Official Denver Broncos Thread

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

you're willing to accept a QB who throws for 150 yards and 2 INTs but the team wins?

No, I said 180 yards. And yes...that's how ridiculous this has become.

[av7]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Stats are skewed for a QB though, like it was for Cutler. They put up more numbers when they're playing behind, alot more attempts and such.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

You are totally missing the point. I didn't say that stats are worthless. They can be very misleading. Wins trump stats.

No, YOU'RE missing the point. You're tying wins to QBs in an absolute way, as if the QB is somehow responsible for every nuance of the team. That's what coaches are for.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Stats are skewed for a QB though, like it was for Cutler. They put up more numbers when they're playing behind, alot more attempts and such.

Exactly right. Stats can be misleading.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

No, YOU'RE missing the point. You're tying wins to QBs in an absolute way, as if the QB is somehow responsible for every nuance of the team. That's what coaches are for.

How can you come out and say that? Did you even read my post (#1664) and make any attempt to understand what I was saying?

The bottom line is that QB is the most important position on the field, and regardless of what you think, how he performs effects the entire team. There is no white and black, it's all grey. Every game is different. What remains the same is there are wins and losses, and the quarterback more often than not is directly tied to it!

If you believe Orton will succeed and lead the Broncos back to the promised land, good for you. I think the Broncos can do better, but that doesn't mean I will root against him.

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I've been a regular member of this thread for years. The animosity here is ridiculous to the point I don't have a desire to post here nearly as much as I used to.

Why are we belittling others opinions because one person "knows" they are right.

Come on guys, that's not what this thread is about.

We are all Bronco fans and want the same thing, we are here to discuss the team, not argue with each other. For the longest time, this thread carried great discussion about the team and now we are left to arguing with each other about them?

This was the one safe place I had to talk about the Broncos and it is going by the wayside.

I am not saying this as a mod, I'm saying it as a Bronco fan who wants to see this thread get back to what it once was. Lets take it easy, listen to each other's opinions, and offer reasons why we disagree rather than attacking each other. This is not aimed at anyone, just a general request for the sake of the thread.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I've been a regular member of this thread for years. The animosity here is ridiculous to the point I don't have a desire to post here nearly as much as I used to.

Why are we belittling others opinions because one person "knows" they are right.

Come on guys, that's not what this thread is about.

We are all Bronco fans and want the same thing, we are here to discuss the team, not argue with each other. For the longest time, this thread carried great discussion about the team and now we are left to arguing with each other about them?

This was the one safe place I had to talk about the Broncos and it is going by the wayside.

I am not saying this as a mod, I'm saying it as a Bronco fan who wants to see this thread get back to what it once was. Lets take it easy, listen to each other's opinions, and offer reasons why we disagree rather than attacking each other. This is not aimed at anyone, just a general request for the sake of the thread.

For sure. We're two days away from Dallas, and I'm really pumped to see how the defense fares. From what went on today at practice, the defense got the better of the offense on a multitude of occasions. That's promising.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I've been a regular member of this thread for years. The animosity here is ridiculous to the point I don't have a desire to post here nearly as much as I used to.

Why are we belittling others opinions because one person "knows" they are right.

Come on guys, that's not what this thread is about.

We are all Bronco fans and want the same thing, we are here to discuss the team, not argue with each other. For the longest time, this thread carried great discussion about the team and now we are left to arguing with each other about them?

This was the one safe place I had to talk about the Broncos and it is going by the wayside.

I am not saying this as a mod, I'm saying it as a Bronco fan who wants to see this thread get back to what it once was. Lets take it easy, listen to each other's opinions, and offer reasons why we disagree rather than attacking each other. This is not aimed at anyone, just a general request for the sake of the thread.

I'm in.

Go Broncos! And go, Orton?

[kehlis]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

I'm in.

Go Broncos! And go, Orton?

Go Elvis!!

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Go Elvis!!

This, totally. If Elvis commands double teams, Ayers and Miller can go nuts.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Ugh...I was hoping the NFL network would be showing the Dallas game live, or at least replaying it Thursday night. It looks like I'll have to wait until Friday night.

