Saw 4

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  • Blzer
    Resident film pundit
    • Mar 2004
    • 42517

    #136
    Re: Saw 4

    Originally posted by candymanGT
    Many critics seem to like this new direction of SAW, but so far Blzer you don't. Do you think it could be that your burned out from the franchise?
    I don't mind what direction the movies are going, but I hate the directing (Darren) of it, and I hate the fact that this didn't feel like a Saw movie... like it was supposed to be something else, but they forced it into being Saw.

    I'm definitely not burned out, though I would have appreciated just a trilogy. I suggest you watch it if other people are definitely convincing you otherwise.
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    • mgoblue
      Go Wings!
      • Jul 2002
      • 25477

      #137
      Re: Saw 4

      Just watched Saw 3 again and i'll probably check out Saw 4 tomorrow. I'm avoiding this thread because a few times I kept my eyes closed as I scrolled past spoilers, so I'll just wait until I've seen 4. I doubt I'll hate it like Blzer though, we'll see.
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      • Blzer
        Resident film pundit
        • Mar 2004
        • 42517

        #138
        Re: Saw 4

        I should clarify (and emphasize) that when I speak of my opinion, I'm only saying that this is a terrible Saw movie, and the script should have been saved to make another movie. Granted, there would have to be a lot of reworking so people don't think they're copycating Saw with "games", but it would be very possible to make this a different movie altogether.

        This could have worked, though. Get a different director, and make a different middle of the movie. I didn't mind the ending; I just wasn't shocked. But definitely get a different director.


        I doubt people will hate it like me, but I think I expected it to feel like a Saw movie. It didn't.
        Last edited by Blzer; 10-27-2007, 10:06 AM.
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        • CaptainZombie
          Brains
          • Jul 2003
          • 37851

          #139
          Re: Saw 4

          Originally posted by mgoblue
          Just watched Saw 3 again and i'll probably check out Saw 4 tomorrow. I'm avoiding this thread because a few times I kept my eyes closed as I scrolled past spoilers, so I'll just wait until I've seen 4. I doubt I'll hate it like Blzer though, we'll see.
          LOL! I closed my eyes while deleting Blzer's spoilers as I quoted him, that is too funny.
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          • ExtremeGamer
            Extra Life 11/3/18
            • Jul 2002
            • 35299

            #140
            Re: Saw 4

            Originally posted by nickb
            I didnt like it all that much, id give it a C...Id really like a spoiler thread on this movie also, because there are some things in the plot that are very unclear to me...
            Just discuss it with spoiler tags.

            No other movie gets a separate spoiler thread, Saw 4 won't either.

            When a movie comes out and if I haven't seen it yet, I know better than to visit the thread to avoid spoilers.

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            • faster
              MVP
              • Dec 2002
              • 2182

              #141
              Re: Saw 4

              *********** SPOILER DISCUSSION**************


              So for everyone that has seen this movie... are we in agreement that Saw 3 and Saw 4 actually happened at the same time?

              I think that point makes this movie that much better. There's a ton going on during it, and I really don't see that many plot holes personally. I was disappointed in Saw 3 and Saw 4 to some degree, but after thinking about it, I did really enjoy them. Any movie that makes people discuss it afterwards has to have done something right.
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              • Jimplication
                MVP
                • Aug 2004
                • 3591

                #142
                Re: Saw 4

                I'd like to note that I think the casting for Saw IV was terrible.

                There are two sets of characters (one of which was from Saw III) that look strikingly similar and when combined with a movie that jumps around in time, as well as being inherently complex, it seems like a huge blunder and is one of my primary criticisms of the film.
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                • Blzer
                  Resident film pundit
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 42517

                  #143
                  Re: Saw 4

                  Originally posted by penguit
                  *********** SPOILER DISCUSSION**************


                  So for everyone that has seen this movie... are we in agreement that Saw 3 and Saw 4 actually happened at the same time?

                  I think that point makes this movie that much better. There's a ton going on during it, and I really don't see that many plot holes personally. I was disappointed in Saw 3 and Saw 4 to some degree, but after thinking about it, I did really enjoy them. Any movie that makes people discuss it afterwards has to have done something right.
                  * * * * SPOLIERS AHOY!!! * * * *





                  At first I thought there weren't too many plot holes, but then some came to mind later:


                  - During the scene that they find Kerry (her first name is actually Allison haha didn't know that), they discuss how Amanda couldn't have lifted Kerry up in the trap because of weight difference. Is it okay if I ask how these detectives figured out Amanda was Jigsaw's apprentice? If I recall correctly, Saw III and Saw IV took place at the same time, and while investigating Troy's trap Kerry pointed out Jigsaw couldn't have done this. That night, she was killed, and some time after (probably that night or the next day) was the time they discovered her. That doesn't make sense, even Kerry didn't know until she saw Amanda pop out of the shadows.

