Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

This is the weirdest progression I've ever gone through as a movie viewer.

Same for me, though I never really ventured into liking the movie I still was all over the place. I went from...

1. Holy crap this is an awful movie.
2. Maybe it's not so bad and maybe I was too harsh.
3. Nah, I'm sticking with "what in the blue hell was Rian Johnson thinking?"

To me, it remains an objectively poor movie. That doesn't mean people can't enjoy it subjectively. But the writing, plotting, storytelling, characters, etc - I don't think I've ever seen a movie that had such great ideas & goals and such poor execution. And I have no problem suspending belief when it comes to SW and physics, plot holes, etc. TLJ really could have been great, instead it's ROTS level for me - well below the OT, RO and TFA.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Same for me, though I never really ventured into liking the movie I still was all over the place. I went from...

1. Holy crap this is an awful movie.
2. Maybe it's not so bad and maybe I was too harsh.
3. Nah, I'm sticking with "what in the blue hell was Rian Johnson thinking?"

To me, it remains an objectively poor movie. That doesn't mean people can't enjoy it subjectively. But the writing, plotting, storytelling, characters, etc - I don't think I've ever seen a movie that had such great ideas & goals and such poor execution. And I have no problem suspending belief when it comes to SW and physics, plot holes, etc. TLJ really could have been great, instead it's ROTS level for me - well below the OT, RO and TFA.

That is my take on the film. I agree with DJ's synopsis as far as concepts and idea's, but the overall execution was choppy at best.

I liked The Last Jedi. I certainly did not love it. Not in the same league as ESB, ANH, R1, ROTJ and TFA in execution. I have it in the Episode III & I (second tier). Only one film is a bottom dweller for me in the entire saga (Episode II).

[DJ]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

"Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."
-Kylo Ren

This quote's been stuck in my head as I look at the Star Wars saga.

For us to truly embrace and enjoy future Star Wars movies, do we have to let go of the past? I think we do. Star Wars stories are going to shift and move more than what we're accustomed to as fans, as it's the blending of multiple stories/visions as opposed to one person (Lucas) coming up with the story and steering the narrative for the first 6 episodes. It's a tall order - nearly impossible - for anyone tasked with penning a Star Wars film treatment to 100% fit the mold/vision that Lucas had.

We all see Star Wars our own way. This has been true from the very beginning. Empire, which is universally loved now, was pretty divisive when it was first released. We've seen in this very thread how much The Last Jedi has split audiences.

I wonder if approaching these films with a different mindset would help? The original trilogy is great and always will be (to me) timeless, but we can't keep comparing future films to IV-V-VI. We have to give others a chance to entertain and capture us, and if we limit creativity by asking these films to play it safe and be more like IV-V-VI, that's not a recipe for success.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

"Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."
-Kylo Ren

This quote's been stuck in my head as I look at the Star Wars saga.

For us to truly embrace and enjoy future Star Wars movies, do we have to let go of the past? I think we do. Star Wars stories are going to shift and move more than what we're accustomed to as fans, as it's the blending of multiple stories/visions as opposed to one person (Lucas) coming up with the story and steering the narrative for the first 6 episodes. It's a tall order - nearly impossible - for anyone tasked with penning a Star Wars film treatment to 100% fit the mold/vision that Lucas had.

We all see Star Wars our own way. This has been true from the very beginning. Empire, which is universally loved now, was pretty divisive when it was first released. We've seen in this very thread how much The Last Jedi has split audiences.

I wonder if approaching these films with a different mindset would help? The original trilogy is great and always will be (to me) timeless, but we can't keep comparing future films to IV-V-VI. We have to give others a chance to entertain and capture us, and if we limit creativity by asking these films to play it safe and be more like IV-V-VI, that's not a recipe for success.

I certainly have. The Force Awakens is great. I love it. I embraced the new heroes and new enemies big time. I just felt TLJ was not nearly as entertaining or well executed.

