iRacing

[NEWYORICAN]

Re: iRacing

i just look at it this way, that is 13 Mt. Dews i dont have to drink in a month. It doesnt seem too bad for all they are offering, and with the way it is layed out, i cant wait to be able to funally just go sign up for a 9pm race, and race.

I think after awhile it will pick up, this isnt for everyone. It is differnt from anything else out there.

LOL!!..yep, you sure can look at it that way.

Lets us know how it is and how much enjoyment you get out of it. Just curious to know what I'll be missing out. Probably some good fun racing!!

thanks

peace
Ernesto

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

If the sim is as accurate as they claim it is, $13 a month is pretty cheap. Lately I've been looking into doing some local SSCA stuff, and the cost to do that is insane when you consider how little track time you get. You can easily spend $1,000 a weekend, and get less than an hour and a half worth of track time. And of course that doesn't include the price of the car, and everything you spent up to that point.

iRacing can make the most realistic sim ever created, and it still won't compare to the actual sensation of driving a race car unless you're driving it in an insane-quality simulator like this one:

http://www.cxcsimulations.com/

Otherwise, iRacing with a G25 still isn't going to create the seat-of-the-pants feel and g-forces that a real race car generates. iRacing may redefine sims, but at the end of the day, it's still a video-based sim, not the real thing.

I'll wait for feedback, but I just don't get the impression that iRacing is going to be miles ahead of existing sims, such as Grand Prix Legends, that it will merit the subscription price.

The physics model may be sublime in iRacing, but it's still a physics model that is restricted by the limitations of existing computer hardware and racing peripherals.

And honestly, I don't really care that iRacing has measured and re-created its circuits to the nth millimeter with laser measurements because I really don't see how that will create a quantum leap in simulation. If the bumps, curbs and imperfections of the racing surfaces are re-created to that painstaking detail, then that's an advance. But if the physics model doesn't process those to the same realism or you don't have racing peripherals that can translate that realism into equally precise feedback, control and force simulation, then the whole exercise is somewhat moot.

I think iRacing will be a very good sim for those who have simulators like the one to which I linked above. But iRacing with a DFP or G25 seems to be overkill to me because that kind of hardware simply won't translate all of the realism that the game promises to deliver.

Take care,
PK

[Chaos81]

Re: iRacing

iRacing can make the most realistic sim ever created, and it still won't compare to the actual sensation of driving a race car unless you're driving it in an insane-quality simulator like this one:

http://www.cxcsimulations.com/

Even with one of those you won't come close to the actual sensation of driving a race car. Chris is a good guy and all, but even he can't do magic.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at with bringing up real racing. It's no different a comparison then what you can make with any other sim. I just mentioned it because many people don't realize what it costs to go racing, myself include until lately.

But iRacing with a DFP or G25 seems to be overkill to me because that kind of hardware simply won't translate all of the realism that the game promises to deliver.

That's the whole point though.

They aren't pushing this as a "game". They've said many times this isn't for your average person, and they don't expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to purchase it. Yes, I realize other companies have said the same, but I don't feel those companies have the money, or the resources behind them to make it true. With Dave Kaemmer and John Henry, iRacing has both of those.



Just out of curiosity here pk, what would be miles ahead of GPL in your book? You said yourself current hardware and peripherals aren't up to the task, so if that's the case, then how can you ever feel a sim is miles ahead? It kind of seems like you've already decided nothing can beat GPL and other current sims.

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

Even with one of those you won't come close to the actual sensation of driving a race car. Chris is a good guy and all, but even he can't do magic.

I spent 20 minutes in Chris' simulator at Long Beach and know Chris, too, and it's as close to magic as you can get!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

They aren't pushing this as a "game". They've said many times this isn't for your average person, and they don't expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to purchase it. Yes, I realize other companies have said the same, but I don't feel those companies have the money, or the resources behind them to make it true. With Dave Kaemmer and John Henry, iRacing has both of those.

But it IS a game, regardless of what kind of hype iRacing throws at us. Aircraft simulators for flight training can be considered true sims because there is control over the hardware -- these machines use identical control and computer hardware and are in places like Johnson Space Center, not the home environment.

