Re: The Dark Knight Rises
This was a good point that I hadn't even thought about:
Spoiler
Another major issue is revealed in the film’s last few minutes, when Batman opens fire on the truck transporting the bomb, directly killing its driver, who’s apparently riddled with bullets, and indirectly killing Talia Al Ghul when the truck crashes onto the road below. The moment passes without comment by any of the characters, but it’s one that can’t be understated, because hey: Batman doesn’t kill people. That is one of the core tenets of the character, established in his earliest incarnations. He does not kill, even when killing would ultimately save lives. That’s something that has been belabored across the entire history of the character, especially in his dealings with the Joker, even in The Dark Knight. The Joker stands in the middle of the road after his truck crashes, fervently hoping that Batman will kill him with the Bat Pod, because he knows that doing so will be his ultimate victory: he will have shown that Batman, in the end, might have different goals than the Joker but is ultimately just as willing to kill to achieve those goals. Batman’s refusal to do so is tortured, but ultimately intrinsic to the character. The theme has been built upon across the entirety of the Batman mythology: he is willing to hurt people, but in the end he only incapacitates, never kills.
That’s not just part of Batman’s character, that is the character. It’s what separates him from the insane villains he fights. It’s a line he doesn’t cross, and it’s why he’s so angry with Harvey Dent after he captures him in the sewers threatening one of Joker’s henchmen in The Dark Knight: killing is not an option, even if doing so might be a shortcut towards your ultimate goal. If Batman were a Greek tragedy, this would perhaps be the character’s hamartia, a noble ideal that sometimes manages to cause grevious injury to all those around him; in some of the comics, Batman is tormented by the thought that he would, in the end, save hundreds of lives if he just had the willingness to end Joker’s life. Would Batman, in the end, kill two people to save Gotham? It’s a valid question, and a treatment of it would make for a rich film; indeed, part of the tragedy of The Dark Knight was that Batman allowed Gotham to think that he was capable of murder because that very idea allowed Gotham to save itself. There’s a line between perception and reality, though, of course, and for TDKR to let Batman ignore that line so easily, without any sort of reflection on anyone’s part (moments after Catwoman underlines and restates his no-guns policy after killing Bane, no less!) is an immense flaw in the film in my eyes.
That’s not just part of Batman’s character, that is the character. It’s what separates him from the insane villains he fights. It’s a line he doesn’t cross, and it’s why he’s so angry with Harvey Dent after he captures him in the sewers threatening one of Joker’s henchmen in The Dark Knight: killing is not an option, even if doing so might be a shortcut towards your ultimate goal. If Batman were a Greek tragedy, this would perhaps be the character’s hamartia, a noble ideal that sometimes manages to cause grevious injury to all those around him; in some of the comics, Batman is tormented by the thought that he would, in the end, save hundreds of lives if he just had the willingness to end Joker’s life. Would Batman, in the end, kill two people to save Gotham? It’s a valid question, and a treatment of it would make for a rich film; indeed, part of the tragedy of The Dark Knight was that Batman allowed Gotham to think that he was capable of murder because that very idea allowed Gotham to save itself. There’s a line between perception and reality, though, of course, and for TDKR to let Batman ignore that line so easily, without any sort of reflection on anyone’s part (moments after Catwoman underlines and restates his no-guns policy after killing Bane, no less!) is an immense flaw in the film in my eyes.
Spoiler
Batman killed Harvey Dent.
I think the difference between what he preaches and the actions he has pulled is that he will not directly murder someone which doesn't accomplish more than what he could do disabling them. For instance, it was necessary to thrust Dent away from Gordon's son in order to save him. The fact that he died in the process was not necessarily an active thought of Batman's while he had a larger priority at hand. When The Joker wanted Batman to run him over, him following through would have violated his rule. Not only did Batman have multiple other ways to "disable him," but The Joker didn't pose an immediate threat on the streets at the time, either.
When Batman was shooting at the truck, he was making no attempt to kill Miranda or the driver. He was simply trying to stop them. The fact that they died from his hand as he was trying to accomplish the mission of re-routing the truck was a necessary sacrifice for Batman. Even policemen and policewomen go by the same rule of avoiding/minimizing casualties at all costs, but it simply doesn't happen that way all the time.
I think the difference between what he preaches and the actions he has pulled is that he will not directly murder someone which doesn't accomplish more than what he could do disabling them. For instance, it was necessary to thrust Dent away from Gordon's son in order to save him. The fact that he died in the process was not necessarily an active thought of Batman's while he had a larger priority at hand. When The Joker wanted Batman to run him over, him following through would have violated his rule. Not only did Batman have multiple other ways to "disable him," but The Joker didn't pose an immediate threat on the streets at the time, either.
When Batman was shooting at the truck, he was making no attempt to kill Miranda or the driver. He was simply trying to stop them. The fact that they died from his hand as he was trying to accomplish the mission of re-routing the truck was a necessary sacrifice for Batman. Even policemen and policewomen go by the same rule of avoiding/minimizing casualties at all costs, but it simply doesn't happen that way all the time.
Bane comes in really close second, but by far Hathaway was my favorite actor/tress in this film.
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