Michael Jackson has passed away

[Po Pimp]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

I don't see the controversy surrounding MJ to die off anytime soon. He will always be viewed as eccentric or strange depending on your point of view.

I think his music will outshine the other stuff in the long run. I don't see anyone breaking Thriller's record sales, and his music was just that good. People remember Elvis as an icon for his music and movies and not for falling off, getting fat and dying of a pain killer addiction. I didn't even know about Ray Charles' heroin addiction until I saw the movie "Ray."

True enough the media gives you exposure, but they take more joy in tearing you down once you've reached a high plateau. Even Tom Cruise isn't immune as people call him a Scientology weirdo and I heard rumors that Katie Holmes was artificially inseminated (even his kids with Nicole Kidman were adopted). Does any of that take away from the fact that he's a bigtime box office star? If I'm a fan of someone, I could care less what they do in their personal life.

[Cebby]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

I think his music will outshine the other stuff in the long run. I don't see anyone breaking Thriller's record sales, and his music was just that good. People remember Elvis as an icon for his music and movies and not for falling off, getting fat and dying of a pain killer addiction. I didn't even know about Ray Charles' heroin addiction until I saw the movie "Ray."

Ray and Elvis didn't live in the age of mass media.

However, even using those two as an example doesn't look good for Jackson. Once the music becomes obsolete (Elvis' and Ray Charles' already has and Jackson isn't but 20-30 years away from it), live details become more well known than the music. I'd imagine the under 30 crowd knows that Ray Charles was blind and the image of Elvis (and that he died in the bathroom) more than they know any songs. Granted, it'll be a while before that happens with Michael Jackson, but as long as anyone knows more than 1 or 2 songs, they'll know that he turned white and had some problems.

Even Tom Cruise isn't immune as people call him a Scientology weirdo

Cruise isn't even in the ballpark as Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson didn't bring the media's backlash on himself (unless the allegations are true), while Tom Cruise has gone into the media and said some truly ridiculous things.

[trobinson97]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Ray and Elvis didn't live in the age of mass media.

However, even using those two as an example doesn't look good for Jackson. Once the music becomes obsolete (Elvis' and Ray Charles' already has and Jackson isn't but 20-30 years away from it), live details become more well known than the music. I'd imagine the under 30 crowd knows that Ray Charles was blind and the image of Elvis (and that he died in the bathroom) more than they know any songs. Granted, it'll be a while before that happens with Michael Jackson, but as long as anyone knows more than 1 or 2 songs, they'll know that he turned white and had some problems.

Cruise isn't even in the ballpark as Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson didn't bring the media's backlash on himself (unless the allegations are true), while Tom Cruise has gone into the media and said some truly ridiculous things.

How is Elvis's and Ray Charles's music obsolete?

[SPTO]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Ray and Elvis didn't live in the age of mass media.

However, even using those two as an example doesn't look good for Jackson. Once the music becomes obsolete (Elvis' and Ray Charles' already has and Jackson isn't but 20-30 years away from it), live details become more well known than the music. I'd imagine the under 30 crowd knows that Ray Charles was blind and the image of Elvis (and that he died in the bathroom) more than they know any songs. Granted, it'll be a while before that happens with Michael Jackson, but as long as anyone knows more than 1 or 2 songs, they'll know that he turned white and had some problems.

You think Ray Charles' and Elvis' music is obsolete? Try telling that to the Elvis estate and I dunno bout you, but most people think Charles' was a genius. His music is the backbone of modern RnB.

[Po Pimp]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Ray and Elvis didn't live in the age of mass media.

However, even using those two as an example doesn't look good for Jackson. Once the music becomes obsolete (Elvis' and Ray Charles' already has and Jackson isn't but 20-30 years away from it), live details become more well known than the music. I'd imagine the under 30 crowd knows that Ray Charles was blind and the image of Elvis (and that he died in the bathroom) more than they know any songs. Granted, it'll be a while before that happens with Michael Jackson, but as long as anyone knows more than 1 or 2 songs, they'll know that he turned white and had some problems.

LOL@Ray Charles and Elvis' music being obsolete. Ray Charles just won a Grammy for Album of the Year back in 2004-05 (same year his biopic came out, which introduced him to new fans), and Elvis made 52 million dollars last year.

Michael Jackson's music isn't going to become obsolete. If it were going to, it would already be. You know Thriller came out 27 years ago right? Oh, I get it... good music magically dies after 50 years...LOL

[Cebby]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

How is Elvis's and Ray Charles's music obsolete?

Because nobody under 35 listens to it (aside from maybe a few people like SPTO who believe that Leave it to Beaver is an accurate depiction of that time period).

LOL@Ray Charles and Elvis' music being obsolete. Ray Charles just won a Grammy for Album of the Year back in 2004-05 (same year his biopic came out, which introduced him to new fans), and Elvis made 52 million dollars last year.

Elvis' music didn't make 52 million dollars. Elvis the person made 52 million dollars, mostly from "visitors and merchandising" who were there "due to the 30th anniversary extravaganza in Graceland."

Grammys are not only pointless awards, but have nothing to do with relevancy in today's music. No better example of that than Steely Dan beating out the highest selling rap album of all time (well, at least the one not made by MC Hammer). Ray Charles final album was released 2 months after his death and about 1.5 month before his movie came out. His last album was also his first album to go gold in 36 years.

"Obsolete" was probably not a good word to use, but the point still remains that Ray Charles and Elvis' music isn't at all popular today. Both Elvis and Ray made money the last few years off of Elvis and Ray the people, not their music.

If it were going to, it would already be. You know Thriller came out 27 years ago right? Oh, I get it... good music magically dies after 50 years...LOL

Almost all pop culture dies after 50 years. It's not magic; it's what happens when the people who made it popular die. The people who made Michael Jackson popular aren't even all that old at this point, let alone dying in large numbers.