But iRacing is for a home environment, which makes it only as good as the hardware -- both PC and controller -- that you're using. So even if the physics model is amazing, someone using a G25, 9800GT and triple-LCD monitors is going to have a more realistic experience than someone using a Logitech Formula Force, an older video card and a 17-inch monitor.

If iRacing wasn't a game, then it would come packaged with proprietary control hardware that would ensure a uniform experience for every user, just like a professional flight simulator.

Just out of curiosity here pk, what would be miles ahead of GPL in your book? You said yourself current hardware and peripherals aren't up to the task, so if that's the case, then how can you ever feel a sim is miles ahead? It kind of seems like you've already decided nothing can beat GPL and other current sims.

I don't doubt that iRacing could, and probably will, have a better physics model than GPL and probably the best we've seen in a sim game. But the company's claim that it is a simulator and not a game is just elitist marketing bullsh*t, in my opinion.

Take care,
PK

[kneebon5]

Re: iRacing

If iRacing wasn't a game, then it would come packaged with proprietary control hardware that would ensure a uniform experience for every user, just like a professional flight simulator.

Dont give them ideas PK im already going to spend enough with them.

I know what your saying though, It would be nice to have that controlled enviorment where they could build it for one set control.

Its still going to be fun as hell.

Just cant wait to see the outburst from some people when they find out they cant run their own number.

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

Kneebs:

I'm very eager for feedback from you and chaos. I trust your opinion.

Take care,
PK

[kneebon5]

Re: iRacing

Kneebs:

I'm very eager for feedback from you and chaos. I trust your opinion.

Take care,
PK

Just a little update for those that didnt know.

www.iracing.com has a new look and alot more info.


Youtube iracing and you will get a ton of videos

There are also some good ones at Blip.tv

And if you want on a list for the first wave, go to http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=320769

Sporting Code can be found at http://members.iracing.com/membersit...ode_042408.pdf

Hopefully i will have it on my CPU in the next week or so. Right now of the OSers i talk to i know Chaos81 and Slizzle24 are on a list.

So once we get our hands on it we will let you know how it compares to ASR and Rfactor, and NR2003.

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

iRacing also revealed last week that it is charging $15 for each new car and anywhere from $15-25 for each new track.

Add that to the subscription fees, and this pricing model is getting out of hand. There is absolutely no way that I'm getting this, as I've read nothing to indicate that the iRacing experience is worth $200 or more per year (subscription, extra cars, tracks, etc.) compared to existing sims like rFactor, GPL, NR 2003, etc.

The only justification I've seen is "laser-measured tracks," "organized stat tracking," etc. Big whoop.

Plus, there's no offline racing, no impromptu pickup racing or impromptu league racing. Everything is structured online into the format, class and times that iRacing determines.

This paragraph from Jens Lindblad's "preview" of iRacing at SimHQ.com also is troubling:

There are a lot of things that trouble me about iRacing, but this quote from Jens Lindblad's "preview" at SimHQ bothers me the most:

“You should absolutely never ever drive into other cars on track, in fact you must take the utmost care to avoid contact between you and another competitor as contact will cost you incident points that are subtracted from your iRacing license, that’s right dear reader, you have to earn your license and work at being promoted up the ladder towards bigger and more powerful cars, and if you throw away points by even accidentally hitting other cars, the retaining wall, go off course or spin out, your promotion beyond rookie license will be moving further and further away.”

A bit draconian, don't you think? I agree that measures should be erected to prevent rampant cornholing and driving backward, but Kaemmer expects races in the Legends cars at South Boston to be contact-free? Or thinks no one will take a slightly overambitious dive into a corner at Lime Rock and back off after making slight, innocuous contact?

These guys either are dreaming or are watching different real-life races than me if they think coincidental contact doesn't exist in racing.

Ryan Briscoe and Nelson Piquet Jr. would have been fired before May if the iRacing rules applied to the IndyCar Series and F1, respectively.

So, I'm supposed to shell out more than two Benjamins per year for this, when I can play a limitless amount of mods and tracks when I want and with whom I want with rFactor, which has cost me nothing more than the $40 purchase price?

Sorry, no thanks.

Take care,
PK

[kneebon5]

Re: iRacing

iRacing also revealed last week that it is charging $15 for each new car and anywhere from $15-25 for each new track.

Thats been out there for the longest time. And it really doesnt effect me, as i am going to race what i can, and move up as i can. And by next year i will get another 60 free dollars with my membership and buy what i need for the next classes.

