Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I'll give you that Star Wars is much more accessible than Star Trek was (prior to 2009), but you'd be hard-pressed to say that it doesn't cater to a certain crowd still. Not calling people who like these films "nerds," but I will say that a lot of nerds really do like their SW/ST series.

I think in terms of the original trilogy, from ANH-ESB-ROTJ it gets a little less accessible as you continue going down the road. The prequels are also ultimately not very accessible, at least in my opinion. I look at a scene like this and understand why my sisters would be dismissive to try and watch these films (besides the fact AOTC just isn't good).

Case in point, my older sister saw most of ANH, thought it was dumb, and won't give any other SW films a chance. I want her to try TFA and see what she thinks. As much of a carbon copy as it is to ANH, I personally think she'll like it. It is modern, it is "hip," it has a female lead, and Disney does little Disneyesque things to IMO make it more accessible.

But it will forever be more accessible than Star Trek ever was, I'll never disagree to that.

We are on the same page. TFA is far more accessible to todays youth than ANH will ever be. And Disney did a great job with that movie to reel in a new generation of Star Wars fans.

I exposed my son to Star Wars when he was only 4 years old and he took to it. If you expose your kids when they are young and highly impressionable it makes a difference.

His favorites are in order:

ESB
ROTS
ANH
ROTJ
TFA
R1
TLJ
TPM
AOTC

He is all about Darth Vader. He loved Revenge of The Sith and also digs General Grevious big time.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Say what you will about AOTC, but I always enjoy:
"The Techno Union Army erzzzeruerbzurb is at your disposal Count".

LMAO! Some great scenes in AOTC but overall.....it was the weakest in the entire series IMO. And my god the CGI is horrid at the droid factory. Just awful.

[Cardot]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

LMAO! Some great scenes in AOTC but overall.....it was the weakest in the entire series IMO. And my god the CGI is horrid at the droid factory. Just awful.

Maybe Lucas will do a "Special Edition" treatment to AOTC and update some of that CGI. LOL. If so, I am in.....I am probably the only one....but still in.

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I saw TLJ for the second time yesterday and it was much better. I was prepared for the parts that annoyed me last time like:

Spoiler

the lightsaber flip and Marry Poppins Leia. Luke's part was much better for me the second time around. I was horrified that they made him consider killing Ben originally. That just didn't fit with the character. Luke didn't want to kill Vader in the original trilogy when he was so evil, but now Jedi Master Luke would kill his nephew as he just started to fall? Does not fit. But still, knowing it was coming this time, I appreciated the story and Luke's conflict more.

So those parts didn't bother me as much. Nowt he parts that I really liked about the movie the most like the opening and the big Snoke scene were still great. I picked up on a couple other characters in the movie that I really liked like the A-wing pilot, I think her name was Tallie. Even the Canto Bight stuff was better this time around.

But at the end of the day I still fill like this movie was a bait and switch from the TFA. I still think they abandoned storyline plots that were set up in TFA like

Spoiler

Rey's parentage because she Snoke and Ren were way too interested in her to be a nobody, and I also feel like Luke's death was not needed at the end of the movie. It will be ok if Luke is a force ghost in IX. Yoda and Kenobi were still big parts of movies as force ghosts and evidently they can even affect the physical world since we saw what Yoda did in this movie.

So anyway, I can take down my arms about the movie now. It isn't all that I wanted but it still made me happy watching it the second time. First time not so much lol!

One last hope of mine for IX, which the way it is going will never happen, is

Spoiler

For Ren to be redeemed. I just can't accept the last of the Skywalker bloodline being an evil Sith baddie. He has to be redeemed. The scene with him and Rey sitting in the hut holding hands was very powerful and you could feel his conflict. He was so close. I don't buy that he killed Snoke just for power, he was saving Rey because he cares about her, not just because she is a powerful tool to help him rule the galaxy. Plus, I still don't see Ren's motivation for ruling the galaxy, I never got that from him in TFA so it takes me back in this movie.

