007 is now a woman

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Ok. You have two "minority" movies in your stable. Now look at the other 99% of movies released.

Trevor Noah touched on this in a bonus/between the scenes monologue addressing some of Scarlett Johansson's comments regarding taking certain roles. The opportunities are not there for minority actors.

[jeremym480]

Re: 007 is now a woman

I see people complaining about stuff like this all of the time. Whether it's changes in movies like this, the Little Mermaid, the "New MJ" in Spider-man, or in video games like the WNBA in NBA2K/Live.

I think that it would probably useful some people to recognize that everything isn't 100% made just for them. I mean, I'll probably never play with the WNBA team in 2K but at the same time I can be happy for everyone who will. I could be up in arms about it because it doesn't benefit me at all and for me I can look at it as lost manhours for things that I would rather see them work on. However, I'm not their only customer and that's just how it goes sometimes.

My point is if the movie's change doesn't appeal to you why not just say "no thanks" and move on? You can always let your wallet do the talking and if this fails then you will have another male 007 before you know it... just like the female Ghostbusters.

[jeremym480]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Hopefully I'm using the word irony correctly in terms of this post.

I feel like there's a huge point a lot of people miss and I think I said this during the MJ outrage in the first Spider-Man movie thread:

People, when were a lot of these movies/stories made? When people of color weren't even thought to be apart of these stories/movies in a non-stereotypical way. Well, the country evolved from that so why shouldn't these stories?

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The new MJ is probably my only negative with the new Spider-man movies. It's not because of the casting, I actually like Zendaya as an actress. I just wished that they wouldn't have made her into April Ludgate personality-wise.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: 007 is now a woman

The new MJ is probably my only negative with the new Spider-man movies. It's not because of the casting, I actually like Zendaya as an actress. I just wished that they wouldn't have made her into April Ludgate personality-wise.

I'm gonna respond to this in the FFH thread as not to take this off topic.

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[SmashMan]

Re: 007 is now a woman

I just do not, and will never, support Hollywood's attempts to go back and rewrite classic movies, tv shows, etc with minorities in an attempt to "get it right" because, in my view, it's just wrong on several levels, most notably, as I said, just plain lazy and pandering.

I can't recall anyone promoting a remake by claiming the original (or most famous production) was doing something wrong. And those versions we all know will still exist. They aren't being replaced or erased. Why assume they're trying to "get it right" instead of just making a version of a movie and the casting reflects the time it's being made?

[Blzer]

Re: 007 is now a woman

ODogg, I think the problem (for lack of a better term) with mentioning Get Out and Crazy Rich Asians in this is those movies require those races for the stories to be what they are. Of course audiences will be accepting of that if they will like the movie, and vice-versa. Otherwise, the movie doesn't work and the story doesn't manifest. I mentioned the same thing about Lakeview Terrace (interracial marriage) and Love, Simon (teenager coming out). So casting out of principle for the story is essential in times like these, and the only dispute would be the question of the film being made in the first place out of quality/conveyed message.

On a recent front, check out a very good film that came out last year called Searching. The family is Asian, but that term and culture are completely nonexistent in the film. The lead was cast out of sheer talent, and the family was cast by ideal genetics. Ordinarily, you'd hear people dismiss it outright for racial purposes (which is incredulous, by the way); the story and execution of the picture, however, are so strong that there is nary a mention online about minority race leading roles. It becomes a non-factor at that point.

Back to your point about source material, people aren't upset about the 007 casting because the individual is a woman or is black. They couldn't care less, and in fact if another spy film was made with exactly those two parameters (Proud Mary comes close, though she is a hit woman), if the film is good enough people should give it a shot regardless. You could see that many would have even wanted Idris Elba as James Bond, so it looks like "handsome, physiqued British man" were the biggest qualifiers for most people. The real problem though, which is something I've made mention of in the thread, is the change of 007 to female from source material in 2019. It's the time that we're in that is causing the largest outrage, as many think it is "change for change's sake." I hope that's not the case, and I hope the story was the first reason for them to do what they did so the quality of the film is the audience's largest take and not the casting.

Granted, some people here are just upset that 007 is taken by someone not named James Bond, and that goes back to what you said about source material. Yes, there is that camp. But anyone in here who has made a post about political correctness also has something else on their mind about this news.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Casting dictates story and characters ALL the time, but it's only a problem when it's these types of castings.