Im only going to be spending about 170 each year, if that. Thats a whole 2 days of work, or one day on a holiday for me. So i guess it just depends on how much you can afford. I know it is a hell of alot better than the 5000 i spent racing karts when i was 17.

As for the races, they go off every 2 hours for ovals, and the hours between road races go off, so there is nonstop racing. And if you dont want to race you can go do Time Trials, which seems like it will be another great challenge doing 5-20 laps on a track without making a mistake.

Qualifying you get as many tries, for that week, which is fine, then i can get off work at 1:30 and be racing at 2.

I get to race people that are at the same skill level as me. That will be nice.

No Leagues...(its one big one)
Best thing i have ever heard in my opinion. What better than to knock down the egos of some people, and stop spreading the community think with 15 people here and 15 there, oh and 6 over there and then 20 here. All for the same mod. This is one huge community and i hope they never allow leagues because it will only hurt racing once again.

Contact. 1 little incident isnt going to send you to the death chair. hell 22 of them in one race isnt going to. The small stuff like that is there so you know. Now if you take a guy out with a big hit, and they slam the wall, well you get all those points too, but you should. Because in real racing you would have a broken nose to go with it also. If you are causing problems all race long incident after incident, well you are not going to advance to the next level, and you will have to learn to be clean before you can. As you go up in class it gets harder to advance, as it should. You can hardly lose your license because you would over night have to turn into a turd and cause crashes in every race after that.

As for rfactor. the best thing to hit rfactor so far is Piddy's laser scan track, and he wont be doing another until he can afford to. The racing community is a bunch of spoiled kids, that want want want, but never want to pay. If it was up to me rfactor mods would cost money so that rfactor could profit off of what they made. And so the mod makers would be forced to actually put out a good product, instead we get 50 versions of half ssed stuff. The sim racing world could really learn from the flight sim world.

PK i know you already have made up your mind, but i really think you should try it out with the 20 dollar trial version once you can. I will be posting more once i get in and actually see how it works, i am just going off of everything i have read in the sporting code, and what my close friends that are beta testers have told me.

I am sorry if you took my advice on ARCA Sim. What we beta tested did not get released and it all went to crap. And now they are not following on promises.

[av7]

Re: iRacing

I was interested but I wanna see what people think of it. The monthly subscription is a bummer but then again the game should get updated nicely; would be my 3rd game to have a subscription basis.

[kneebon5]

Re: iRacing

I was interested but I wanna see what people think of it. The monthly subscription is a bummer but then again the game should get updated nicely; would be my 3rd game to have a subscription basis.

never have done a suscription based game. But i do have netflix, which i am getting rid of, replacing with this.

I know you will get a ton of feedback from us 3 that are getting it.

edit: if you havnt check out their new website, looks nice.

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

No Leagues...(its one big one)
Best thing i have ever heard in my opinion. What better than to knock down the egos of some people, and stop spreading the community think with 15 people here and 15 there, oh and 6 over there and then 20 here. All for the same mod. This is one huge community and i hope they never allow leagues because it will only hurt racing once again.

Couldn't disagree more. The PC golf sim community is one huge community, and its players aren't forced into one tournament on our course with one game per week.

Anything that restricts choice for the player and charges a fee is a big negative for me.

Contact. 1 little incident isnt going to send you to the death chair. hell 22 of them in one race isnt going to. The small stuff like that is there so you know. Now if you take a guy out with a big hit, and they slam the wall, well you get all those points too, but you should. Because in real racing you would have a broken nose to go with it also. If you are causing problems all race long incident after incident, well you are not going to advance to the next level, and you will have to learn to be clean before you can. As you go up in class it gets harder to advance, as it should. You can hardly lose your license because you would over night have to turn into a turd and cause crashes in every race after that.

Good to know, because Jens' preview made it sound like coincidental contact would be penalized as heavily as deliberate cornholing, and that's ridiculous.

As for rfactor. the best thing to hit rfactor so far is Piddy's laser scan track, and he wont be doing another until he can afford to. The racing community is a bunch of spoiled kids, that want want want, but never want to pay. If it was up to me rfactor mods would cost money so that rfactor could profit off of what they made. And so the mod makers would be forced to actually put out a good product, instead we get 50 versions of half ssed stuff. The sim racing world could really learn from the flight sim world.

