The Wire-Season 5

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

The Greeks and Prop Joe are somewhat important, but the most important seasons leading up to 5 are 4 and 3.

The only things up until now that have been affected by season 2 are *Season 2/3 spoilers for Aggie*

Spoiler

1. Stringer getting killed (not all that relevant anymore)
2. Sergei being locked up
3. The creation of the coop (might have even been episode one of season 3)

Overall, the port storyline was completely irrelevant to the later seasons, as Prop Joe is still buying from the Greeks. The street story only really mattered in the last 2-3 episodes with the Brother, Stringer, and Joe triangle over the towers.

If he watched season 4, the whole "WHOMG Prop Joe buys from Vondas" scene would obviously not be all that big of a deal.

Obviously you don't want to skip anything, but from the standpoint of enjoying season 5, seasons 1 and 2 are mostly irrelevant. Season 3 introduces Marlo, Chris, Snoop, Slim, Cutty, Bunnie (well, he's in one scene in season 2), Justin, the entire political storyline, the Western police who work for Carver, far expands the Omar/Butchie relationship, deepens the Davis storyline, and concludes the fall of the Barksdales.

yea "true dat" (haha learned that from this show)..good points imo.

he'll obviously enjoy the show much more if he's seen the entire season. There will be quite a few things he'll miss out on. It would be like skipping through chapters in a great novel.

Plus it has Bernard, the two goofy kids who hang with Cutty, and the most underrated character in the entire series:

The fat man in the Barksdale safe house who claims all the guns in the building are his. Then one of the police picks up a hand grenade and he shrugs and tilts his head.

the characters in this show are some of the best ever...even some of the ones without big roles.

that scene with the fat man was funny as hell

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Spoiler

I disagree. If my memory serves me correctly, he was on probation and got caught up with his entire muscle crew trying to ride on Marlo. The place/warehouse got raided, as they were getting set up to make their way to the rim shop..the cops bust in and he was sent to jail (shortly after being released) yet again.

Spoiler

good point imo. If he wouldnt have been in a war with Marlo, Avon would have been able to be more careful. He wouldnt have been caught with that arsenal, because they wouldnt have needed it.

but the major crimes unit leaning on him constantly is what broke down his organization in the first place and made him short handed and lacking of resources in his power struggle with Marlo. The major crimes unit got to just about everyone in the organization, including Stringer. Avon's trouble with the law made him change up everything and caused him to be on probation in the first place. The major crimes unit weakened the Barksdale organization, which certainly helped in the Marlo's crew rise.

i guess we are both right..it was both the major crimes unit AND the Marlo crew that put him in Jessup.

Im sure Avon still looks at Marlo as the enemy, but that wont stop Avon from hustling him or setting himself up for later. I imagine Avon will be getting out in a couple of years. It's probably "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" temporary type of thing. It's a smart move by Avon to capitalize on the situation. It benefits Avon to allign with Marlo for now. They can pick up where they left off later. It's all in the game

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Spoiler

I disagree. If my memory serves me correctly, he was on probation and got caught up with his entire muscle crew trying to ride on Marlo. The place/warehouse got raided, as they were getting set up to make their way to the rim shop..the cops bust in and he was sent to jail (shortly after being released) yet again.

Spoiler

Avon is locked up because his feuding with Marlo was ****ing up the other west side dealers and Stringer was going to be cut out of the coop. The only reason he was caught is because Stringer called Colvin and told him where the safe house was. At the time, the MCU was going to shift more to Marlo because of the Stringer murder.

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Spoiler

good point imo. If he wouldnt have been in a war with Marlo, he would have been able to be more careful. He wouldnt have been caught with that arsenal, because they wouldnt have needed it.

but the major crimes unit leaning on him constantly is what broke down his organization in the first place and made him short handed and lacking of resources in his power struggle with Marlo. The major crimes unit got to just about everyone in the organization, including Stringer. Avon's trouble with the law made him change up everything and caused him to be on probation in the first place.

i guess we are both right..it was both the major crimes unit AND the Marlo crew that put him in Jessup.

Spoiler

None of them really put Avon in Jessup. Throughout the whole series, snitching took down the Barksdales. It got Bird and Weebay locked up, allowed them to bug Orlando's which locked up Avon, and got Avon and all the Barksdale's locked up. Realistically, the MCU didn't do anything to the Barksdales. Omar killed Stink and Stringer and got Bird locked up, and Stringer, D, and Charline got the rest.

