The Dark Knight Discussion **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

The look of The Joker?
Author: Jett From
Monday, April 13, 2007 - 6:42 AM CENTRAL TIME: This comes from our source "Slappy The White Clown Prince." It comes from him secondhand, so take with a grain of salt. I can't reveal how he acquired this info, but I will say the has provided BOF was solid news in the past. According to him:
* The Joker will have gray skin with lot's of scarring.
* The Joker's costume will be raggedy (This may confirm the info BOF got a long while ago saying that his costume will look as if it was something he put together one piece at a time).
* He's going to look damn scary, not clownish.
There is also some scuttlebutt that Warner Bros. will reveal The Joker soon -- like this summer -- to head off any bootleg pictures of Heath Ledger in costume that could pop up online.

I'm getting excited, though I still think they shouldn't reveal The Joker 100% until the actual movie.

[Snigitty James]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion



I've been hearing Heath's Joker will look similar to this sketch by Lee Bermejo.

[MachoMyers]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Freakin Awesome. I'm more fired up to see Joker then I was to see Venom in Spidey 3. This movie could be epic.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Boo this "pseudo-realistic" BS. The joker's look doesnt need to be tampered with. Guess what? he's not supposed to look scary, he's supposed to look clownish. It's part of character. Begins had its flaws but i was willing to look past them because of an overall good reboot to my favorite character, but this is going to suck hard if the joker has a **** makeup job. What's next, TwoFace doesnt get his face burnt with acid but is just a schizo with multiple personalities? Give me a break.

[SPTO]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Boo this "pseudo-realistic" BS. The joker's look doesnt need to be tampered with. Guess what? he's not supposed to look scary, he's supposed to look clownish. It's part of character. Begins had its flaws but i was willing to look past them because of an overall good reboot to my favorite character, but this is going to suck hard if the joker has a **** makeup job. What's next, TwoFace doesnt get his face burnt with acid but is just a schizo with multiple personalities? Give me a break.

I don't agree with everything in this quote but I do agree about the Joker. He's not supposed to be scary. He's supposed to look like a somewhat crazed clown figure who uses his morbid sense of humour and style to bring out the fear in his victims. He's supposed to not be threatening per se when you see him but once you get involved in whatever Joker's up to then he becomes the scariest and most F'ed up character in the DCU.

I'm willing to have an open mind about this and will reserve total judgement until I see how he looks.

[sven]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

I've been hearing Heath's Joker will look similar to this sketch by Lee Bermejo.

Thats an awesome picture.

He's not supposed to be scary.

Yes he is. The only person who should find the Joker funny is the Joker.

[AuburnAlumni]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

I don't agree with everything in this quote but I do agree about the Joker. He's not supposed to be scary. He's supposed to look like a somewhat crazed clown figure who uses his morbid sense of humour and style to bring out the fear in his victims. He's supposed to not be threatening per se when you see him but once you get involved in whatever Joker's up to then he becomes the scariest and most F'ed up character in the DCU.

I'm willing to have an open mind about this and will reserve total judgement until I see how he looks.

Wrong.

The LAST thing Nolan should do is to imitate the Joker ala Jack Nicholson from the Burton film.

He did Batman Begins the right way for it to be successful...he went COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of the equally great yet completely different Tim Burton vision of "Batman" in 1989.

He needs to continue that trend. Nolan's Joker..much like Nolan's Batman..should be much more realistic and brutal.

With that said...I'm a firm believe that Nolan's Joker should be ABSOLUTELY frightening and not nearly the "lovable criminal" that Nicholson was.

[Snigitty James]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Wrong.

The LAST thing Nolan should do is to imitate the Joker ala Jack Nicholson from the Burton film.

He did Batman Begins the right way for it to be successful...he went COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of the equally great yet completely different Tim Burton vision of "Batman" in 1989.

He needs to continue that trend. Nolan's Joker..much like Nolan's Batman..should be much more realistic and brutal.

With that said...I'm a firm believe that Nolan's Joker should be ABSOLUTELY frightening and not nearly the "lovable criminal" that Nicholson was.

Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[SPTO]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

With that said...I'm a firm believe that Nolan's Joker should be ABSOLUTELY frightening and not nearly the "lovable criminal" that Nicholson was.