[wwharton]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

So you'd rather have a QB who posts huge numbers, but loses (ala Orton)? Not me. Like it or not, a quarterback has to make plays to win close games. Orton has shown me that he cannot do that. I never said it was all his fault, but you are putting the blame everywhere but on him.

I think you are so caught up in trying to prove your point that you are no longer being honest with what is actually going on. Part of the reason the defense has been so bad IS Kyle Orton. If you can't put drives together, you put your defense right back out on the field. Do that enough times and they get tired. That happened to Larry Coyer's defense in 2006, Nolan's defense in 2009, and...well...Slowick's defense last year was abysmal. It's all tied together. Yes, the lack of a running game plays a part as well. Orton has to have everything working in harmony or the Broncos don't win. Very seldom does everything work in harmony. Kyle Orton has proven time after time that he cannot take over a game or overcome adversity. That's the truth. If you are looking for a quarterback that depends on the stars being aligned...Kyle's your guy.

I remember watching Orton play for the Bears a few years ago, and I said to myself, "Thank God Denver doesn't have a QB like that"... I died a little inside when it was announced that Cutler had been traded to Chicago and Orton was going to be Denver's new QB.

Honestly, you're missing the point but I won't keep drilling it bc I don't think you want to see it (don't take it as an insult, it's ok to agree to disagree). Quite simply, no matter how important the QB is, they aren't the end all on what decides a win vs a loss. We put out many legit reasons everything around Orton wasn't up to par. That's not everything having to be perfect, that's pretty much everything being a complete mess. Again, the best player on the team missed the entire season. Cutler wasn't even put in a situation like that, and his similar situation netted similar results in W/L.

Also, we're not saying Orton is a top tier QB, but there's no reason not to think he's good enough right now, and at the very least, by far the best option for them... and the players echo that.

BTW, Orton led the Bears to the playoffs before Grossman was just thrown in as the starter in week 17, and then onto the next season. It's actually funny to think that he doesn't win bc that's exactly what he did in Chicago... with a solid running game and defense.

You are totally missing the point. I didn't say that stats are worthless. They can be very misleading. Wins trump stats.

Wins do not trump stats. Wins are a stat but a very vague one as there are an infinite number of variables that further explain a win. Any stat alone is misleading, however the combination of stats paint a clearer picture. Saying something "is" because of a stat makes no sense, however that's also what you're doing when you just look at wins... especially when evaluating an individual player.

[Broncos86]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Great possibility the Broncos will be playing at Sports Authority Field at Mile High this year:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18658353

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Honestly, you're missing the point but I won't keep drilling it bc I don't think you want to see it (don't take it as an insult, it's ok to agree to disagree). Quite simply, no matter how important the QB is, they aren't the end all on what decides a win vs a loss. We put out many legit reasons everything around Orton wasn't up to par. That's not everything having to be perfect, that's pretty much everything being a complete mess. Again, the best player on the team missed the entire season. Cutler wasn't even put in a situation like that, and his similar situation netted similar results in W/L.

Also, we're not saying Orton is a top tier QB, but there's no reason not to think he's good enough right now, and at the very least, by far the best option for them... and the players echo that.

BTW, Orton led the Bears to the playoffs before Grossman was just thrown in as the starter in week 17, and then onto the next season. It's actually funny to think that he doesn't win bc that's exactly what he did in Chicago... with a solid running game and defense.

Wins do not trump stats. Wins are a stat but a very vague one as there are an infinite number of variables that further explain a win. Any stat alone is misleading, however the combination of stats paint a clearer picture. Saying something "is" because of a stat makes no sense, however that's also what you're doing when you just look at wins... especially when evaluating an individual player.

**heavy sigh**

Just stop already. We'll go round-and-round forever on this.

[Jonsco28]

Re: Official Denver Broncos Thread

Interesting article from Mark Kizla of the Denver Post:

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_18658072

I'm not opening this can up again, but I found his comparison of Tebow to Elway rather interesting.