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Spoiler

None of them really put Avon in Jessup. Throughout the whole series, snitching took down the Barksdales. It got Bird and Weebay locked up, allowed them to bug Orlando's which locked up Avon, and got Avon and all the Barksdale's locked up. Realistically, the MCU didn't do anything to the Barksdales. Omar killed Stink and Stringer and got Bird locked up, and Stringer, D, and Charline got the rest.

yea there were a lot of factors. Many of them were internal. The organization started crumbling from the inside.

but the Barksdale organization would still be intact if not for the MCU. McNulty's crew had a lot to do with taking Avon and Stringer down...and if they get back up and running they are going to take down Marlo's crew too (of course if McNulty doesnt lose his damn mind even more than he already has)

[Mr.Burns]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

i guess we are both right..it was both the major crimes unit AND the Marlo crew that put him in Jessup.

Looking at it from Avon's perspective is the reason why I said I disagree. Of course the cops are the reason for the downfall of every drug lord, Avon is no different, but I doubt Avon is placing all the blame on the MCU.

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Looking at it from Avon's perspective is the reason why I said I disagree. Of course the cops are the reason for the downfall of every drug lord, Avon is no different, but I doubt Avon is placing all the blame on the MCU.

yea good point. Your probably right

Avon doesnt like all that money Marlo is making. It used to be his...I actually hope Avon ends up on top again and Marlo goes down

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

but the Barksdale organization would still be intact if not for the MCU. McNulty's crew had a lot to do with taking Avon and Stringer down...and if they get back up and running they are going to take down Marlo's crew too (of course if McNulty doesnt lose his damn mind even more than he already has)

The actual downfall of the Barksdales had nothing to do with MCU. They locked up Weebay, Bird, Savino, and Avon, but by episode 11 of season 3, they were making more money and had far more soldiers than in episode 1 of season 1. The MCU really did nothing in season 3. The only people they had on the phone were Bodie and Sham (neither of whom would have been imprisoned), and possibly a charge on String that Levy would have torn apart.

If Stringer wouldn't have flipped on Avon, Marlo's crew would have been killed and the MCU would be right back at square one. They'd have no wires up, no charges, and all the paper trails would have led back to a dead man.

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

The actual downfall of the Barksdales had nothing to do with MCU. They locked up Weebay, Bird, Savino, and Avon, but by episode 11 of season 3, they were making more money and had far more soldiers than in episode 1 of season 1. The MCU really did nothing in season 3. The only people they had on the phone were Bodie and Sham (neither of whom would have been imprisoned), and possibly a charge on String that Levy would have torn apart.

If Stringer wouldn't have flipped on Avon, Marlo's crew would have been killed and the MCU would be right back at square one. They'd have no wires up, no charges, and all the paper trails would have led back to a dead man.

Spoiler

The entire organization had to change the way they did things because of all of the heat they were under. and the MCU was very responsible in breaking Avon and Stringer apart. They busted Avon...and the MCU was very responsible for messing up Stringer, not allowing him room to do anything, and flipping him.

They were mainly responsible for throwing Avon in jail both times. If Avon wouldnt have been thrown in jail the first time (by the MCU), then Stringer wouldnt have become so independent. Stringer probably would have gone a different direction anyway, but it would have been different. He probably wouldnt have felt the need to flip.

Yes true, a lot of internal factors led to a snowball affect and the downfall of the organization from the inside. ..but imo, no MCU = and the Barksdale crew would probably still be the dynasty ...No MCU, and the Barksdales probably would have been able to eliminate the Marlo crew imo.

but we can agree to disagree.

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

Spoiler

that's my point though. The entire organization had to change the way they did things because of all of the heat they were under. and the MCU was very responsible in breaking Avon and Stringer apart. The MCU was very responsible for messing up Stringer, not allowing him room to do anything, and flipping him. They were also mainly responsible for throwing Avon in jail both times.

The MCU didn't have anything to do with any of those things. They didn't force change, the Barksdales switched to the burners inbetween seasons 2 and 3, and the MCU wasn't even interested in them from the Avon arrest in the second to last episode of season 1 until episode 6 or 7 when the Avon/Marlo war starts.

Avon and Stringer broke apart because Stringer didn't want the war because of the coop. If anything, the one dealer in the coop had it much worse than the Barksdales when they kept raiding his stash houses. Then they really split when Stringer admitted to killing D. The MCU had nothing to do with that.

The MCU never "flipped" Stringer. He needed to get rid of Avon and called up Colvin because of Hamsterdam and they probably knew each other from way back (the Weebay/Colvin scene in the season 4 finale). In fact, nobody from the MCU even knew about that until after Stringer was dead.