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I saw TLJ for the second time yesterday and it was much better. I was prepared for the parts that annoyed me last time like:

My buddy who's a huge SW fan said the same thing at first - his second viewing was better because he was bracing for the bad/cringe parts and knew they were coming. He then did a 180 - two days after his second viewing I got a flurry of angry texts from him about how dumb he was for trying to force/trick himself into liking the movie during his second viewing and said...

When you have to view a movie a second time and consciously ignore the bad parts so you can enjoy it? Yeah, that's the sign of a bad movie.

He dislikes the movie even more after his second viewing.

I still haven't seen it a second time, maybe when I can catch it on a half-price Tuesdays I will. Still not sure I want to give Disney anymore $ for this turd.

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

My buddy who's a huge SW fan said the same thing at first - his second viewing was better because he was bracing for the bad/cringe parts and knew they were coming. He then did a 180 - two days after his second viewing I got a flurry of angry texts from him about how dumb he was for trying to force/trick himself into liking the movie during his second viewing and said...

When you have to view a movie a second time and consciously ignore the bad parts so you can enjoy it? Yeah, that's the sign of a bad movie.

He dislikes the movie even more after his second viewing.

I still haven't seen it a second time, maybe when I can catch it on a half-price Tuesdays I will. Still not sure I want to give Disney anymore $ for this turd.

I agree with it being a bad sign that you ignore certain parts to like a movie better. I don't think I went in the second time ignoring those parts, I just went in with the knowledge that the movie wasn't going to go the way I wanted. Once I came to terms with that and I thought about the good aspects of the new direction I was able to enjoy the movie. It was just such a shock originally that it took me days to get over, which is kind of crazy to let a movie affect you that way. But I've been a Star Wars fan for over 30 years. Love all the movies, read 200+ novels, comics, memorabilia, etc, so I understand why it matters so much to me.

Spoiler

Part of me even understands why Luke had to die. His character isn't needed in a physical sense anymore. It isn't Luke's place to defeat Ren, that's Rey's place if she can't redeem him. Luke could have defeated Snoke, but I loved the way Ren did it so that's ok. So what is there for Luke to do except get over his failure and try to build up the Jedi again. Hopefully he can do that as a force ghost to Rey, I hope so, because like Luke said, no one is really ever gone. It was just a sad way for most people's favorite Star Wars hero to go out, but he did show an enormous amount of Force power in his final "battle" which was awesome. And he confronted Ren without anger but with peace, which is how Jedi should be, and he no doubt got the best of Ren and protected the Rebels where no one else could have.

I may even see it a third time at my $5 theater.

[Cardot]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

It was just such a shock originally that it took me days to get over, which is kind of crazy to let a movie affect you that way. But I've been a Star Wars for over 30 years.

Yes, I am in this exact same boat. Definitely conflicted. Lots of things to like about the movie, but a few key elements that are not aligned with the general vision (that I have had for the last 34+ years my life) regarding the post ROTJ period is tough to shake off.

[Smallville102001]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I'll give you that Star Wars is much more accessible than Star Trek was (prior to 2009), but you'd be hard-pressed to say that it doesn't cater to a certain crowd still. Not calling people who like these films "nerds," but I will say that a lot of nerds really do like their SW/ST series.

I think in terms of the original trilogy, from ANH-ESB-ROTJ it gets a little less accessible as you continue going down the road. The prequels are also ultimately not very accessible, at least in my opinion. I look at a scene like this and understand why my sisters would be dismissive to try and watch these films (besides the fact AOTC just isn't good).

Case in point, my older sister saw most of ANH, thought it was dumb, and won't give any other SW films a chance. I want her to try TFA and see what she thinks. As much of a carbon copy as it is to ANH, I personally think she'll like it. It is modern, it is "hip," it has a female lead, and Disney does little Disneyesque things to IMO make it more accessible.

But it will forever be more accessible than Star Trek ever was, I'll never disagree to that.

I agree about the prequels just because they are such bad movies. If I had never seen star wars before and where to watch episode 1 or 2 I would be like screw this I am done I am not watching any more. I have said if you want to try to get someone into star wars don't start them with the prequels it may just turn them away.