Regardless, without the aid of some tell-all book from an industry insider, or some "behind the scenes" feature for a specific movie the audience will have no clue about the casting or story process. It's an obstacle for the audience to get over if they so choose or they can remain hung up on it and fret over the quality of the story when it suits their defense.

[Blzer]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Casting dictates story and characters ALL the time, but it's only a problem when it's these types of castings.

Wait, isn't it the other way around?

You generally don't cast someone before you write a story for them, unless it's someone like Tom Cruise (and he'll generally lend a small hand in the pre-production process as well). And in instances like Get Out and Crazy Rich Asians, you have that story before you say: "Welp, looks like we need some Asians." Heck, since it was a book first then you know that casting didn't come first.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Sure, some roles may be written for a specific actor. Is that not still the same as what I stated?

And I think we need to pivot away from Get Out and Crazy Rich Asians considering the characters ethnicity is part of the story and tension whereas in Bond (or Little Mermaid or Spider-Man) it isn't.

[Blzer]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Sure, some roles may be written for a specific actor. Is that not still the same as what I stated?

That's true, but that's the exception and not the rule. When you said "all the time," I thought you meant as the majority. That's my bad.

[daflyboys]

Re: 007 is now a woman

There also isn't a need to provide white actors with roles traditionally suited to minorities. There are plenty of roles for white people. Traditionally, that hasn't been the case for minorities.

So while I get your theoretical point, it doesn't mesh with what's going on with these castings

But wait a second. If it is all about equality and equal representation and one group of people has nothing to do with another and should be interchangeable,
and/or it's just a "variability" in the casting, then why doesn't this mesh?

[bkrich83]

Re: 007 is now a woman

I have no idea what the story line for this movie is or how big or important the role of 007 is in the movie when compared to Bond. In that context I don’t care what gender or race the actor is, all I care is if this is the best casting decision for the role. Since we have no idea what the plot line to this movie is it’s far too early to tell.

This could be a great decision leading to a great movie or it could be catastrophic. Let’s let the movie and the actors involved be judged on merit not on their identity traits.


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[daflyboys]

Re: 007 is now a woman

People, when were a lot of these movies/stories made? When people of color weren't even thought to be apart of these stories/movies in a non-stereotypical way. Well, the country evolved from that so why shouldn't these stories?

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So what? Create new characters or support characters. Isn't story writing and movie making supposed to be about art (creating)? Then, create!

Instead, they are making sure the character will be beloved (because he or she is already established) coming from another demographic to appeal either to that demographic or to those who have misplaced guilt. What Marvel found in their attempts from the standpoint of the comic books is that that didn't work and took a sales hit. By and large, most people don't like successful formulas messed with to pander to certain audiences.

[CMH]

Re: 007 is now a woman

It's really really difficult to create new characters that have no source material at all, let alone one that fits a minority demographic, and make a billion dollars from it.



Hancock is the last film I can think of that had blockbuster tendencies, a huge black star attached, and did really well in the box office. But that also sat in development hell for something like 15 years. I would bet it's because at the time Hollywood was worried that superhero films wouldn't make money and the superhero was black.



Now seems like a good time for Hollywood to get serious about it, or rather for Marvel to get more serious about it. But right now, most of their black heroes are simply not very well-known and don't fit in the motion picture, big budget Hollywood trope. Black Panther was their best fit and they went for it to great success.



But would a stand-alone film about a new, original superhero do well no matter that character's skin color? I don't think Hollywood studios or Disney have the confidence to try that yet.

[Blzer]

Re: 007 is now a woman

Hancock is the last film I can think of that had blockbuster tendencies, a huge black star attached, and did really well in the box office. But that also sat in development hell for something like 15 years. I would bet it's because at the time Hollywood was worried that superhero films wouldn't make money and the superhero was black.

Black Panther as well of course (which you mentioned right after), but I assume you meant original and BP of course was not that... so point well taken. Nothing else comes to mind for me either, assuming we're not counting Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson.

John David Washington will star in Tenet next summer, so that'll probably be the next original one coming just a few months after Bond. Definitely few and far between, though.