How much 50 year old music do you think the average teenager listens to?

Hell, how much Michael Jackson was anyone listening to a month ago?

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

I listen to Elvis and have since I was a kid. Sure, Elvis may not be mainstream music anymore, but anybody who even thinks about listening to early rock, rockabilly, country-rock, roots-rock, etc knows that Elvis first two albums are a great place to start. His music may be more niche and the audience may be more willing to "look" for music than it was 50 years ago, but its far from "obsolete." He ain't Bill Haley.

And first rock n roll song is a toss up between Ike Turner's Rocket 88 and Rock Around the Clock by Bill Haley (which came 4 years after Rocket 88).

[trobinson97]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Because nobody under 35 listens to it (aside from maybe a few people like SPTO who believe that Leave it to Beaver is an accurate depiction of that time period).

El

I listen to Ray Charles. What people 35 and under aren't listening to hardly makes it obsolete. I know you said obsolete was the wrong word so what is it you're trying to say? Someone will be listening to it and that's the point Po Pimp is making. Just like how 50+ years since Rock N Roll began, people are still looking for those songs, 50 years from now people will still be looking to hear MJ's music. The music is going to live on, it doesn't really matter if it's whats popular at the time.

If your point was that what's popular now won't be popular forever then, of course, but everyone knows that I am sure.

[SPTO]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Because nobody under 35 listens to it (aside from maybe a few people like SPTO who believe that Leave it to Beaver is an accurate depiction of that time period).

That was below the belt man...Way below the belt (for the record I believe movies like Detective Story, Rebel Without a Cause and The Wild One are closer to an accurate depiction of the time frame) Anyways, just because no one under 35 (which I find hard to believe) doesn't listen to Elvis or Ray Charles regularly doesn't make it obsolete or whatever it is you're trying to say. The point is, someone is listening to it and that's all that counts.

Hell, with the way mainstream popular music samples older stuff there'll always be exposure to the music of the past. Heck, that song a couple years ago by Sean Kingston "Beautiful Girls" opened kids' eyes to the music of Ben E. King for cryin' out loud!

[Po Pimp]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

@Cebby, so are u saying if an album isn't on the charts 20 years after its release, its a flash in the pan? I didn't just start listening to MJ again when he died...I never really stopped to be honest. I don't think I've ever went more than a month without hearing a MJ song (and thats being generous).

Also, current music sucks. I listen to a lot of music that came out before I was born. Good music is timeless and will be rediscovered by younger generations.

[CMH]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

The issue for Jackson and his music is that it spreads across several genres. Yes, that's an issue for Jackson the musician.

Where as with Elvis you can look at it and say that's where rock started or with Ray Charles where you can say that's R&B, what is Jackson?

Pop music today is nothing like the pop music he was making in the 80's and early 90's. I think most people wouldn't even want to compare pop music today to Jackson. It'd be an embarrassment to his music.

So, for Jackson, it's probably more about his act, his style, his performances, and his album sales that will keep him in the public eye. But, for music fans, it's hard for someone to look back at his music and say that this is what made music today.

And yes, I understand, and agree, with people that will say that Jackson's music helped shape a lot of the music today, but Jackson's music is very wide spread, it covers many genres beyond Pop. That makes it harder for a specific fanbase to pinpoint a music's influence to Michael Jackson.

[SPTO]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

And yes, I understand, and agree, with people that will say that Jackson's music helped shape a lot of the music today, but Jackson's music is very wide spread, it covers many genres beyond Pop. That makes it harder for a specific fanbase to pinpoint a music's influence to Michael Jackson.

You're right that you can't pinpoint Jackson to a particular style of music but you can clearly see Jackson's influence on others. So I think instead of saying MJ's music is what spawned the different genres you can look at his longterm legacy and success in the acts that have a little bit of him in them. Guys like Justin Timberlake and Usher clearly have undertones of Michael Jackson's style in their music and stage persona.

[CMH]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

You're right that you can't pinpoint Jackson to a particular style of music but you can clearly see Jackson's influence on others. So I think instead of saying MJ's music is what spawned the different genres you can look at his longterm legacy and success in the acts that have a little bit of him in them. Guys like Justin Timberlake and Usher clearly have undertones of Michael Jackson's style in their music and stage persona.

Oh, yea, those guys definitely fit the mold, but that's what I was getting at. Both Justin and Usher sing two different types of music. So it's not about the genre, but the act, performance, and style (whatever other word you think fits there).

His influence, in my opinion (and you may disagree. That's cool) isn't going to be about the music; it'll be how people will try to emulate his entertaining aspects. Michael Jackson became an icon because of his ability to manipulate the media into paying attention. He made himself big with his act and his look. The guy took a disease and turned into a stylish glove that made him instantly recognizable across the world. That's what separates him.

Other stars do get huge media attention, but it's all cookie cutter. If it's a cute girl with good music, then it's about her nights out on the town, her cleavage being exposed, or her going commando while riding a limo. If it's a guy it's about which girl he's dating now, what new fashion trend he's following (not starting), and how hot he is.

No one talked about MJ dating anyone. No one cared. No one talked about MJ being incredibly hot. No one cared. MJ was just a star...and that ultimately killed him and his career.

I thought the following comment was great because it really captured Michael Jackson's career:

"To me, Michael Jackson was at his best when he wasn't trying to live up to the pressure of being Michael Jackson."

[Rocky]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Really found this staggering, especially in this era:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616358/20090716/jackson_michael.jhtml

[baseball66]

Re: Michael Jackson has passed away

Anyone here actually believe that the kids are really his? I just can't see it. No way does a black man have kids that are white with blue eyes.