[Majingir]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Finally managed to see it, and not have it spoiled surprisingly. Not the biggest star wars fan so my thoughts will be drastically different than others. Don't know where I'd rank it. Too much recency bias. Not better than Force Awakens. Don't wanna commit to quantifying it, but I'll say maybe of the 8,its around 4-6th in rankings? Not set in stone ranking.

As for for the big spoilers

Spoiler

Rey stuff was fine. Hopefully that reveal about her parents wasn't true. Maybe Kylo believes it, but maybe he doesn't know whole story? Her Jedi training was funny though.

Kylo showed to be more than one dimensional in this one. From hesitating to shooting because Leia was on board, to killing Snoke, wanting to team with Rey, taking over as supreme leader, and revealing what really happened with Luke and his training, he had so much going on.

Luke in this one was different, though if you watched any interviews with Mark Hamill, I guess it wraps up nicely with how his character goes out. Like making peace with going out like a martyr in a way, being that "spark" to inspire next generation.

I really thought Leia was dead when her ship was shot. They said Carrie Fisher's scenes were already finished shooting before she died, so I thought maybe there wasn't much. Whole movie I was waiting for the moment she died, either because of it already being in script, or adding something at end having her die because of Carrie dying. Next movie basically has to begin with funeral right? Bigger version of the one to end episode 3.

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

So wait, here's where I'm confused:

Spoiler

Despite the fact that Kylo actually wasn't the one to reveal the tidbit about Rey's parents, let's just say that he did anyway for the sake of hypothesis...

Why is everyone so quick to not believe him in that case, but when he tells a different story than Luke told about the training dismantling everyone is jumping on board with him and not Luke's testimony?

[Majingir]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

So wait, here's where I'm confused:

Spoiler

Despite the fact that Kylo actually wasn't the one to reveal the tidbit about Rey's parents, let's just say that he did anyway for the sake of hypothesis...

Why is everyone so quick to not believe him in that case, but when he tells a different story than Luke told about the training dismantling everyone is jumping on board with him and not Luke's testimony?

Spoiler

To me, maybe because kylos story about the training was still a good one, and Luke did confirm it too,so it wasn't just a story after all. Saying her parents were nobodies when fans were waiting 2 years thinking it'd be a big reveal makes them think "that can't just be it".

Also, he has 2 different stories. In the elevator he says he knows who her parents are and that's why he can't join her side and she should join his. Maybe there's more than he's letting on. The moment in which he tells her just seems like a moment to try making her vulnerable to joining his side by being like "your parents were nobodies, join me and become a somebody"

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Well I was expecting that to possibly be an answer. I was about 40% sure it was that. And she knew before he said anything.

EDIT: No one has brought this up in this thread yet, but even Maz hinted to it back in The Force Awakens. That's why I suspected that was the answer.

[DJ]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I applaud Rian Johnson for the story he told and direction he took The Last Jedi. I thought the movie was really well done and may go down as one of my favorites in the Star Wars series.

Star Wars has, in most cases, been very black and white with its hero and villain structure. Johnson, I thought, did a great job of blending the two and showing the audience that the reality is there's many more touches of grey in us than maybe we care to acknowledge or believe. To show both the First Order and the Rebellion dealing in the purchasing of high-grade weapons fits right into that narrative.

The inner turmoil of Luke was crafted so well. Everything from his hideout (dark and ominous with the storms overhead) to wardrobe (mix of light and dark colors to symbolize the conflict) just fit. I get that Luke was heroic in the original trilogy, and certainly left the series on a high note with the end of Return of the Jedi, but man, I really liked what Johnson did to show us a Luke that, upon reflection, has once again questioned the Jedi "religion" he idolized. Let's not forget that Luke witnessed firsthand that the Jedi weren't always on the up-and-up when Obi-Wan routinely lied and/or bent the truth to Luke regarding his father. I'd imagine a lot of those feelings bubbled again to the surface after the fallout with Kylo Ren. Luke also says in The Last Jedi (in a nice call back to the prequels) that is was the Jedi's arrogance (paraphrase) that led to Palpatine rising to power, which in turn drew Anakin over to the Dark Side and wiped nearly all of the Jedi.

