****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Interesting theory. But the helicopter pilot was positive the pilot of the found crashed plane wasn't who they thought he was due to him not having a wedding band on. It looks more like a cover-up. But who knows? Everything is up in the air.

And I'm still very much interested in 'the button'. Remember Mrs.Hawking from the Desmond episode? This is when Desmond initially jumped back in time and instead of running from Penny he decided to propose. But Mrs.Hawking, who owned the jewelery store where Des was going to get a ring, knew that Desmond was 'from the future' and warned him that if he proposed he would never get to the island and if he didn't press the button everyone on the planet would die.
I hope this is something the writers come back to and don't fluff off.

Well that would go hand in hand with why I don't think the Losties were supposed to be on the island. Desmond messed up and caused the crash. The Losties have basically ended up thrashing everything that was going on on the island. I didn't expect it to lead to a chain of events that would destroy the planet. But I don't think that the plane was supposed to be there. Desmond altered the future and he shouldn't have done it.

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

I don't think so. It's confusing and I don't think we'll get it yet because every time Daniel tries to explain Jack cuts tells him to hurry up. Only Juliet was smart enough to say, "Talk slow and maybe we'll understand." But of course, it's all a device to make us wait.

Time is different. It's been hammered into our heads the past few weeks so they won't change course.

The only explanation I have is that Desmond spoke to Penny in 2004 but he wasn't speaking to Penny of the present time in the outside world. I know, it's too crazy to understand.

I still think it's Penny's boat and Penny of 2004 doesn't know she sends a boat (this is the same Penny that Charlie spoke to).

I was actually thumbing around with this too.
I understand exactly what you mean. Desmond called 2004 Penny, but 2008 Penny is the one looking for the boat.
It's why the show has been able to twice reference the Sox winning the world series. The first time they mentioned the 2004 Sox that came back from an 0-3 deficit to the Yanks.
But the 2nd time they didn't specify if it was the 2007 Sox.

And I can't remember who questioned Daniel's 'weirdness', but this is how that actor works. Watch Rescue Dawn with Christian Bale. "Daniel" is in that movie too and he acts the exact same way. It kind of annoys me. In fact, he's getting dangerously close to Hurely annoying. If the writers ever write a scene with just those two in it, my head might explode.

Daniel: The...time...see, well, the time..(moves hands around like Jack Sparrow)..
Hurley: Dude!
Daniel: yes,...correct...dude, but you know...I was... (more hand waving)
Hurley: Dude!
Daniel: one time...the island...radiation...uh...
Hurley: Dude! (sweats)
Daniel: we need....tell them...space, time, and uh...
Hurley: Dude! (becomes fatter)

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Well that would go hand in hand with why I don't think the Losties were supposed to be on the island. Desmond messed up and caused the crash. The Losties have basically ended up thrashing everything that was going on on the island. I didn't expect it to lead to a chain of events that would destroy the planet. But I don't think that the plane was supposed to be there. Desmond altered the future and he shouldn't have done it.

But that Mrs.Hawking sure made it sound like he was supposed to be on the island to push the button.

Dismissing his Island experience as a dream, Desmond resumes his daily life and decides to buy a ring to propose to Penny. However, when he makes this decision, Ms. Hawking, the jewelry store clerk, reveals that she is aware of the original timeline as well, and knows that Desmond's future will involve going to the Island and pushing the button in the Swan hatch. She imparts some of her understanding about how the universe "course-corrects" to prevent people from straying too far from their fate.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond

After turning the failsafe key in the future, Desmond seems to reenter his life on the day of his interview with Widmore. He relives the same day, but decides this time to propose to Penelope instead of walking away. When he goes into the jewelry shop, the seller, Ms. Hawking, who knows he is reliving this day, convinces him not to propose to Penny, because his not proposing is what will lead him to the Island-- which will lead him to pushing the button at the Swan Station for almost three years. According to Ms. Hawking, if he does not push that button, every single person on the planet will die. ("Flashes Before Your Eyes")

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Penelope_Widmore

I'm not dismissing your theories. Just trying to figure some stuff out on my own.

[Pared]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Okay, now I'm really confused. I was on board with the whole 'island time' vs 'real time'. But now it doesn't make sense.
Oceanic 815 crashed on September 22nd 2004. And Desmond called Penny last night on December 24, 2004. That means that 90 days HAS passed in the real world, just like the island.
Now I'm even more confused.

Damn it... those were the dates I was trying to find earlier. Thanks for the info.

It certainly is a head scratcher.

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Yankeepride, I thought I had it, but now I'm still confused.

If 2004 Desmond did call 2004 Penny, but it's really 2008 Penny that Charlie spoke to, then why would the ship, that came from present time, have a 2004 calendar?
Was that planted there so the crew knew what 'date' they would be traveling to?

And if so, then how come Desmond was able to call 2004 Penny (or Island time Penny) but Charlie was able to speak with present day, 2008, Penny?

Oy-vay, my head's getting fatter than Hurley's.

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Damn it... those were the dates I was trying to find earlier. Thanks for the info.

