The Dark Knight Rises

[weeeeeeez]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Hype has nothing to do with it, and if you read the link I posted a couple times throughout this thread, the ended is very easily explained.

To be clear I understood the ending and wasn't confused by anything if that's what I made you think. I'm talking about

Spoiler

I'm perfectly fine with Blake becoming the new Batman but keeping Wayne alive essentially wasted that powerful scene by Alfred which I thought should have been the ending scene.

But like you said just a personal opinion.

[DickDalewood]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

To be clear I understood the ending and wasn't confused by anything if that's what I made you think. I'm talking about

Spoiler

I'm perfectly fine with Blake becoming the new Batman but keeping Wayne alive essentially wasted that powerful scene by Alfred which I thought should have been the ending scene.

But like you said just a personal opinion.

I liked it, since it tied some other stuff together as well, but yah, personal opinon.

And I hate grammatical errors, so thankfully you bolding my sentence pointed out mine so I could fix it, lol.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

He would be at the Asylum and not Blackgate.

Spoiler

I took that to be an "additional" scene where he's letting the "crazies out" of Arkham to build up his army, but left the Joker in there because he's too much of a diva.

Was Crane taken to Arkham in TDK or is it not said?

[weeeeeeez]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

I took that to be an "additional" scene where he's letting the "crazies out" of Arkham to build up his army, but left the Joker in there because he's too much of a diva.

Was Crane taken to Arkham in TDK or is it not said?

Wasn't said.

[Altimus]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Wasn't said... but yeah, Joker is always a wild card for both sides.

[Cutter15]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Wasn't said... but yeah, Joker is always a wild card for both sides.

Nice word play

[TheMatrix31]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

My favorite part of the movie can't really be talked about on OS, so it's tough for me to give as much positive analysis here as I want to.

[jmood88]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

This was a good point that I hadn't even thought about:

Spoiler

Another major issue is revealed in the film’s last few minutes, when Batman opens fire on the truck transporting the bomb, directly killing its driver, who’s apparently riddled with bullets, and indirectly killing Talia Al Ghul when the truck crashes onto the road below. The moment passes without comment by any of the characters, but it’s one that can’t be understated, because hey: Batman doesn’t kill people. That is one of the core tenets of the character, established in his earliest incarnations. He does not kill, even when killing would ultimately save lives. That’s something that has been belabored across the entire history of the character, especially in his dealings with the Joker, even in The Dark Knight. The Joker stands in the middle of the road after his truck crashes, fervently hoping that Batman will kill him with the Bat Pod, because he knows that doing so will be his ultimate victory: he will have shown that Batman, in the end, might have different goals than the Joker but is ultimately just as willing to kill to achieve those goals. Batman’s refusal to do so is tortured, but ultimately intrinsic to the character. The theme has been built upon across the entirety of the Batman mythology: he is willing to hurt people, but in the end he only incapacitates, never kills.

That’s not just part of Batman’s character, that is the character. It’s what separates him from the insane villains he fights. It’s a line he doesn’t cross, and it’s why he’s so angry with Harvey Dent after he captures him in the sewers threatening one of Joker’s henchmen in The Dark Knight: killing is not an option, even if doing so might be a shortcut towards your ultimate goal. If Batman were a Greek tragedy, this would perhaps be the character’s hamartia, a noble ideal that sometimes manages to cause grevious injury to all those around him; in some of the comics, Batman is tormented by the thought that he would, in the end, save hundreds of lives if he just had the willingness to end Joker’s life. Would Batman, in the end, kill two people to save Gotham? It’s a valid question, and a treatment of it would make for a rich film; indeed, part of the tragedy of The Dark Knight was that Batman allowed Gotham to think that he was capable of murder because that very idea allowed Gotham to save itself. There’s a line between perception and reality, though, of course, and for TDKR to let Batman ignore that line so easily, without any sort of reflection on anyone’s part (moments after Catwoman underlines and restates his no-guns policy after killing Bane, no less!) is an immense flaw in the film in my eyes.

[thaima1shu]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

This was a good point that I hadn't even thought about:

Spoiler

Another major issue is revealed in the film’s last few minutes, when Batman opens fire on the truck transporting the bomb, directly killing its driver, who’s apparently riddled with bullets, and indirectly killing Talia Al Ghul when the truck crashes onto the road below. The moment passes without comment by any of the characters, but it’s one that can’t be understated, because hey: Batman doesn’t kill people. That is one of the core tenets of the character, established in his earliest incarnations. He does not kill, even when killing would ultimately save lives. That’s something that has been belabored across the entire history of the character, especially in his dealings with the Joker, even in The Dark Knight. The Joker stands in the middle of the road after his truck crashes, fervently hoping that Batman will kill him with the Bat Pod, because he knows that doing so will be his ultimate victory: he will have shown that Batman, in the end, might have different goals than the Joker but is ultimately just as willing to kill to achieve those goals. Batman’s refusal to do so is tortured, but ultimately intrinsic to the character. The theme has been built upon across the entirety of the Batman mythology: he is willing to hurt people, but in the end he only incapacitates, never kills.

