The Walking Dead (Season 3)

[kingkilla56]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

Michonne has never been a deep character in the comics. She has always been the bad ***, but never someone you go to for a deep moment.

Yeah she has brief moments of vulnerability that remind us that she is human in the comic, but isnt somebody to expect major character development out of. She's there to be the badass. The show is trying something different with her and Andrea that is bringing Michonne up a tier in the character pecking order.

[CMH]

I agree with a lot of this, but you did forget to mention that the Governor sent Merle after Michonne to kill her after she left.

Also, I do disagree with his intentions of killing the soldiers to protect Woodbury. I don't really think soldiers would attack a community if they came across one, and I don't think the Governor had that in mind either.

I did forget to mention that.

Though I would argue he had no choice at that point. He knew her intentions. I call it premeditated self defense.

The soldiers is tough. I get your side and agree but I also see his side. Having said that, Michonne's motivation still had no basis.

What the writers banked on is the audience understanding her because we see what the Governor is doing. I find it insulting.


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[Jr.]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

I did forget to mention that.

Though I would argue he had no choice at that point. He knew her intentions. I call it premeditated self defense.

The soldiers is tough. I get your side and agree but I also see his side. Having said that, Michonne's motivation still had no basis.

What the writers banked on is the audience understanding her because we see what the Governor is doing. I find it insulting.


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Yeah I can see your side on the Governor sending Merle after Michonne. I'm not a big Michonne fan either for the reasons you've stated, so ultimately I do agree with you.

[jeremym480]

I hoping that now that the Governor has lost an eye, he becomes more evil.... err I mean begins to be evil.
He's basically what Rick is to his group now. He's just trying to help his community survive anyway he can. That means acquiring weapons by any means necessary and taking out potential threats. What he's done to this point doesn't really scream big, bad villain to me, so I hope he brings the crazy in the 2nd half.

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[Leon]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

He threatened Maggie and made her strip. I appreciate the stripping part, but scaring her was a no-no.

So, whatever, he's a villain.

[jeremym480]

He threatened Maggie and made her strip. I appreciate the stripping part, but scaring her was a no-no.

So, whatever, he's a villain.

Rick and Shane beat a dude last season to try and get info about their group.

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[DukeC]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

Rick and Shane beat a dude last season to try and get info about their group.

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.....

Wasn't it that guy with the same dudes trying to kill them though?

Didn't Rick try to talk first?

Were they not fired at first?

Didn't the guy reveal that he knew where the farm was?

I'm not saying Rick's blameless, I'm just saying that the Govna takes a "Fire first, never ask questions" while Rick at least attempts to open up a dialogue.

He's also just fine with letting people go (unless they tried to kill him first).

[CMH]

Let me be clear about my feelings on the Governor.

I'm totally fine with Rick's group finding him a villain. The guy did kidnap two of his people, threatened Maggie, beat up a man, and captured another.

It's on.

I don't get why I should root for Michonne to best the guy. I'm having a huge disconnect between what is being forced and what's been shown to me. I find her to be the villain in that scenario.


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[Quint75]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

I hoping that now that the Governor has lost an eye, he becomes more evil.... err I mean begins to be evil.
He's basically what Rick is to his group now. He's just trying to help his community survive anyway he can. That means acquiring weapons by any means necessary and taking out potential threats. What he's done to this point doesn't really scream big, bad villain to me, so I hope he brings the crazy in the 2nd half.

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So murdering the National Guardsman (including the helicopter pilot) was not evil? Sorry, I get the whole Michonne overreacted from the beginning thing but the governor is not a good guy and there is no excuse for murdering the guardsmen. If it was the right thing to do, why does he constantly lie to his own people? Cause he knows what is better for them than they do? Sorry, not buying it. I agree that they could have done a better job making him seem more evil, but what he did was cold blooded murder, not survival. So I guess give the writers credit for making him a bit more nuanced and grey rather than ten shades of black and twirling a mustache.

[Beantown]

So murdering the National Guardsman (including the helicopter pilot) was not evil? Sorry, I get the whole Michonne overreacted from the beginning thing but the governor is not a good guy and there is no excuse for murdering the guardsmen. If it was the right thing to do, why does he constantly lie to his own people? Cause he knows what is better for them than they do? Sorry, not buying it. I agree that they could have done a better job making him seem more evil, but what he did was cold blooded murder, not survival. So I guess give the writers credit for making him a bit more nuanced and grey rather than ten shades of black and twirling a mustache.

I agree. That's not survival - that's "lets kill these guys and steal all their stuff." That's something a villain does.

I also agree that the writers deserve credit for making the villain seem more sympathetic, and let you decide who really is good and evil in this world. It's not clear-cut, it's not black and white...both groups have good and bs things that they do. It's a nice change. If you want to think Michonne is more of a villain than the Governor, you can. Just because she is with Ricks group doesn't mean they're forcing you to root for her or like her.

[CMH]

I agree. That's not survival - that's "lets kill these guys and steal all their stuff." That's something a villain does.

I also agree that the writers deserve credit for making the villain seem more sympathetic, and let you decide who really is good and evil in this world. It's not clear-cut, it's not black and white...both groups have good and bs things that they do. It's a nice change. If you want to think Michonne is more of a villain than the Governor, you can. Just because she is with Ricks group doesn't mean they're forcing you to root for her or like her.

Good points. Won't argue this.