The MCU knew nothing about Avon hiding out. The only people they had anything on were Sham, Bodie, and Stringer, two of which were entrapment and the other was dead. The only people they actually could have made a case against was Bernard.

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

The MCU didn't have anything to do with any of those things. They didn't force change, the Barksdales switched to the burners inbetween seasons 2 and 3, and the MCU wasn't even interested in them from the Avon arrest in the second to last episode of season 1 until episode 6 or 7 when the Avon/Marlo war starts.

Avon and Stringer broke apart because Stringer didn't want the war because of the coop. If anything, the one dealer in the coop had it much worse than the Barksdales when they kept raiding his stash houses. Then they really split when Stringer admitted to killing D. The MCU had nothing to do with that.

The MCU never "flipped" Stringer. He needed to get rid of Avon and called up Colvin because of Hamsterdam and they probably knew each other from way back (the Weebay/Colvin scene in the season 4 finale). In fact, nobody from the MCU even knew about that until after Stringer was dead.

The MCU knew nothing about Avon hiding out. The only people they had anything on were Sham, Bodie, and Stringer, two of which were entrapment and the other was dead. The only people they actually could have made a case against was Bernard.

good points

Spoiler

but the MCU was mainly responsible for throwing Avon in jail...and that is what started the chain of events between Avon and Stringer. Stringer was going to go in a different direction anyway, but he probably wouldnt have felt the need to flip if he hadnt gotten so independent with the organization while Avon was in jail the first time.

before Avon got busted, the Barksdales did things pretty much the way they wanted...until they started getting heat from the MCU. Yes, they started self destructing from the inside even without the MCU. They were probably going to crack eventually anyway.. but even more pressure was applied and the Barksdales cracked faster than they were going to originally imo.

MCU also got to Omar somewhat, Omar cooperated because of his hate for the Barksdales, and that caused some big problems for Avon and Stringer.

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

good points

Spoiler

but the MCU was mainly responsible for throwing Avon in jail the first time...and that is what started the chain of events between Avon and Stringer. Stringer was going to go in a different direction anyway, but he probably wouldnt have felt the need to flip if he hadnt gotten so independent with the organization while Avon was in jail the first time.

before Avon got busted, the Barksdales did things pretty much the way they wanted until they got that heat from the MCU. Yes, they started self destructing from the inside, but pressure was applied and the Barksdales cracked faster than they already were.

MCU also got to Omar, and that caused some big problems for Avon and Stringer.

I agree they had a lot to do with it in season 1, but season 3 would have gone exactly the same regardless of the MCU.

Well, aside from my boy Bernard.

[ZB9]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

I agree they had a lot to do with it in season 1, but season 3 would have gone exactly the same regardless of the MCU.

Spoiler

The things that happened in season three happened the way they did because of what happened in season one. Change what happened in season one, and it would have been COMPLETELY different in later seasons.

If Avon wouldnt have gone to jail, the chain of events between Stringer and Avon probably wouldnt have happened the way they did.

no MCU = and Avon would probably still be running westside imo.

[Cebby]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

And speaking of Bernard, The Wire needs to have a mini-series showing the minor characters. Not the mid-majors characters like Slim, Poot, and Cheese, but the "oh that guy" characters.

I'm thinking a 5 part series:

Episode one: Bernard, the fat guy with the hand grenade, and Country (the old man)

Episode two: The raggedyassed guys Cutty was with. You know, the "I think I hit him" guy and the other dude.

Episode three: Monk, Spider, and O-dog

Episode four: Ronnie Moe and Puddin. Sure, we've never seen them, but they still managed to get talked about 5-10 times a season

Episode five: Savino and Bird. I liked them, and I'd like to see Bird give Omar what he deserved.

[KG]

Re: The Wire-Season 5

And speaking of Bernard, The Wire needs to have a mini-series showing the minor characters. Not the mid-majors characters like Slim, Poot, and Cheese, but the "oh that guy" characters.

I'm thinking a 5 part series:

Episode one: Bernard, the fat guy with the hand grenade, and Country (the old man)

Episode two: The raggedyassed guys Cutty was with. You know, the "I think I hit him" guy and the other dude.

Episode three: Monk, Spider, and O-dog

Episode four: Ronnie Moe and Puddin. Sure, we've never seen them, but they still managed to get talked about 5-10 times a season

Episode five: Savino and Bird. I liked them, and I'd like to see Bird give Omar what he deserved.

shyt...i wouldnt mind seeing what happened to Cutty or Weebay's kid...

any of yall ever seen that Magellan commercial Cutty was in with the car accident?

"are u gellin?"

i used to laugh like hell when I would see that