Star Wars: Episode IX

[alifeincomplete]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

I think it’s an awful, rushed mess with too many McGuffins and too much fan service. This entire trilogy has been a wasted opportunity from start to finish. The Skywalker Saga should have ended at ROTJ with the death of the main character. But at least we have The Continuing Adventures of Baby Yoda to look forward to because he’s the cutest.

That said, this movie is fun. It’s enjoyable if you can turn off your brain and not think about how absolutely absurd the plot is and how damaging it is to the existing saga. To that end, TROS is a very fun watch that at least feels like Star Wars—which is more than I say for its immediate predecessor.

I do enjoy the use of

Spoiler

Mustafar

at the beginning.

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

I'm not worried, the future is bright with Baby Yoda and Babu Frik.

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[cima]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

My problems with this movie and the trilogy:

Spoiler

- JJ was way too big on fan service. It was cool for TFA because it had been 30 years since the OT but if you watch Episode VI/VII back to back, all of the callbacks are kind of lame. But I get it because in our real world it was 3 decades since the story last ended.

- If they were so keen on fan service, why did we get ZERO of Anakin/Darth Vader? That's what bothers me the most...Star Wars is what it is because of Darth freaking Vader. We couldn't even get a ghost of Anakin? You can bring back freaking Palpatine and make that a whole huge plot but all we get is Anakin's voice for 3 seconds? You can't have the most important Star Wars character have a presence in any of the films?

- Maybe I need to rewatch this trilogy again, but it seems like they really dropped the ball with Kylo Ren. Y'all remember the end of Rogue One when Darth Vader just destroys everything in sight and in that moment we realized THAT'S the Darth Vader we always wanted to see? I feel like Kylo Ren should've been like that the entire time. Maybe I'm just not remembering but I don't ever remembering feeling "wow this guy is a bad *** villain".

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Spoiler

- Maybe I need to rewatch this trilogy again, but it seems like they really dropped the ball with Kylo Ren. Y'all remember the end of Rogue One when Darth Vader just destroys everything in sight and in that moment we realized THAT'S the Darth Vader we always wanted to see? I feel like Kylo Ren should've been like that the entire time. Maybe I'm just not remembering but I don't ever remembering feeling "wow this guy is a bad *** villain".

I will contend that of all things that Abrams and Kennedy didn't foresee a plan for by the end of Episode IX, that where they took this particular item is something that was always in the cards. Maybe not in the exact way that it was handled, but this bit was always an inevitability. And I'm glad they did what they did here. The buildup of it otherwise would've been a waste IMO.

So I'm not saying this condescendingly at all, but yeah... maybe you do need to rewatch it again regarding this instance.

[Rocky]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Spoiler

Does it feel weird to anyone else that in the end, a Palpatine brought balance to the force? I get the story that we are more than where we came from. Its a very common story trope in these type of stories. But man, this seems to marginalize alot of the past. Like when you re watch from episode one through 6 now, does it feel different now? Like in a good way?

Spoiler

I think the bigger question is does she tell anybody she's a Palpatine? I can't imagine that very many want a Palpatine as the most powerful being in the universe no matter how many she's saves. She'll always be a risk. So it's actually pretty smart to take the Skywalker name.

That being said, it's pretty crappy of her if she doesn't tell anybody...at least Finn.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Star wars has never had a deep engrossing story though. Not the movies at least. For the most part it's pretty predictable and its focus is on the heroes and villains and special effects. I can't say I was ever blown away with the acting.

If people really wanted a deeper feel into star wars. They would have to make a Game of thrones like series and even that wouldn't do it justice. There's so much canon and countless stories and characters in the star wars universe. Its endless.

They basically did that with the clone war cartoons. There's alot of important material in there. The movies have to be rushed imo. Not even the brilliant directors of the Avengers movies could do the star wars universe justice imo because it's just so vast.




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[SinisterAlex]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Saw the movie last night. I expected to walk out of the theater hating the film but I walked out enjoying it. It's not the best Star Wars film ever but not the worst.


In JJ's defense he literally had nothing to work with going into ep 9. I like what he did with the story:

Spoiler

IMO the only reason they brought back Palaptine was because they had no antagonist for episode 9 after killing off Snoke. We all knew Kylo Ren would go back to the light side and become Ben Solo again, it was predictable. I don't mind Palpatine coming back but what I was annoyed with is that he had offspring. Just totally out of the blue and no realistic for his character IMO.

Aside from that I thought it was a good film. Some pacing issues in the first half (due to Rian Johnson's disaster of a film...) but all in all a good end to the Saga. I'd give it a good 7/10.

[Caulfield]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

just gonna rank Disney's take on Star Wars. hard to believe they've done almost as much in 5 years as Lucas did in all his.

1) - Rogue One
2) - Force Awakens
3) - Rise of Skywalker
4) - Solo
5) - Last Jedi

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

just gonna rank Disney's take on Star Wars. hard to believe they've done almost as much in 5 years as Lucas did in all his.