It had nothing to do with plot direction, more like....plot execution. I felt like Finn's character was a throw away this time around. We are talking about a storm trooper defector. I loved his angle in TFA. I felt like he was missing from this film for the most part. And I actually thought he was going to take one for the team in the end and that was the first time in the entire movie I felt his hate and venom for the The First Order. In TFA...you felt it almost the entire movie. He was a small role this time around.

Poe whom I enjoy also came off as a PITA more than a hero for a little while there.

Again....Rian Johnson I don't think is some great director. I liked Abrams far more. I loved Rouge One as well. I just felt parts of the movie fell really flat and could have been better executed and edited as well for that matter.

The outright fan boy hate that the Star War nerds have is laughable. The movie was entertaining and had plenty of classic Star Wars battles and set pieces. But the story and character stuff was hit and miss.

Loved Kylo in TLJ, loved Rey, really liked Luke too. Did not care for Finn or Poe this go around. And they are the ones I loved the most in TFA.

I am sure episode IX will be really good. But I think Disney ought to reconsider Johnson getting an entire trilogy after this film. I don't think it was a great directorial Star Wars debut IMO.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I actually really liked how they handled Poe in this. It was refreshing to see the "hot shot ace pilot" trope flipped around.

Even Finn's arc felt organic to his "eyes wide open" adventure from the first film. In TFA he came across as a green, wide-eyed kid that's ventured past his neighborhood for the first time. Everything was joyous - a cool, grand adventure. It was nice to see him taken down into the pits of the galaxy and give him a better sense of scale in TLJ.

[DJ]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I actually really liked how they handled Poe in this. It was refreshing to see the "hot shot ace pilot" trope flipped around.

Even Finn's arc felt organic to his "eyes wide open" adventure from the first film. In TFA he came across as a green, wide-eyed kid that's ventured past his neighborhood for the first time. Everything was joyous - a cool, grand adventure. It was nice to see him taken down into the pits of the galaxy and give him a better sense of scale in TLJ.

Glad I saw this before I hit submit on my post, as this aligns with my thoughts on both characters as well.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Perception is everything. And that is why art is subjective.

There is no right answer. To each their own as I always say when it comes to music, movies, video games....hell politics too while we are at it LOL!!!

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

"Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."
-Kylo Ren

This quote's been stuck in my head as I look at the Star Wars saga.

For us to truly embrace and enjoy future Star Wars movies, do we have to let go of the past? I think we do. Star Wars stories are going to shift and move more than what we're accustomed to as fans, as it's the blending of multiple stories/visions as opposed to one person (Lucas) coming up with the story and steering the narrative for the first 6 episodes. It's a tall order - nearly impossible - for anyone tasked with penning a Star Wars film treatment to 100% fit the mold/vision that Lucas had.

We all see Star Wars our own way. This has been true from the very beginning. Empire, which is universally loved now, was pretty divisive when it was first released. We've seen in this very thread how much The Last Jedi has split audiences.

I wonder if approaching these films with a different mindset would help? The original trilogy is great and always will be (to me) timeless, but we can't keep comparing future films to IV-V-VI. We have to give others a chance to entertain and capture us, and if we limit creativity by asking these films to play it safe and be more like IV-V-VI, that's not a recipe for success.

1. Quoting the dark side, we are?

2. Not every director is gonna be George Lucas, but it behooves any future director to try and understand the spirit of these films and characters before giving it some treatment or other.

3. LOL, like anyone can convince people not to make comparisons about these movies. People are gonna use the original trilogy as the measuring stick until The Empire stops trying to solve all its problems with deep space, mobile battlestations that are [surprisingly] fully operational.

[ehh]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

"Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."
-Kylo Ren

This quote's been stuck in my head as I look at the Star Wars saga.

For us to truly embrace and enjoy future Star Wars movies, do we have to let go of the past? I think we do. Star Wars stories are going to shift and move more than what we're accustomed to as fans, as it's the blending of multiple stories/visions as opposed to one person (Lucas) coming up with the story and steering the narrative for the first 6 episodes. It's a tall order - nearly impossible - for anyone tasked with penning a Star Wars film treatment to 100% fit the mold/vision that Lucas had.