                  - Hoffman closed and locked Agent Strahm in the room with a dead Jeff, Lynn, Jigsaw, and Amanda. He didn't kill him. We learn the autopsy scene occurs after these events, so somehow somebody found John and brought him to the morgue. What about Strahm? Where did he go? Wouldn't he rat out Hoffman? And also note that it couldn't have been too long after because the coroner says the body was still fresh. Couldn't have been a couple of weeks or anything.

                  - Why was Rigg in a game? Doesn't Jigsaw test people that have a sinful flaw in themselves? Rigg was a S.W.A.T. commander that did nothing but save lives; always tried to do the right thing, as a matter of fact. If they tested him because he was too kind to everybody, that's not a flaw. He obviously wasn't a pushover, either. Remember when he assaulted the abusive father because they wouldn't detain him without evidence? He wasn't just letting that slide. His game made sense, no doubt... but that's just not Jigsaw. He doesn't test constant do-gooders. He punished Rigg for trying to help people... sounds like Jigsaw is a hypocrite now.

                  - Not really a plot hole per se, but just plain stupidity. Rigg wasn't captured, he was sedated and put in his bathtub. Essentially, he was a free man (though his knives we taken away). How long does it take to FIND A ****ING PHONE and call the rest of his team to help him in these games that he has to play?

                  - Obviously, Hoffman wasn't captured by somebody else, because he had to fake his being tied down to the chair. So I guess that means he had to be in there before Art put Eric in the noose. Wouldn't Art be a little more curious about what's going on here? Doesn't there need to be an Eric counterweight so that the seesaw-like bottom doesn't put weight on Hoffman's side? Doesn't make any sense that Hoffman could get there before Eric or Art.

                  - Sort of like with Rigg, but plain and simply... why is Art being tested? Because John wouldn't do a project with him and told him to "get the **** out"? Not only that, but he's tested once (with another guy for, again, NO reason), and then he's put in a SECOND trap. I still don't understand why Eric wasn't released by now, either. Poor guy... he just wanted his son. He fought for so long, and the writers decide to say "**** him" and go Final Destination on us and smash the guy's head.





                  * * * * END SPOILERS * * * *








                  That's it for now. Makes me wanna puke.
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                  • mgoblue
                    Go Wings!
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 25477

                    #144
                    Re: Saw 4

                    I enjoyed it...it was kinda Saw 3.5. I didn't realize it would be based off of 3 quite as much as it was. I'm not gonna tear the plot to shreds, I just enjoyed the story they told. Stellar movie? Not at all...but enjoyable 90ish minutes? Yeah. I didn't leave there going "why did i really see this"...

                    Better than Turistas and Hostel 2, IMO.
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                    • Chief Illinimac
                      Gimme the Oscar, Friendo.
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 2365

                      #145
                      Re: Saw 4

                      How disturbing were the traps? I think Saw 3 was kind of pushing me to the brink with the "rack" trap, in terms of making me squirm, and I would naturally assume this one was more brutal. What did you guys that saw it think?
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                      • mgoblue
                        Go Wings!
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 25477

                        #146
                        Re: Saw 4

                        Originally posted by DeeForThree
                        How disturbing were the traps? I think Saw 3 was kind of pushing me to the brink with the "rack" trap, in terms of making me squirm, and I would naturally assume this one was more brutal. What did you guys that saw it think?
                        It wasn't that brutal, Saw 3 made me wince and squirm more than any other movie...This was a lot more story, with traps, but they weren't as obviously disturbing like the rack. Still gore and all, but the rack (with the noises) was just out there.
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                        • CaptainZombie
                          Brains
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 37851

                          #147
                          Re: Saw 4

                          Blzer, I went with my brother today to see this movie since I had no patience to wait another week or two. I think that you are being way too harsh in your analysis, I say that because you over analyze everything my friend from Guitar Hero Tabs all the way to creating videos of MLB 2K7/8 batting stances. LOL! I agree with you that there are plotholes in this movie, but what movie doesn't have holes in it, good or bad..........take a look at some of my explanations to some of your plotholes and maybe it might help close those holes, maybe not.

                          SAW IV was out to tell a story this time over traps, etc. The story was the origins of Jigsaw and what caused John Kramer to go nuts and why he uses the doll. SAW IV is almost like 3 movies going on at once...........