1) - Rogue One
2) - Force Awakens
3) - Rise of Skywalker
4) - Solo
5) - Last Jedi

Agree 100% with your rankings.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

just gonna rank Disney's take on Star Wars. hard to believe they've done almost as much in 5 years as Lucas did in all his.

1) - Rogue One
2) - Force Awakens
3) - Rise of Skywalker
4) - Solo
5) - Last Jedi

Rogue One was so good.

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[Smallville102001]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

just gonna rank Disney's take on Star Wars. hard to believe they've done almost as much in 5 years as Lucas did in all his.

1) - Rogue One
2) - Force Awakens
3) - Rise of Skywalker
4) - Solo
5) - Last Jedi

1. TFA
2. ROSW
3. TLJ
4. RO
5. Solo

Solo was just boring and i like RO but it is the most overrated star wars movie in the whole franchise.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Ok here we go. Had a chance to sleep on it and start to process it.

Spoiler

The tldr version of my review can be described in 1 word: Ambivalent.



The below is quite long because well...this is 2 years of built up anger over Rian Johnson's TLJ and the knowledge that he is still getting his own Star Wars trilogy lol.





Overall I enjoyed this movie, and I think if I were to watch it again I would enjoy it even more (I spent much of the movie expecting to be let down).



I'm not trying to restart things that were well covered in the Episode VIII thread, but I don't think that you can review this movie without touching on TLJ and it's lack of character development as well as it's world breaking mechanics. The below has a lot of critiques on TRoS, but most of the problems originated in the last movie. Much of TRoS felt rushed, and even though I was ultimately happy with the conclusions of the various story arcs, I was left wanting more because it was clear how good this movie could have been had there been a single voice driving the plot and characters start to finish.



To me this was simultaneously the best version of episode 9 that I could have hoped for (minus a few issues) while also being, strangely, a disappointment because you can see what it could have been had it not spent so much time trying to undo problems from TLJ. This movie would have been better served as its own trilogy or even just splitting it Part 1 & Part 2 like so many other blockbuster franchises have done over the last decade.



Onto the details:



Rey's lineage. I was happy to see Rey as a Palpatine. For one, I think it's just a cool plot point that the savior of the galaxy is the granddaughter of the most powerful sith lord ever. Also,it was necessary because the explanation in TLJ didn't make sense. She was far too powerful to simply be a nobody. There were only 3 theories that made sense. She was somehow related to the Skywalkers, she was some kind of reincarnation of Anakin via the force, or she had the blood of Palpatine. She possessed far too much natural ability, as far back as TFA, for her to be anything than somehow related to one of the legacy characters with incredibly strong connections to the force.



Still though. I wanted more. Had this been revealed during TLJ instead of half way through TRoS then maybe we could have had more exposition into that, but as it stands it was rushed. We go through the entire movie with only a couple of force ghosts (putting Leia in that category even then only alluded to) and Kylo knowing that Rey is Palpatine. There was no big reveal to any of her friends, and even though she knew it part way through the movie she never really struggled with it. Yeah, she did try to hide out on the same planet Luke did, but that lasted all of about 10 seconds before Luke's force ghost catches (ugh) the lightsaber she throws into the fire and sets her straight. For me, one of the coolest moments of the entire movie was when she accidentally shoots lightning and blows up the First Order ship. It shows that she is both ridiculously powerful but also has a natural tendency towards the dark side (something that makes sense when you find out she's Palpatine's blood). She didn't even know that she carried the blood of the sith lord trying to rule the galaxy at that point, and we got more insight into her personal struggle in the immediate aftermath there than we did in the entire rest of the movie when it was revealed to her a few minutes later. I wish we had gotten more of this inner struggle, but it was always going to be hard because TLJ never explored it beyond Luke mentioning things like "you went straight to the dark side" and "I've only felt this kind of power once before". There just was not enough time.



Emperor Palpatine. Ok, so I liked that Rey was revealed to be a Palpatine, and so it was probably unavoidable that he would be back. J didn't really like how it was handled though. We still don't know how he survived the fall of the Death Star, ending up crippled, and the final confrontation was pretty anti-climatic. It was cool to see him back, and he was more menacing that Snoke ever was. This was just another area where things felt rushed.



Kylo Ren. So, I've hated his character since TFA. At no point during the first two movies did I picture him as this powerful and dangerous sith lord. Someone who was clearly trained by both Skywalker and Snoke, and ascended to 2nd in command of the First Order (later supreme ruler). Instead he was some emo teen with daddy issues who liked to take his shirt off. TRoS though...for the first time in the new trilogy I really felt like Kylo was worth something. We see it in the opening scene of the movie where he is running through hoards of creatures with his light saber, and how he enters the Emperor's ship unafraid of what he might face. I would have preferred to not see some redemption arc, him throwing his lightsaber (that he wishes he had later on), and everything that happened after that. I think it would have been more appropriate for him to die when Rey stabbed him, finally realizing that Leia was still with him, while also showing Rey the dangers of what her anger can lead her to do. I can't really fault the way it was handled, but it was a bit easy.