I think you misinterpret me a bit. Have you read the TPB STRANGE APPARITIONS? It contains the Englehart/Rogers run on DETECTIVE comics in the late 70s. There's a couple of issues that deal with the Joker and that's the way the way I want Joker portrayed. He's very scary yes but the driving force of that fear is due to Joker's insane sense of humour and what he thinks is funny may not be funny to all of us. He's a disturbing pyschotic madman who happens to have a strange style to him.

I'm not longing for a "lovable criminal" take on the Joker but rather a Joker who's scary because of his personality and how he goes about his crimes. He doesn't have to be visually the most scary person you've seen but once you interact with him his physical feature DO become very frightening.

[Snigitty James]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion




This is another sketch of the Joker by the same artist. As you can see there are some nasty scars and deformations on his face. The Joker in TDK will be the exact opposite of Jack Nicholson's version like was stated above. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT!

As for the clothing style, you won't see this Joker running around laughing with a purple and green suit on shooting acid from a flower on his jacket, not goona happen. The Joker basically wears what he finds, he's a pyscho path killer so he's sure to be changing his garb quite a bit. Lee Bermejo was inspired by the character Tyler Durden from Fight Club and drew the Joker here in some old retro type clothing.

Many people in this thread seem to have already gotten what Nolan is going for as far as the Joker is concerned, which is a very good thing.

[Snigitty James]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

This is old news, but it gives some good info on the new batsuit and what the Joker will wear.


Some Costume Info
Author: Jett
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:07 AM, 6:27 PM: Not too long ago, BOF was told that the Bat-suit for TDK would be “sleeker” than its predecessor and show how Bruce would make advancements to his gear. Well, an insider is back to offer a bit more insight into The Batman’s new threads.

Our guy tells us to look for a suit that’s “athletic” and be more “fabricky” -- if I can use that as a description. There will still be an element of the sculpted “body armor” on the suit, so don’t expect something totally rubber-free.

My take is that the suit is not going to look drasticly different from the one seen in BATMAN BEGINS. But one would expect Bruce Wayne to tweek and improve the suit, so we'll see that in TDK. Now, as far as The Joker is concerned…

We know that Heath Ledger's portrayal will be nothing like we've seen before on screen -- i.e Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson. Consequently, don't expect TDK's Joker to be "costumed" as we've seen in the past either. While he will still clearly look like and be The Joker, expect him to be "less cartoony," if you will. Our source told BOF, "[Since The Joker is] much more dark, sinister, and threatening [in TDK], his costume is very much going to reflect that." He added, "It's not going to be a suit that is tailored for him, but more something he acquired. I mean, what tailor would actually make a suit for The Joker?"

[Snigitty James]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

I think you misinterpret me a bit. Have you read the TPB STRANGE APPARITIONS? It contains the Englehart/Rogers run on DETECTIVE comics in the late 70s. There's a couple of issues that deal with the Joker and that's the way the way I want Joker portrayed. He's very scary yes but the driving force of that fear is due to Joker's insane sense of humour and what he thinks is funny may not be funny to all of us. He's a disturbing pyschotic madman who happens to have a strange style to him.

I'm not longing for a "lovable criminal" take on the Joker but rather a Joker who's scary because of his personality and how he goes about his crimes. He doesn't have to be visually the most scary person you've seen but once you interact with him his physical feature DO become very frightening.

Careful what you wish for.


Penn Declined and Joker Inspirations
Author: Jett
Friday, August 25, 2006 - 12:00 PM CENTRAL TIME: According to INSOMNICAMANIA.COM, Jerry Robinson -- who was instrumental in the creation of The Joker -- will work as an advisor/consultant on THE DARK KNIGHT...

“Our Best Source” is back with some interesting revelations:
“
You might want to dig up one of my ‘scoops’ for you from a long time ago -- just after Goyer leaked that The Joker would be in the sequel.

If you recall, I let you know that they would be going back to The Joker's first ever appearance, in BATMAN #1 1940, as the plot-line for the sequel. They will also be mixing in some plot threads from The Joker's celebrated ‘comeback’ tale from the 1970s, ‘The Joker's Five-Way Revenge.’

You may also be interested to know that Sean Penn was their first choice for Joker, and passed.
Doing an article search on one-time candidate, Aussie Lachy Hulme, I also found an old article in an Australian newspaper comparing him to Sean Penn in terms of looks and acting style. Small world, eh?”