It certainly is a head scratcher.

I know! I've already used my brain far more than I like to on a Friday. Damn you Lost writers!

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

But that Mrs.Hawking sure made it sound like he was supposed to be on the island to push the button.

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Penelope_Widmore

I'm not dismissing your theories. Just trying to figure some stuff out on my own.

You are not dismissing my theories. Desmond was on the island and had to push the button, but he failed. Remember the hiccup in the system at the precise time the Losties plane was flying over. It has certainly set off an irrrepairable chain of events on the island and now you have Sayid working as an Assassin for Ben. Must be pretty important forces at work for Sayid to go back into being a killer. Its like everything is going to start unwinding while Ben tries to remain in control of the situation.

[ehh]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

It's why the show has been able to twice reference the Sox winning the world series. The first time they mentioned the 2004 Sox that came back from an 0-3 deficit to the Yanks.
But the 2nd time they didn't specify if it was the 2007 Sox.

The producers said the pilot and Jack were talking about the 2004 Red Sox still, not 2007, because that episode was filmed before Boston even won this year's WS.

[CMH]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Yankeepride, I thought I had it, but now I'm still confused.

If 2004 Desmond did call 2004 Penny, but it's really 2008 Penny that Charlie spoke to, then why would the ship, that came from present time, have a 2004 calendar?
Was that planted there so the crew knew what 'date' they would be traveling to?

And if so, then how come Desmond was able to call 2004 Penny (or Island time Penny) but Charlie was able to speak with present day, 2008, Penny?

Oy-vay, my head's getting fatter than Hurley's.

No, I think Charlie spoke to 2004 Penny.

(Also for some reason I just got this feeling that Penny is dead. Wouldn't that mess everything up for Desmond? Man.)

As for the calendar, that confuses me too. I have two theories.

1. They are also stuck in the Island time frame. Could explain the whole, "We were waiting and haven't gotten a response to do something," problem.

2. They put up the calendar to remind themselves what time it is on the Island. Almost like a reference point. It's possible that Minkowski might have put it up.

I don't know...


My actual question with Minkowski is why he knew that he was jumping through time - and was also aware of what he was doing prior to jumping time - but Desmond had no idea.

Why the difference in understanding?

[Pared]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

1. They are also stuck in the Island time frame. Could explain the whole, "We were waiting and haven't gotten a response to do something," problem.

I was just thinking about this but you beat me to it.

Isn't Penny wondering what the heck they're talking about when they ask her about a boat??

Isn't it possible they're also stuck in a time shift of their own?

[fistofrage]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Yankeepride, I thought I had it, but now I'm still confused.

If 2004 Desmond did call 2004 Penny, but it's really 2008 Penny that Charlie spoke to, then why would the ship, that came from present time, have a 2004 calendar?
Was that planted there so the crew knew what 'date' they would be traveling to?

And if so, then how come Desmond was able to call 2004 Penny (or Island time Penny) but Charlie was able to speak with present day, 2008, Penny?

Oy-vay, my head's getting fatter than Hurley's.

Could it be because Faraday and company went looking for the island in 2004. It could be present day now, but that group somehow is back in 2004 looking for them. If Miles really was referencing the time code to Ben when he mentioned the 3.2 million, then that would imply that Miles was telling Ben where to be in one weeks time as if he knew the results of the future.

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Okay, I'm resigned to believe that time is much different on the island. (obviously).

But it should have been obvious before this episode. It would explain how Aaron grew up so fast as did Walt. I suspect that once you're off the island your body catches up to the age it should be.

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

No, I think Charlie spoke to 2004 Penny.

(Also for some reason I just got this feeling that Penny is dead. Wouldn't that mess everything up for Desmond? Man.)

As for the calendar, that confuses me too. I have two theories.

1. They are also stuck in the Island time frame. Could explain the whole, "We were waiting and haven't gotten a response to do something," problem.

2. They put up the calendar to remind themselves what time it is on the Island. Almost like a reference point. It's possible that Minkowski might have put it up.

I don't know...


My actual question with Minkowski is why he knew that he was jumping through time - and was also aware of what he was doing prior to jumping time - but Desmond had no idea.

Why the difference in understanding?

That brings up another question. When did Minkowski get exposed to radiation and/or magnetic electricity? Didn't Daniel elude to this being a big factor in making these 'jumps'?

[Money99]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Could it be because Faraday and company went looking for the island in 2004. It could be present day now, but that group somehow is back in 2004 looking for them. If Miles really was referencing the time code to Ben when he mentioned the 3.2 million, then that would imply that Miles was telling Ben where to be in one weeks time as if he knew the results of the future.

That's a good point bringing up the $3.2 million reference. It's an odd number to request.

[ehh]

Re: ****Official LOST Season 4 Discussion (Contains Spoilers)**

Right now it seems like there are alot of holes in last night's episode. Everything from what Money just said to the "needing something important to be your constant" and Faraday writes in his notebook that Desmond is his constant. Lil man-crush going on?

My brain hurts too much to analyze this show after last night's episode.