point, both the NFL and Brady appear set for a lengthy court battle. However, Brady’s chances of success are drastically reduced due to his willful destruction of evidence. Even attempting to gain an injunction becomes exponentially more difficult as Brady’s likelihood of success on his overall claim is clouded by the lingering civil sanctions for destroying his phone.

[BigDaddyHolmes]

Re: NFL Off Topic

It's like buying a new shredder and trying to shred all the evidence a day before you are being audited for tax fraud.


Honestly, I was just cleaning out my closest guys. But believe me, there was no incriminating evidence in anything I shredded. Honest, cross my heart and hope to die peeps. This is just a simple misunderstanding.

If this were a court of law, and not just friendly NFl comish ruling, Brady would possibly be facing obstruction of justice charges from destroying evidence that the NFL could subpoena. That can lead to jail time. Your lawyer doesn't get to decide what the judge does and doesn't allow in the courtroom. Brady even stated he destroyed it. He can't even claim it got damaged on its own now. And if reports are accurate he did this on or a day or so before he was to meet with Wells. I don't know about you guys, but if I had evidence on my phone that proved I was innocent, I'd tuck it away and make sure no harm came to it. Wouldn't you guys?? Who destroys evidence that would set them free? Obviously he was guilty of something, or what is he hiding by destroying his phone?


If I were Brady I tuck my head between my tail, and move on. With each step he makes himself look even worse. What a shame. One of the best in history and keeps making himself look worse.

[redsox4evur]

Re: NFL Off Topic

The fact that Brady's team of lawyers gave the NFL a list of phone numbers to chase people down AFTER the hearing isn't really helping at all. If it's after the hearing, as the footnote mentions, the NFL can't do anything with that information anyways. The case is already closed, and it isn't the NFL's job to defend Tom Brady anyways. It's his job to defend himself. Walking up to the judge after the appeal has concluded and saying "Hey, I'm innocent, but rather than proving it, here's where you can find the information that will help me prove you wrong" makes no sense.

Why can't they do anything after the hearing? The case is still open until a final ruling is made and as of right now that ruling hasn't been made. Because is going to appeal this to the courts.

[mestevo]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Amazing, so 6/22 Berry found out he was cancer free, and managed to end up a pound heavier after chemotherapy, rather than losing a bunch of weight.

Incredible story.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Why can't they do anything after the hearing? The case is still open until a final ruling is made and as of right now that ruling hasn't been made. Because is going to appeal this to the courts.

It doesn't even matter if they could. It's Tom Brady's job to defend Tom Brady. It's the arbitrator's job to make a ruling based on the evidence in front of him; not to go out gathering evidence.

If you're found guilty, and you go into appeal by saying "This information will prove my innocence, but you'll just have to go find it for yourself!", I imagine your likelihood of winning that appeal is basically zero.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: NFL Off Topic

I agree no one is handing their phone over in that situation. But why not just say that. It's his legal right not to give into the Boss. To cover himself. But why not just say that. Why say this story that you burn all your phones after use. No one does that.



I totally agree about the first few lines. But saying I burned the phone doesn't even make sense. Just say I don't want to give you my phone and I don't have to. Here is the info you want. But no... he burned the phone so that they isn't even a chance to get the requested info. What sense does that make?

Can that info not be gathered from the telecomm company?

If Brady is known to have destroyed his phone after a certain period of time then it shouldn't matter how he destroys them. I'm sure its a more common practice with celebrities than other mobile users.

[Trapper700]

Re: NFL Off Topic

Can that info not be gathered from the telecomm company?

If Brady is known to have destroyed his phone after a certain period of time then it shouldn't matter how he destroys them. I'm sure its a more common practice with celebrities than other mobile users.

They can pull who he texted/received texts from and when but not the contents of the texts, which makes it kind of pointless. The only cell phone carrier that stores text data is Verizon and that's only for 3 to 5 days. You need the actual phone otherwise.