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[Beantown]

Good points. Won't argue this.


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I really get what your complaints are...I just think you're so tainted by bad writing in most shows that you're assuming Michonne seeming more evil is the writers being lazy when the optimist/fan of the show in me thinks its the opposite. They took a fan favorite from the comics and turned her into something - slightly - different by making the Governor more sympathetic. It's not black and white intentionally because they like to keep the show fresh even for comic readers. Take the same characters and add their own twists....this time by making Michonne/Gov more gray.

I could be wrong and it could be bad writing....but I'm hoping/choosing to believe its intentional.

[CMH]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

I really get what your complaints are...I just think you're so tainted by bad writing in most shows that you're assuming Michonne seeming more evil is the writers being lazy when the optimist/fan of the show in me thinks its the opposite. They took a fan favorite from the comics and turned her into something - slightly - different by making the Governor more sympathetic. It's not black and white intentionally because they like to keep the show fresh even for comic readers. Take the same characters and add their own twists....this time by making Michonne/Gov more gray.

I could be wrong and it could be bad writing....but I'm hoping/choosing to believe its intentional.

I try to go into every discussion/argument with the hope that someone can change my mind if they can give me reason to change it. Something you said in your post made me reconsider my position on the writing.

I'm definitely jaded. You know that about me. But I do think your gray argument and the writers maybe trying to position the Governor as the sympathetic villain is a good point. Excellent really.

Perhaps Michonne is supposed to make me feel indifferent because the writers want me to sympathize with the villain. It's his story too. He's trying to survive, even if his methods are less conventional than Rick's. And with that I see how they might be trying to show us how two different leaders take care of their own. I can vibe with that.

Others made similar statements earlier in the thread, so not to discredit them either. The collective achieved a notable feat today.

[jeremym480]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

So murdering the National Guardsman (including the helicopter pilot) was not evil? Sorry, I get the whole Michonne overreacted from the beginning thing but the governor is not a good guy and there is no excuse for murdering the guardsmen. If it was the right thing to do, why does he constantly lie to his own people? Cause he knows what is better for them than they do? Sorry, not buying it. I agree that they could have done a better job making him seem more evil, but what he did was cold blooded murder, not survival. So I guess give the writers credit for making him a bit more nuanced and grey rather than ten shades of black and twirling a mustache.

I haven't read the comics and I guess after seeing some of the posts about the Governor and Michonne at the end of season 2 caused me to believe that he was going to be different than what they are.

I thought that Governor would be a total bad*** similar to the "bad guys" I see on my other favorite shows, but he hasn't been. He did murder the National Guardsman in cold blood, I'll give you that. However, even though they made no move on his camp, I believe that he sees anyone close to Woodbury (especially if they have weapons) as a threat. Like I said earlier, nothing else that he has done is really much different than Rick. I actually do give the writers credit for making him interesting and somewhat of a sympathetic figure. I would just like to see him bring it up a notch in the second half of the season. Hell, anyone with any eye patch has to take the crazy up a notch, right?

On the other hand you have Michonne, who has been the complete opposite of the Governor so far. I won't go into to much detail about her because I think that CMH's recent post have been spot on. The only thing that I will say is that I wish the writers would have made something more happen to her (when she first got to Woodbury)other than having her sword taken away. Because her motivation to get out of Woodbury never made much sense to me. Everything that happened to her after what she did in WB was her own fault. Anyway, I think I would like her more if they added more depth to her character. More lines, less scowls is a good start to that.

With all of this said, I guess it seems like I'm complaining, but I'm really not. I have loved this season so far. Hell, action wise it's probably the best season of any series ever, in my opinion. I can't wait until the breaks over to find out what happens with Darryl and to get to know this Tyrese guy. I'm just hoping that he has some more meat to his character than Michonne has so far.

[Scott812313]

Re: The Walking Dead (Season 3)

I haven't read the comics and I guess after seeing some of the posts about the Governor and Michonne at the end of season 2 caused me to believe that he was going to be different than what they are.

I thought that Governor would be a total bad*** similar to the "bad guys" I see on my other favorite shows, but he hasn't been. He did murder the National Guardsman in cold blood, I'll give you that. However, even though they made no move on his camp, I believe that he sees anyone close to Woodbury (especially if they have weapons) as a threat. Like I said earlier, nothing else that he has done is really much different than Rick. I actually do give the writers credit for making him interesting and somewhat of a sympathetic figure. I would just like to see him bring it up a notch in the second half of the season. Hell, anyone with any eye patch has to take the crazy up a notch, right?

On the other hand you have Michonne, who has been the complete opposite of the Governor so far. I won't go into to much detail about her because I think that CMH's recent post have been spot on. The only thing that I will say is that I wish the writers would have made something more happen to her (when she first got to Woodbury)other than having her sword taken away. Because her motivation to get out of Woodbury never made much sense to me. Everything that happened to her after what she did in WB was her own fault. Anyway, I think I would like her more if they added more depth to her character. More lines, less scowls is a good start to that.

With all of this said, I guess it seems like I'm complaining, but I'm really not. I have loved this season so far. Hell, action wise it's probably the best season of any series ever, in my opinion. I can't wait until the breaks over to find out what happens with Darryl and to get to know this Tyrese guy. I'm just hoping that he has some more meat to his character than Michonne has so far.

I could get with this line of thinking if it weren't for his creepy 1 liner as he initiated the ambush.