Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

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  • pk500
    All Star
    • Jul 2002
    • 8062

    #16
    Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

    Patrick hit upon a sad fact of the console racing sim climate these days. Even when EA and other major console developers veered toward non-licensed arcadish racing games, you always could count on Codemasters to create excellent, licensed console racing sims, such as the TOCA and Colin McRae series.

    Now even the Codies have turned to the dark side, turning CMR into essentially Rallisport Challenge 3 with DIRT and apparently heading toward a Project Gotham-Need For Speed hybrid with the TOCA series. Very sad.

    There are four factors that I think seriously hurt console sim racing this decade. In no particular order:

    1. EA getting the NASCAR license. NASCAR is the most popular form of motorsport in the U.S., by far, so NASCAR video games also will be the most popular licensed racing games in the States, too. At the dawn of this decade, gamers could choose between Hasbro's NASCAR Heat and EA's NASCAR Thunder series for consoles. NASCAR Heat was a very, very good console sim, while Thunder was horrible. Then EA bought exclusive NASCAR rights, shutting out NASCAR Heat.

    EA had a promising start with NASCAR 2005, as the driving model was decent, and the addition of the career ladder with Modifieds, Trucks and the Busch Series was a very welcome addition. But EA has done nothing with the driving and racing models for its NASCAR franchise since NASCAR 2005, instead adding stupid features like Total Team Control. The series is atrophying severely.

    2. The popularity and financial success of the Burnout series. Make no mistake: Burnout is a really fun series, even if EA is running out of ideas on how to sustain it with each subsequent sequel. But Burnout is pure arcade racing, and the gaming industry is full of imitators. So when Burnout almost single-handedly revived arcade racing when the Ridge Racer and Need For Speed series were in the doldrums at the turn of this decade, other developers jumped back on the arcade racing bandwagon.

    3. The "Fast and the Furious" factor. "The Fast and the Furious" exposed the world to the growing tuner/drifting culture and its popularity in the coveted 18-34 male demographic. Gaming companies weren't blind to that phenomenon, either. Nearly every gaming company developed and released some sort of arcadish racing game that put more of an emphasis on car customization and street racing with tuner cars instead of licensed race cars on real tracks, whether it was Midnight Club, Need For Speed Underground or other games.

    4. The continued, inexplicable success of the Gran Turismo series. The original Gran Turismo is one of the greatest racing games ever, as it revolutionized what gamers could expect from a console racing game. Excellent physics, great graphics, a ton of mechanical customization and a huge stable of cars. But the game hasn't progressed one iota since its release in 1998. It still has brain-dead AI, horrible racing and an overemphasis on car tuning and setup instead of racing. Yet the game still sells like condoms to sailors on shore leave, and gamers still drool over every upcoming GT release.

    Again, gaming developers and publishers are lemmings. So other major players started to march in lockstep and developed GT-clone racing games, such as Sega GT and Forza. These games at least had licensed cars and licensed tracks, but they put more of an emphasis on car collecting and tuning instead of balls-out racing, just like the patriarch they all strove to emulate, the Gran Turismo series.

    Take care,
    PK
    Xbox Live: pk4425

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    • bkfount
      All Star
      • Oct 2004
      • 8467

      #17
      Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

      Originally posted by kneebon5
      i dont remember what NASCAR game for ps2 it was but it was a great career mode. You had your team, and had to buy your cars and engines and it took a certain amount of weeks to build things up, and you also had to do R&D to get faster. I played so much of that. Now there isnt even a career mode or anything like that, what happened from that point to now. oh yeah exclusive rights.
      actually, I remember the EA game you're talking about, and it was after they already got the exclusive rights I believe. They've even dabbled in making you climb the ranks of nascar.

      It's just that we got empty promises for next gen games, when tons of them don't even have as much content as last gen versions a year ago. We don't see more complex AI, better physics, and better presentation on a whole. We just get flashier graphics and more marketing.

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      • patrick721
        Rookie
        • Feb 2006
        • 26

        #18
        Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

        Another peeve of mine is we have all this graphical and processing power on consoles yet most of the games only allow you to race against 7 competetors. I understand the online limitations, but the limited number of AI drivers kills the offline mode. Forza 2 is a great example, I'm so sure all those people in the stands would show up to watch 8 cars race.

        PK when are you going to call another poker night?

        Comment

        • pk500
          All Star
          • Jul 2002
          • 8062

          #19
          Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

          Originally posted by bkfount
          actually, I remember the EA game you're talking about, and it was after they already got the exclusive rights I believe. They've even dabbled in making you climb the ranks of nascar.
          I don't think that game came after EA got exclusive rights. NASCAR 2005 was the first EA NASCAR game with the definitive Modifieds, Trucks, Busch career ladder, but you never had to buy parts and do R&D, from what I remember.