Firstly, no I don't think we have to let go of the past and I think that notion is a bit random and odd, though it's clearly what Rian Johnson was aiming for. Why do we have to let go of the past? Just because George Lucas is out of the picture? That doesn't mean we have to burn a good chunk of Star Wars lore to the ground.

Anyway, this all circles back to execution for me. We can have different visions from different folks but you still have to make a good movie and a movie that makes sense within the context of the franchise to a certain degree. We got two movies that hit that mark in TFA and RO and one that missed wildly IMO with TLJ. Rogue One is the least "Star Warsy" film in the series and it's arguably the second best movie after ESB. You can be different and be great, you can also be different and be bad.

There has to be some framework, no matter how loose, for everyone who touches the project. There has to be some sense of continuity, which is a big reason why I feel that Ep 8's new direction is horribly timed. Do that in Johnson's new trilogy, not when we have one episode left in the Skywalker saga.

Lastly, as I've said time and again since TLJ released - change for the sake of change is pointless. It's not smart, it's not artsy, it's not brilliant, it's not deep. Change is good when it makes sense, when it's needed and when it's well-executed. TLJ didn't pull that off in my mind and in the minds of many, many fans.

I wonder if approaching these films with a different mindset would help? The original trilogy is great and always will be (to me) timeless, but we can't keep comparing future films to IV-V-VI. We have to give others a chance to entertain and capture us, and if we limit creativity by asking these films to play it safe and be more like IV-V-VI, that's not a recipe for success.

As I mentioned recently, I think this recommendation or prerequisite is silly. Audiences should not have to mentally prepare themselves before viewing a movie. A good movie captivates audiences in a way that feels effortless.

[jfsolo]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

"Let the past die.
Kill it, if you have to.
It's the only way to become what you're meant to be."
-Kylo Ren

This quote's been stuck in my head as I look at the Star Wars saga.

For us to truly embrace and enjoy future Star Wars movies, do we have to let go of the past? I think we do. Star Wars stories are going to shift and move more than what we're accustomed to as fans, as it's the blending of multiple stories/visions as opposed to one person (Lucas) coming up with the story and steering the narrative for the first 6 episodes. It's a tall order - nearly impossible - for anyone tasked with penning a Star Wars film treatment to 100% fit the mold/vision that Lucas had.

We all see Star Wars our own way. This has been true from the very beginning. Empire, which is universally loved now, was pretty divisive when it was first released. We've seen in this very thread how much The Last Jedi has split audiences.

I wonder if approaching these films with a different mindset would help? The original trilogy is great and always will be (to me) timeless, but we can't keep comparing future films to IV-V-VI. We have to give others a chance to entertain and capture us, and if we limit creativity by asking these films to play it safe and be more like IV-V-VI, that's not a recipe for success.

Star Wars will be fine even if a certain percentage of the public forever rails against it going in directions that they don't agree with and even if that subset eventually bows out of the franchise. There is no reason to try and talk people down from their ire. Many people believe that a creator's vision is sacrosanct, I'm definitely not one of them. Let people have their academic discussions about adhering to the true spirit of Star Wars, Disney is still going to go full throttle in the direction that they want to go in.

Perception is everything. And that is why art is subjective.

There is no right answer. To each their own as I always say when it comes to music, movies, video games....hell politics too while we are at it LOL!!!

Not to take things off the track, but no, not politics too. Politics often involves literal life and death decisions. There damn sure are some right and wrong answers, unless one is a nihilist.

[DJ]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I appreciate the discussion, fellas. Takes me back to the old days here at OS.

I'm not sure what it is about The Last Jedi, could very well be what I've got going on in my life at the moment, but something about this movie just felt different ... in a good way. To me, it is the first Star Wars movie that colored outside the lines, took chances and provided the viewer with plot devices that were left open to interpretation. I love that. The post I made earlier reviewing the film, a lot of that is how I read situations and tried to fill in the pieces that weren't spelled out for us. I have no clue what Rian Johnson was thinking regarding the portrayal of Luke, but that's how I saw it and for me IT WORKS.