                          1-Origin of Jigsaw
                          2-SAW III storyline continues
                          3-SAW IV storyline

                          I am glad that I went to go see it and would rank this one right behind SAW as the second best in the series, with SAW II next, and then SAW III being the weakest of this franchise.

                          Earlier, you made comments that this is S.W.A.T 2 of something, but Blzer you forget that this all started with Dr. Gordon............but eventually evolved with the police getting intertwined into the story and becoming the basis. The only remnants of the original SAW in the 3 sequels is that the police are trying to catch a killer..............SAW II-IV, are looked in my eyes as a trilogy of their own compared to the original. The original, even though we are shocked at the end with Jigsaw getting up and leaving from the scene...........no storylines really continue off of that one, except that we learn in SAW II about Amanda and police emphasis that sets the story for the next 3 movies.

                          In no way do I think that SAW IV ruins the trilogy of SAW...............it only enhances it further. EG and I have been talking about how horror movies have really taken a turn for the worse the last few years where we either have excessive gore for no reason (I guess this could be looked at the new slashers by some) and the endless amount of remakes. If for a second we look past the traps of SAW franchise and put those aside, does this franchise tell a story? It does tell one helluva a story that is confusing to a degree, but is there more than many other horror franchises that became MINDLESS by the 3rd or 4th movie of the franchise.

                          My one beef that I have is that you were comparing this to Final Destination, this movie is no way the same as FD or even close to that series. You say this because of one trap, which to me still had no resemblense to FD.

                          SPOILERS.......................................... .................................................. ..........................................




                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          * * * * SPOLIERS AHOY!!! * * * *


                          At first I thought there weren't too many plot holes, but then some came to mind later:


                          - During the scene that they find Kerry (her first name is actually Allison haha didn't know that), they discuss how Amanda couldn't have lifted Kerry up in the trap because of weight difference. Is it okay if I ask how these detectives figured out Amanda was Jigsaw's apprentice? If I recall correctly, Saw III and Saw IV took place at the same time, and while investigating Troy's trap Kerry pointed out Jigsaw couldn't have done this. That night, she was killed, and some time after (probably that night or the next day) was the time they discovered her. That doesn't make sense, even Kerry didn't know until she saw Amanda pop out of the shadows.
                          With this one here, Hoffman would be the only one to know about Amanda at this point in time.....and with him being in that scene when they found Kerry, he knows more about the situation than everyone else does about her. With the comment coming from Strahm that someone had to help lift her up, Hoffman would have been the one to help her so this scene makes sense.

                          What if Hoffman used Amanda's name once he found out that she was dead? He had to obviously of known about the warehouse since the final sequences and flashbacks took place there.

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          - Hoffman closed and locked Agent Strahm in the room with a dead Jeff, Lynn, Jigsaw, and Amanda. He didn't kill him. We learn the autopsy scene occurs after these events, so somehow somebody found John and brought him to the morgue. What about Strahm? Where did he go? Wouldn't he rat out Hoffman? And also note that it couldn't have been too long after because the coroner says the body was still fresh. Couldn't have been a couple of weeks or anything.
                          Strahm never saw Hoffman, so he wouldn't of known that he was a part of this whole deal. When the door shut behind him, he never saw (no pun intended...LOL!) who closed it on him. How do we know that come SAW V, its the story of Strahm before the body of Jigsaw turns up in the morgue? The writing team will either take a different direction with SAW V or we will see the story of Strahm and what we didn't see of Jeff's..........why? We still don't know what happened to his daughter.

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          - Why was Rigg in a game? Doesn't Jigsaw test people that have a sinful flaw in themselves? Rigg was a S.W.A.T. commander that did nothing but save lives; always tried to do the right thing, as a matter of fact. If they tested him because he was too kind to everybody, that's not a flaw. He obviously wasn't a pushover, either. Remember when he assaulted the abusive father because they wouldn't detain him without evidence? He wasn't just letting that slide. His game made sense, no doubt... but that's just not Jigsaw. He doesn't test constant do-gooders. He punished Rigg for trying to help people... sounds like Jigsaw is a hypocrite now.
                          Rigg was in the game because when you think of it, he was obsessed and selfish even though he is a kind soul. When his wife asked him to go with her mother's, he chose on his own selfishness and obsession to stay behind and try to crack the case on the missing Mathews and the death of Kerry. Hoffman told him before that he has a vacation and he should be taking time off, Rigg didn't listen and he opened the door............"To Play the Game". Last but not least, Rigg was told not to go through unsecure doors more than once and what did he do, not think and just burst through the door that set off the trap on Eric Mathews to crush his head.