          Maybe we're thinking of the last Heat-based NASCAR game, Dirt to Daytona? Can't remember.

          Take care,
          PK
          Xbox Live: pk4425

          Comment

          • pk500
            All Star
            • Jul 2002
            • 8062

            #20
            Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

            Originally posted by patrick721
            PK when are you going to call another poker night?
            For rFactor? Sometime soon, hopefully. I'm just really busy with work and family now. This is the most hectic time of the year for me, by far.

            Take care,
            PK
            Xbox Live: pk4425

            Comment

            • kneebon5
              MVP
              • Dec 2005
              • 1772

              #21
              Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

              Originally posted by pk500
              I don't think that game came after EA got exclusive rights. NASCAR 2005 was the first EA NASCAR game with the definitive Modifieds, Trucks, Busch career ladder, but you never had to buy parts and do R&D, from what I remember.

              Maybe we're thinking of the last Heat-based NASCAR game, Dirt to Daytona? Can't remember.

              Take care,
              PK

              I think the one i really like and was talking about was NASCAR 03 i played the hell out of it in Iraq. There wasnt trucks or modifieds, it was just Cup, and it was all i needed. If you messed up bad enough you couldnt race anymore, and im sure that made some of the 10 year old kids out there mad.
              Watch my races here

              Comment

              • ramenite
                Rookie
                • Jul 2004
                • 320

                #22
                Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                No, it's as strong as it ever was....you just don't see the old "big name" players in it anymore. Papyrus is gone, and others picked it up.

                Open Wheel: Sony gave up the F1 exclusive license this year. Their console games were decent, but nothing to write home about. F1:CC was a fine start to the PS3 ones, but they are no more. EA is putting out an F1 game(rumored, although it's known they signed Lewis Hamilton to be a coverboy, what ELSE would they use him for?). If EA does what they did before, which was license the ISI engine, it could be something great. And they also should have a PC version. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a SimBin developed F1 game with EA as a publisher.

                But there are several EXCELLENT F1 mods for rFactor. CTDP 2005, the new 2007 mod from fsone.us, Grand Prix 1979, etc.

                Stockcar: Ok, EA dropped the ball. NASCAR Sim Racing was a dud. Their console games on the PS2 were actually decent for console games. Their "friend/foe system, hooking up with people to draft, their career mode, etc. were things that did add to the experience at the expense of "simulation". But overall, pretty decent console games. But they totally ignored the PC sim racer.

                Some people think the sun rises and sets on NRS 2003. It was great in its day. But seriously, let it go. Two rFactors mods of NASCAR Simulation Series, and rfStockcars are better. More tracks, better graphics, and better driving physics. If you choose to ignore what's been going on Sprint Cup simulations, because it's not a licensed title from Papyrus, you're missing out on some great racing.

                There's also the new ARCA game coming out. I haven't played it obviously, but it does look like it should be something special, and I do look forward to it.

                Other series: GTR2 overall may be the best pure driving sim made. Another SimBin release that's recent is Race 07. WTCC, F3000, Radicals, Formula BMW, and other support series are done VERY well. Even if you never heard of the World Touring Car Championship, get this game. It's one of the best racing games that have been released since GTR2. Lots of cars, and lots of tracks, and the same quality they brought to GTR2.

                And GT5 is around the corner. They have redone the physics, and added a bunch of cars and tracks, including the Top Gear test track. And considering it will have support for PC racing wheels not the G25, you should be able to hook up your current wheel.

                And there you have it. There's a lot going on with racing simulation. Just because there isn't a licensed NASCAR or F1 title on the market that blows people away, doesn't mean it's dying. Some people may also not look at "just a mod" and want a licensed game. That's your loss. There is plenty going on, you just have to open your eyes to see it.
                ...

                Comment

                • pk500
                  All Star
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 8062

                  #23
                  Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                  Originally posted by ramenite
                  Some people think the sun rises and sets on NRS 2003. It was great in its day. But seriously, let it go. Two rFactors mods of NASCAR Simulation Series, and rfStockcars are better. More tracks, better graphics, and better driving physics. If you choose to ignore what's been going on Sprint Cup simulations, because it's not a licensed title from Papyrus, you're missing out on some great racing.
                  I have tried NSS, SCE and TPSCC for rFactor, and the only one that approaches NR 2003 is NSS. And it's still not as good in terms of driving and racing models. The driving model lacks the proper grip model of NR 2003, and the racing model is too permissive at some places. Take Daytona, for instance: You can beat and bang all day at that track and not get spun. That's very unrealistic. That said, NSS is still a worthy NASCAR mod for rFactor.