I absolutely get where others are coming from. The movie is not perfect. Some scenes dragged and the dialogue was shaky at best at times.

I'd rather see Star Wars movies take a chance like The Last Jedi than play it safe like The Force Awakens, because if we go the trend of the latter, my attachment and investment in the series will wane, as I've already seen versions of those characters/stories. The Last Jedi showed me that Star Wars is capable of going in a new direction while still keeping contact with its lineage. I hope the franchise continues moving that way.

Now, you'll have to excuse me as I mosey into town and pick up some power converters.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Finally saw it yesterday. Didn't enjoy it. The middle of the film moved along way too slowly for my taste. The attempt at humor was cringey at best like they were trying to turn it in to a Marvel film but failed miserably. All in all a lot of nothing to barely advance the plot.

[roadman]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

I will make this short and sweet without making any plot/character opinions.

I didn't look at my watch until I left the theater.

Looks like I had a good time, that's all that counts on my end.

[Money99]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

Finally saw it yesterday. Didn't enjoy it. The middle of the film moved along way too slowly for my taste. The attempt at humor was cringey at best like they were trying to turn it in to a Marvel film but failed miserably. All in all a lot of nothing to barely advance the plot.

That's the worst part. It didn't advance the story at all.

Spoiler

Outside of Snoke getting axed, what did this film accomplish in regards to growing the characters and story?
Kylo Ren is still a hot mess who's raw power is only equalled by his bi polar disorder.
Rey isn't any further along in her Jedi training and we still don't know anything about her background (I think we all know Ren was lying to her).
Po and Finn are still down with the rebellion.

What we got was an incredibly boring, SW version of Smokey and the Bandit.
Maybe if they had added a CGI version of Buford T Justice telling Phasma she 'couldn't close an umbrella' the film could have been salvaged.

Sent from my LG-K210 using Operation Sports mobile app

[aukevin]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

That's the worst part. It didn't advance the story at all.

Spoiler

Outside of Snoke getting axed, what did this film accomplish in regards to growing the characters and story?
Kylo Ren is still a hot mess who's raw power is only equalled by his bi polar disorder.
Rey isn't any further along in her Jedi training and we still don't know anything about her background (I think we all know Ren was lying to her).
Po and Finn are still down with the rebellion.

What we got was an incredibly boring, SW version of Smokey and the Bandit.
Maybe if they had added a CGI version of Buford T Justice telling Phasma she 'couldn't close an umbrella' the film could have been salvaged.

Sent from my LG-K210 using Operation Sports mobile app

Let me spoiler my thoughts on character growth just in case...

Spoiler

I do think Finn's character moved forward a little bit, it just isn't that noticeable. In TFA he was running away from the First Order. He wasn't part of the Resistance, even at the end, he was only on that mission with Solo in order to save Rey. That was all he cared about. At the start of TLJ it was the same thing. He wakes up, and is immediately running away to protect Rey, no loyalty to the Resistance. But finally at the end of the movie after his dual with Phasma, he says he is a Rebel and has finally joined the band. That basically is the only useful thing that really comes out of the whole Canto Bight storyline other than the forced romance with Rose.

As far as Poe, I liked him in this movie even though he wasn't as likable of a character as in TFA. You see him trying to be more of a leader in this movie, but he learns he doesn't know how. So he has some growth as well.

As far as Rey, I really don't know. You're right her training wasn't much. She has the raw power and now all of Luke and the Jedi's text to teach herself. But at least she has moved past her Jakku past and is ready to move on.

Ren is the most intriguing to me. I want characters like him to be redeemed, so that's what I'm hoping for. He couldn't blast Leia and I think most of his motivation in killing Snoke was saving Rey, not just becoming Supreme Leader. I sure hope he is redeemed just for the Skywalker's bloodline sake.