He's right on with that Joker inspiration info -- I remember distinctly that info. It's somewhere in the archives and I'll dig through them later and find his scoop (Unless one of you BOF'ers beats me to it). Anyway, I found this blurb on "The Joker's 5 Way Revenge" from WIKIPEDIA.ORG:
"In 1973, the character was revived and profoundly revised in the BATMAN comic stories by Dennis O'Neil and Neal Adams. Beginning in BATMAN #251 with the story "The Joker's Five Way Revenge", the Joker became a homicidal maniac who casually murdered people - even his own henchmen - on a whim, but enjoyed the battle of wits with Batman. This take on the character has been predominant since. Steve Englehart, in his short but well-received run on the book, added elements deepening the severity of the Joker's insanity."

I remember vividly having that comic as a kid in the 70s and can still recall thinking how "bad" The Joker was. I was still used to Cesar Romero's Joker from the TV show. Anyway, here's hoping they use a bit of that story in TDK...



Nolan Talks TDK!
Author: Jett
Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:54 AM CENTRAL TIME: Nolan has finally spoken publicly about the upcoming film, THE DARK KNIGHT. Via BETTERTHANFUDGE.COM, here’s a bit of what the director had to say:

Regarding the theme of the film: “I suppose in loose terms I can say it’s about things having to get worse before they get better.”

Can anything be inferred from the title of the film? “Ultimately yes. But I’ll leave that for people to infer The title has been chose very specifically. It’s quite important to the film.”

Will The Joker be different that past live-action interpretations? “Yes. I would certainly point to The Killing Joke but I also would point very much to the first two appearances of The Joker in the comic. If you look at where The Joker comes from there’s a very clear direction that fits what we’re doing very well.”

[SPTO]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Snigitty James that's the way I want the Joker to be portrayed.

Let's hope they keep it that way.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

I think the Joker will reflect those pictures, in terms of the realism, but I don't think they will be as frightening. As far as his clothing, I think Nolan should build up the character over the course of the following two movies. I mean, he should not start off wearing suits and having a gang, he should build up a reputation and then acquire those things.

I don't want the Joker to look clownish or cartoonish ala Tim Burton's Joker. Sure, thats a side of the Joker that should be displayed in one way, but that look would definitely clash with what Nolan is basing this franchise on. I want the Joker's actions and reasonings to be a dark, sadistic clown/cartoon-humor, but not his face.

Sniggity, do you know if there will be any type of background on the Joker in the movie?

EDIT: Update on BOF regarding what Jett posted earlier.

UPDATE: "Slappy" tells BOF that us that the description above of TDK's Joker is not of the final design, but is indicative of where they're heading in regards to the final look...
For those of y'all avoiding spoilers, you may want to skip this -- a report from SUPERHEROHYPE.COM about filming in Chicago tonight.

[Tha_Kid]

Re: Batman 2 Discussion

Many people in this thread seem to have already gotten what Nolan is going for as far as the Joker is concerned, which is a very good thing.

To some.

I find it to be garbage. Ra's Al Ghul portrayal in Begins was a pretty weak throw in and unfaithful as well (origin, no lazurus pit, no talia, etc.) but Ra's was the least well known of the rogues gallery brought into the films so far so you could get away with it. I don't see how so many of you are eager for not only an unfaithful take but frankly a flat out bad one with the joker wearing scraps and having a gray scarred face. You say the Joker is supposed to be scary, well yeah but like another poster pointed out, he's scary after you see the kind of crazy MF he is. Whether you're entertained or sickened by that is on the viewer. If anything his clownish appearance was supposed to be disarming, not something where people gasp and children cry. This and his purple suit are trademarks of the character.

You say "He did the exact opposite with Begins and now he's doing it again by doing the exact opposite with TDK." I disagree, i'd say he's doing the same exact thing Tim Burton did. Unsatisfied with the Penguin character, Burton created a version of his own, complete with flippers or whatever instead of hands and with a constant green slime coming out of his mouth. How is this any different from Nolan taking the Joker and deforming his face and wardrobe?

Maybe instead of worrying about and comparing this to Nicholson's portrayal you should be looking at the source material. Going from that if the character's look is anything similar to these descriptions then its pretty much an outright bastardization of the character. Like i said, excitement waning. We'll see when pictures/teaser trailer debut.