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          - Not really a plot hole per se, but just plain stupidity. Rigg wasn't captured, he was sedated and put in his bathtub. Essentially, he was a free man (though his knives we taken away). How long does it take to FIND A ****ING PHONE and call the rest of his team to help him in these games that he has to play?
                          Blzer, it goes back to my points of him being obsessed with capturing Jigsaw and finding Mathews. This allows him to play the game and I bet that also in his mind he might feel the threat that his wife could have been abducted even though there was no evidence that she was, but we know how the human mind operates........very wacky.

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          - Obviously, Hoffman wasn't captured by somebody else, because he had to fake his being tied down to the chair. So I guess that means he had to be in there before Art put Eric in the noose. Wouldn't Art be a little more curious about what's going on here? Doesn't there need to be an Eric counterweight so that the seesaw-like bottom doesn't put weight on Hoffman's side? Doesn't make any sense that Hoffman could get there before Eric or Art.
                          I'm just as baffled about this on how Hoffman got there, but again, if this is happening during SAW III.....................Amanda is still alive at certain points where she could have worked on setting this up.

                          Originally posted by Blzer
                          - Sort of like with Rigg, but plain and simply... why is Art being tested? Because John wouldn't do a project with him and told him to "get the **** out"? Not only that, but he's tested once (with another guy for, again, NO reason), and then he's put in a SECOND trap. I still don't understand why Eric wasn't released by now, either. Poor guy... he just wanted his son. He fought for so long, and the writers decide to say "**** him" and go Final Destination on us and smash the guy's head.
                          Art is being tested because the fact that he was the lawyer that defended 3 evil doers and they got off scott free from their actions. Between the father that abused the kid/mother that didn't say anything, the fat dude at the hotel which raped the women, and the first girl, Brenda to die at the hands of Rigg after she attacked him with the knife were 3 people that Art was defending and that to Jigsaw wasn't right that these 3 got off for their crimes/actions.


                          1-My one question is that why was Jigsaw keeping Eric captive for 6 months? Is it that because maybe Cecil got away with the crime that he committed to Jill and the police didn't do anything about it, so he was testing them one by one?

                          2-What did the letter say that Hoffman left for Amanda? Was it maybe that she was being tested this entire time.

                          3-What was Perez's test and why did the doll blow up in her face?

                          4-Rumor going around is that Jeff's daughter is actually Hoffman's daughter and that his test will begin in SAW V...........which is where we see him listening to the tape at the beginning...........which possibly makes Hoffman not be an accomplice, but part of the game.

                          5-The button that Art had said RELEASE, so if he would have pushed it on time would they have all gone home? I highly doubt it.

                          6-So this leaves me to believe that we will see Hoffman be the test in SAW V, with more of Jill, Perez presuming that she is still alive, Jeff's/Hoffman's daughter, and what about Rigg. Why would Hoffman say the story of his daughter is "A Short One" IF there was no story to be told? I see this as the setup for SAW V.

                          I also felt that some of the traps were a little bit too similar in nature, but glad they played second fiddle to the story.

                          I really enjoyed this and once we learn that SAW III and SAW IV are taking place at the same time, it made me glad to see that loose ends were getting tied up while creating some new ones. Where do we go with SAW V, I have a hunch but not too sure if I'm even correct on that.


                          SPOILERS.......................................... .................................................. ..........................................
                          Last edited by CaptainZombie; 10-28-2007, 02:11 PM.
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                          • mgoblue
                            Go Wings!
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 25477

                            #148
                            Re: Saw 4

                            I'm glad the traps weren't quite as nuts as Saw 3...I am now looking forward to Saw V (whenever that is, I heard it might be 2 years, not 1). The storyline they have going is fun to follow.
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                            • CaptainZombie
                              Brains
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 37851

                              #149
                              Re: Saw 4

                              Originally posted by mgoblue
                              I'm glad the traps weren't quite as nuts as Saw 3...I am now looking forward to Saw V (whenever that is, I heard it might be 2 years, not 1). The storyline they have going is fun to follow.
                              Is it 2 years now, I thought it was coming next Halloween time and then SAW VI in 2009.
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                              • mgoblue
                                Go Wings!
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 25477

                                #150
                                Re: Saw 4

                                Originally posted by Jigsaw
                                Is it 2 years now, I thought it was coming next Halloween time and then SAW VI in 2009.
                                I've read both....not sure if they're filming both at the same time, and it might be a little quick to get out before next halloween. It'd be stupid to skip a halloween though, I think people are starting to look for them every year.
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