That’s not just part of Batman’s character, that is the character. It’s what separates him from the insane villains he fights. It’s a line he doesn’t cross, and it’s why he’s so angry with Harvey Dent after he captures him in the sewers threatening one of Joker’s henchmen in The Dark Knight: killing is not an option, even if doing so might be a shortcut towards your ultimate goal. If Batman were a Greek tragedy, this would perhaps be the character’s hamartia, a noble ideal that sometimes manages to cause grevious injury to all those around him; in some of the comics, Batman is tormented by the thought that he would, in the end, save hundreds of lives if he just had the willingness to end Joker’s life. Would Batman, in the end, kill two people to save Gotham? It’s a valid question, and a treatment of it would make for a rich film; indeed, part of the tragedy of The Dark Knight was that Batman allowed Gotham to think that he was capable of murder because that very idea allowed Gotham to save itself. There’s a line between perception and reality, though, of course, and for TDKR to let Batman ignore that line so easily, without any sort of reflection on anyone’s part (moments after Catwoman underlines and restates his no-guns policy after killing Bane, no less!) is an immense flaw in the film in my eyes.

Spoiler

Thing is, Batman has killed people even before TDKR though. Even in the very first one, in Batman Begins he kills Ra's Al Ghul by letting him die as the train crashes. I feel like there was another instance or two where I thought he must've killed someone in TDK, but I can't seem to think of it off the top of my head. Maybe I'm wrong.

[jmood88]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

Thing is, Batman has killed people even before TDKR though. Even in the very first one, in Batman Begins he kills Ra's Al Ghul by letting him die as the train crashes. I feel like there was another instance or two where I thought he must've killed someone in TDK, but I can't seem to think of it off the top of my head. Maybe I'm wrong.

Spoiler

Letting someone die isn't the same as actively killing them. I don't remember the scene where Ra's died though so I'll have to watch that again. As far as the Dark Knight, he didn't kill anyone.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

Thing is, Batman has killed people even before TDKR though. Even in the very first one, in Batman Begins he kills Ra's Al Ghul by letting him die as the train crashes. I feel like there was another instance or two where I thought he must've killed someone in TDK, but I can't seem to think of it off the top of my head. Maybe I'm wrong.

Spoiler

No, Batman does not kill people.

But like he said, he didn't have to save Ra's either.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

Yeah, I touched on that a little bit on my Blzer-like impressions/analysis post when I first saw it.

There's a ton of cars with roofs caved in that can be attributed to Bats which includes both goon cars and police vehicles in TDK. I pretty much consider at least half of them as dead.

He tried taking out the League of Shadows in the first 20 minutes of Begins. He basically sets up the train to be an elaborate execution device for Ra's.

[thaima1shu]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Spoiler

In TDK, in the underground chase scene, Batman HAD to have killed the driver of the garbage truck thing right? When the Batmobile runs right in front/underneath it and crushes it against the ceiling? The driver had to have died there.

[Blzer]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Just saw it again a second time, this time in a regular theater.

Dialogue-wise, what a difference. I could literally hear every word in the film this time. If you see it in IMAX, be forewarned that a lot of dialogue might fly over your head.

As much as I loved it the first time, I loved it even more the second time.

Spoiler

The only difference was that I felt the pacing of the first hour to be a lot better, and it probably had a lot to do with no shifting AR. I think a lot of that gave the film a little more high adrenaline the first time through. I still think parts could have been better handled there, but for the most part it was a great beginning for the film.

The dragging part for me, this time, were the Gotham scenes between Bruce being thrown into the Pit and Bruce coming back from there. This includes the football scene, and I probably wouldn't have felt that way had the stadium been filled. It does sadden me there wasn't a way they couldn't have made that place at least "look" near 100% capacity. It kind of takes you out of the scene.

Again, I don't think I liked the acting in a single side character, save the prisoner with Wayne in the Pit. Foley had a good story, but he didn't act well. Daggett was a nice "villain" like Falcone or Lau in the first two films, but I simply think the wrong actor was chosen in general. The guy running the orphanage or whatever had worse execution of lines than the guy in BB reminding us that the train was heading toward Wayne Tower. Bane's driver (and constantly seen throughout the film) had potential to do a little more than give people a cold stare and pretend like he had more chilling motivations than he really did, so that was just a waste of talent. Nolan just can't seem to cast right in this regard. The main-billed actors were all great, of course.

Being able to hear all of Bane made me love him so much more. This movie just isn't like TDK, so it's tough to compare to it. TDK is the more established film IMO, but this hits a better Bruce Wayne story in general, which is good to close out the trilogy, and which really drives most of the film.

Time to read the novel!

[thaima1shu]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

If anyone is interested, Kevin Smiths 'Smodcast' podcast has a real fun, thorough breakdown of the movie. I was laughing at not only Smiths takes on the film, but how he described the film to his partner Scott Mosier with such enthusiasm that he impersonated the voices, particularly Batman and Bane. It is the most recent podcast put out by him, and is around and hour and 30 minutes. Highly entertaining.

Of course as he mentions early on, it is spoilers galore for the TDKR. And technically, it is the second part of a breakdown of the film. Part one is available on his latest 'Fatman on Batman' podcast. However the first part is a more general discussion of not only TDKR, but Batman in general. Part two is really good as he quasi-narrates the film to Mosier.

Just got done listening to this whole thing. REALLY entertaining, and he pretty much captured how I felt about the whole thing very well. Kevin Smith is hilarious and does a great job of really going through a lot of the movie with his opinions. Great stuff, definitely check it out.

http://smodcast.com/episodes/the-dark-knight-redux/