So yeah, when Rey shows up, I'm sure it's the last thing Luke actually wants to deal with, hence him tossing his saber aside. He's done with the Jedi (at that moment) and while he does agree to train Rey, he does also wise her up to the fact that again, the Jedi aren't these mythical people that always do what's right. The Jedi have hurt people and their decisions have hurt people, just like the Dark Side.

In the end, Luke is redeemed and goes out on a high note, becoming the spark that will light the flame for the Rebellion against the First Order.

All the plot pieces worked for me and all connected to the overreaching theme of the movie.

Poe's story made sense. Finn and Rose's story fit. Kylo's inner conflict works. His relationship with Rey works as they both are still coming to grips with how to harness the immense power they both wield. Will they use it for good or selfish reasons?

I'm excited to see where things shake out after Episode IX.

[KSUowls]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

This is the weirdest progression I've ever gone through as a movie viewer.

I was so incredibly hyped for this movie being a Star Wars fan and loving TFA (and just a fan of these kind of movies in general)

I purchased my tickets for opening night the moment they went forsale online.

Then that Thursday comes. I had a few eye roll moments throughout the movie with the forced humor, but I did walk out of the movie having enjoyed it overall. It had issues sure, and I wouldn't have ranked it among the best SW movies even then. It was a worthwhile watch though.

Less than a month later though, I am to the point where I almost hate the movie. Every time I discuss it with friends or fellow fans it illustrates just how numerous the flaws in the movie were.

For 2 hours I was entertained so I cant say it was a waste of money. For me though its legacy is as bad as any of the prequels.

[tdawg3782]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I applaud Rian Johnson for the story he told and direction he took The Last Jedi. I thought the movie was really well done and may go down as one of my favorites in the Star Wars series.

Star Wars has, in most cases, been very black and white with its hero and villain structure. Johnson, I thought, did a great job of blending the two and showing the audience that the reality is there's many more touches of grey in us than maybe we care to acknowledge or believe. To show both the First Order and the Rebellion dealing in the purchasing of high-grade weapons fits right into that narrative.

The inner turmoil of Luke was crafted so well. Everything from his hideout (dark and ominous with the storms overhead) to wardrobe (mix of light and dark colors to symbolize the conflict) just fit. I get that Luke was heroic in the original trilogy, and certainly left the series on a high note with the end of Return of the Jedi, but man, I really liked what Johnson did to show us a Luke that, upon reflection, has once again questioned the Jedi "religion" he idolized. Let's not forget that Luke witnessed firsthand that the Jedi weren't always on the up-and-up when Obi-Wan routinely lied and/or bent the truth to Luke regarding his father. I'd imagine a lot of those feelings bubbled again to the surface after the fallout with Kylo Ren. Luke also says in The Last Jedi (in a nice call back to the prequels) that is was the Jedi's arrogance (paraphrase) that led to Palpatine rising to power, which in turn drew Anakin over to the Dark Side and wiped nearly all of the Jedi.

So yeah, when Rey shows up, I'm sure it's the last thing Luke actually wants to deal with, hence him tossing his saber aside. He's done with the Jedi (at that moment) and while he does agree to train Rey, he does also wise her up to the fact that again, the Jedi aren't these mythical people that always do what's right. The Jedi have hurt people and their decisions have hurt people, just like the Dark Side.

In the end, Luke is redeemed and goes out on a high note, becoming the spark that will light the flame for the Rebellion against the First Order.

All the plot pieces worked for me and all connected to the overreaching theme of the movie.

Poe's story made sense. Finn and Rose's story fit. Kylo's inner conflict works. His relationship with Rey works as they both are still coming to grips with how to harness the immense power they both wield. Will they use it for good or selfish reasons?

I'm excited to see where things shake out after Episode IX.

Very well said bro.