Finn. Another character who I really didn't care for in the first 2 movies who saw tremendous growth in TRoS. In the first 2 movies he was a sidekick who wasn't a very good side kick. In this one, from start to finish he really earns his way. I REALLY could have done without the "Finn is suddenly force sensitive" plot point though. Far too convenient. I still find his character to be incomplete and shallow, but there is only so much you can do in 1 movie.



Poe. Remove him from the trilogy and nothing changes, actually it gets better because you don't have the stupid opening scene in TLJ of yo mama jokes and fake static "can you hear me now" staring down the entire First Order fleet...but I digress. He was a catalyst for a few major plot points, the most important being the first one in TFA when he's trying to find the map, but most of them were forced and contrived. At no point in his entire story arc over 3 movies was a compelling reason given for his character growing into a leadership role. The closest we get is in TFA when it shows he is a courageous ace pilot, but he was barely in that movie. In both TLJ and TRoS though, we get many reasons why he shouldn't be the one in command. His character was there to offer comedic relief which often wasn't funny, and the attributes he was credited with were never adequately displayed in the trilogy.



ReyLo - This romantic pairing just didn't make sense. Rey states, "I would have taken Ben's hand"...why?! You never knew him before he was Kylo, and honestly you barely knew him as Kylo. It's implied that they shared some force bond that I guess let her see the inner him, but from TLJ's cross-galaxy communications to the final kiss in TRoS, their entire relationship was completely contrived.



Jedi/Sith now are apparently gods. One of the big issues I did have with TRoS, and to a lesser degree this entire trilogy. Force users became all-powerful gods with their ability to pick people up and throw them around with precision (instead of more like a strong push), healing mortal wounds with a touch, the ability to shoot enough lightning to decimate an entire fleet of ships, etc. If Jedi are this powerful, I don't understand how they ever succumbed to Order 66 in the prequels. Kind of reminds me of Dragon Ball Z as a kid, where the abilities of everyone just keep increasing exponentially every episode. Personally, I think that the Star Wars universe works better when Jedi/Sith are less All-Powerful Space Wizard, and more skilled knight with a few tricks up his sleeve.



Star Destroy-Death Stars...why??? This is the one area of TRoS where the blame rests entirely on JJ Abrams. I didn't mind star killer base in TFA. I would have probably preferred a different kind of antagonistic threat, but I was ok seeing Death Star part 3 in TFA. I am just so over that plot point now though. On some level it makes sense that the empire would keep going for it. They rule through fear, and there isn't much more terrifying than knowing your planet can literally be blown up. Mounting a death star cannon on every single star destroyer though? This is the kind of world breaking mechanic that plagued TLJ and made TRoS pick up the pieces from. Similar to the the god-like force powers we have now. The powercreep in this trilogy has just gotten out of hand.



I always said that Episode 9 was going to be hard to pull off because TLJ did so much to break the rules of an established universe. So, it was disappointing to see JJ Abrams do his own set of world breaking.



The above probably makes it sound like I hated TRoS, but I really did enjoy it. I had low expectations for 2 years going into this because Rian Johnson did not build upon the foundation of TFA, more concerned with subverting expectations than actually building up the story and its characters. Hats off to JJ Abrams for a monumental effort though. This movie was by no means perfect, but with what it was building off of it still managed to delivery a coherent conclusion and deliver on some much needed character development in the span of about 2 1/2 hours. My biggest complaint is that I don't have another movie to explore these characters who for the first time in 2 years, finally have been given a reason for me to want to know more.

Spoiler

Re: Finn being force sensitive, that actually came about in TFA in one of the opening scenes. I don’t remember the details off the top of my head but he senses something that leads him to abandon the first order so that part wasn’t just one movie. Agree on basically everything else though.

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[Armor and Sword]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

1. TFA

2. ROSW

3. TLJ

4. RO

5. Solo



Solo was just boring and i like RO but it is the most overrated star wars movie in the whole franchise.

Typically whenever I see the term overrated it means a lot more people like/love it more than you.

Rogue One is fantastic!!!


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[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

Isn't that basically the definition of the word?

I feel like the vast majority of the Star Wars IP is a collection of fans picking and choosing which aspects of the universe to praise and idolize while sweeping all the bad stuff under the rug. Which is great because it means different things to everybody and each person has that special thing and relationship with the IP, but then leads down these paths of discrediting and trying to destroy somebody else's piece of fandom.

[Blzer]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX

I don't think he saw the "RO" initials in that post. I skipped them the first time and had to doube-take myself. That, or I might have no idea what we're talking about lol.

Smallville, Rouge One = R1. It's a call sign for Chrissake!!!