That's a gross generalization. Yes, there are a ton of crap mods out there. But there also are plenty of good ones.

PK i know you already have made up your mind, but i really think you should try it out with the 20 dollar trial version once you can. I will be posting more once i get in and actually see how it works, i am just going off of everything i have read in the sporting code, and what my close friends that are beta testers have told me.

I'm going to need to read something in feedback threads that just blows me away. So far, nothing has even come close to compelling me to get this game. Most importantly, no one has sufficiently explained in detail how and why the racing and physics models of this game are far superior to those offered in existing sims.

So far, iRacing sounds to me like a sim racer elitist's fraternity or country club. There are a lot of noses in the air from some beta testers of this game, as if any disagreement or skepticism of the game is just the utterances of the great, unwashed masses.

I am sorry if you took my advice on ARCA Sim. What we beta tested did not get released and it all went to crap. And now they are not following on promises.

Yeah, I was very, very disappointed with that game. It was a glorified rFactor oval mod, and rFactor doesn't do ovals worth a turd. But no worries, man! I didn't get it solely on your recommendation!

Eager to read more feedback from you and others about iRacing. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but it's hard since there's so much about this sim that bends me out of joint, from pricing to structure to the arrogance of the developers and many (not all) beta testers.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: iRacing

Here's what burns my azz about the iRacing concept more than anything: iRacing has the sack to call this game a suitable substitution for actual racing.

I just checked iRacing's nice new public Web site, which includes this promotional copy:

"At a fraction of the cost, you'll be able to experience the challenge of global motorsport whenever you choose, and because iRacing.com automatically groups racers of similar skill levels together, everyone has a chance to compete for race wins and season championships. For those who compete in the physical world, it's also a valuable opportunity to hone your racecraft in side-by-side racing, experience that would otherwise require years and a financial commitment that for many is simply out of reach."

From the FAQ's:

"Is this a game?"
"No, iRacing.com is not a video game. It is a subscription-based simulation service for real-world racers and racing enthusiasts, as well as a platform for a new branch of global motorsport — known as internet racing — which is the sport of real-time, online racing."

This is elitist bullsh*t. iRacing is a video game, regardless of its sim qualities. It is NOT a replacement for or a suitable substitution for real racing. Yes, professional racers can train on it to learn courses and possibly get a very rough feel for the handling characteristics of a car.

But someone sitting at home, playing this game in a chair on a PC with a Logitech wheel, isn't going to get anywhere near the sensation of actually driving one of these machines. iRacing is trying to convince the world otherwise, and it's grating.

If iRacing just stuck to the mantra that it's the highest level of internet motorsport available, that wouldn't bother me. But it's trying to sell this game as a motorsport simulator that provides the same sensations as actual racing at a fraction of the cost.

Also, why can't you get suitable training for racing side-by-side and drive against people of your skill level from around the world through other sims? I do that now in rFactor and have done it in GPL and NR 2003. iRacing is acting like it is creating the world of online sim racing, which has existed for a decade.

This is a game. It appears to be a damn good online sim game, possibly the best ever created, but it's a GAME.

OK, enough ranting, raving and rambling from me. I wish those who are playing iRacing all the best, and I'm still eager for your feedback!

Take care,
PK

[kneebon5]

Re: iRacing

ha, i love we have different views on about everything we come across on here.

It is a replacement for real racing for me. All online racing is. Its the competition not the "feel of racing". And this you can actually move up. Which adds goals. Yes they are going to put out garbage lines that over state and stretch the facts, they are now in selling mode.

If i didnt have online racing, i would have to find some way to race, i dont have the money for the real deal.

Plus these are still good training tools for anyone that is looking at getting a start in racing. They learn how to act around other drivers, and how to pass and so on. I worked a dirt karting track for a few years, and seen this in the kids coming through the ranks, even Ratbag games taught them something if they didnt treat it as a game. They knew how to pass and how to race better than those that didnt, of coarse there are the ones that never have and are still good.

I guess its just how you look at it. Im not calling it a game. Im racing, just because im not physicaly moving, doesnt mean i'm not racing. Your starting to sound like my ex PK, maybe im just a loser and thats why she is now my ex. ha.

hopefully next week i can give you a review.