                  Other great things about NR 2003 that none of the rFactor mods have are the endless amount of real and fictional liveries, the endless amounts of add-on tracks, especially real American short tracks, and at least eight mods based on the superb Papy physics and racing model, such as Busch, Trucks, Whelen Mods, Cup 88, Cup 90, GN 1970, Saturday Night Stock Car, Trans-Am and IROC.

                  So yes, the sun still rises and sets on NR 2003 when it comes to stock car racing sims for the PC. ARCA Sim Racing is a promising contender for the crown, and it ships this weekend. I hope it's a great game that does well at the cash register.

                  Originally posted by ramenite
                  Other series: GTR2 overall may be the best pure driving sim made.
                  Have you played Grand Prix Legends or Richard Burns Rally? Both are much tougher to drive than GTR 2. You're right about GTR 2, though: It's a superb game.

                  These are all topics for fun debate!

                  Originally posted by ramenite
                  And there you have it. There's a lot going on with racing simulation. Just because there isn't a licensed NASCAR or F1 title on the market that blows people away, doesn't mean it's dying. Some people may also not look at "just a mod" and want a licensed game. That's your loss. There is plenty going on, you just have to open your eyes to see it.
                  Very well said, man.

                  Take care,
                  PK
                  Xbox Live: pk4425

                  Comment

                  • BIG CAROLINA
                    MVP
                    • Aug 2007
                    • 1762

                    #24
                    Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                    Man, I just picked up Dirt to Daytona and all I have to say is how in the H did I miss this game. I have been playing this game non-stop since Friday. This is by far and away the best Nascar game on a console.

                    Whom ever makes the next Nascar game please, please play D2D and steal their career format. I have never played a racing game this much.
                    GT: BIG CAROLINA23

                    PSN: BIG_CAROLINA


                    "Life is too short for a man to hold bitterness in his heart."
                    Marshall W. "Major" Taylor

                    Comment

                    • Bellsprout
                      Hard Times.
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 25652

                      #25
                      Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                      I loathed PGR4. Don't make me buy "packs" of cars. I'll buy the ones I want and nothing else. I hated that. I ended up selling it and rebuying PGR3.

                      I think the new Gran Turismo will sell like gangbusters when it comes out. You know, if it ever does.
                      Member: OS Uni Snob Association | Twitter: @MyNameIsJesseG | #WT4M | #WatchTheWorldBurn
                      Originally posted by l3ulvl
                      A lot of you guys seem pretty cool, but you have wieners.

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                      • pk500
                        All Star
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 8062

                        #26
                        Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                        Originally posted by Steve_OS
                        Next Generation has posted an article entitled, Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?
                        "Impossibly shiny cars, breathtaking speed, blue skies and roaring engines: racers were once videogaming’s ultimate expression of realism crossed with escapist fantasy. But while other genres have rapidly evolved, from the thunder and bluster of modern FPSes to the vast scope of RPGs, racers seem stuck in the same old routine of race upon tournament.

                        Even the biggest sellers don’t seem to be performing as well as they used to: once a perennial fixture at the very top of the UK Christmas chart, Need For Speed managed only fifth place as 2007 turned to 2008. Buried in the blizzard of last year’s big releases, Project Gotham Racing 4 has failed to ignite the same fervor as its predecessors. And can Gran Turismo’s luster really sell PS3 the same way it once did PS1 and PS2?"
                        I take it the author never has played iRacing. That game has single-handedly breathed new life into PC sim racing.
                        Xbox Live: pk4425

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                        • superjames1992
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 31382

                          #27
                          Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                          Originally posted by pk500
                          I take it the author never has played iRacing. That game has single-handedly breathed new life into PC sim racing.
                          The article is from two years ago before iRacing came along.
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                          • mercalnd
                            MVP
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 4262

                            #28
                            Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                            Originally posted by pk500
                            I take it the author never has played iRacing. That game has single-handedly breathed new life into PC sim racing.
                            Originally posted by superjames1992
                            The article is from two years ago before iRacing came along.
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                            What's somewhat funny is that PK500 actually made 7 posts in this thread 2 years ago.

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                            • pk500
                              All Star
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 8062

                              #29
                              Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                              Originally posted by superjames1992
                              The article is from two years ago before iRacing came along.
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                              Oops!
                              Xbox Live: pk4425

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                              • pk500
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 8062

                                #30
                                Re: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

                                Originally posted by mercalnd
                                What's somewhat funny is that PK500 actually made 7 posts in this thread 2 years ago.
                                I've drank a lot of beer and scotch since then. Cut me some slack.
                                Xbox Live: pk4425

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