Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Jeff Varner the last person we care about trying to defend Dan
Jeff Varner the last person we care about trying to defend Dan
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Almost fitting that an episode which will end in a giant social issue debate has been interrupted and delayed due to......you know.Comment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Time for the classic sports take: Did Dean blow it or did Tommy win it?Wolverines Wings Same Old Lions Tigers Pistons Erika ChristensenComment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Jeff Varner's conspiracy was they pre-filmed because the entire cast was going to be outraged about Dan.
Just a guess, but it seems like they made the call so that it would be easier for CBS News to cut in. We had like the 5 minute cut in, plus the normal 3-4 minutes of commercials all at once.
Or maybe that was just the plan all along and the new norm...Comment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Tommy shouldn't have won, but he wasn't that bad.
Survivor is now ruined. Overreactions coming soon, now this can be used in gameplay.
Everyone needs separate shelters to sleep in to be safe, otherwise any touching can be said to be unwanted afterwards.Comment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
"A new rule will be implemented stating unwelcome physical contact, sexual harassment and impermissible biases cannot be brought into the competition and will not be permitted as part of gameplay. This will be covered in the cast orientation for each season, along with clear instructions on how to report violations.
The show will also partner with a third-party expert in the field to review, evolve or add to these new policies and procedures going forward.
In addition, CBS Entertainment will develop appropriate enhanced policies and procedures equivalent to the new “Survivor” measures and adapt them for the network’s other reality programming going forward."
Leaves too much up to interpretation, imo.NFL- Green Bay Packers
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NHL- Carolina HurricanesComment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
I cant recall but when Kellee gave her emotional interview while she was still playing didnt the camera man ask her if she wanted them to step in regarding the situation with Dan? I swore they did and she declined. If so it seems a little ridiculous to hear her talk about how disappointed she is that they didn't believe her yet she declined the help when offered.
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
Yes she said she didn't want him removed but wasn't 100% with the answer.
I'm not sure if she was referencing CBS or the other players not believing her. I'm not sure if Dan was touching her in a sexual way, but he definitely should have stopped when she said she didn't want him touching her. If they start immediately removing players, it's going to be hard to believe players as it is easy to use it as a game move.
CBS must really have something on Dan to do what they did. They presented him as a molester and it's debatable if he meant anything by his touching or if he just is a touchy person.
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
No like I said he shouldn't have touched her after she said she didn't like it and didn't want him to touch her at all.
Accusations were already made up this season and used as a game move to save 2 women from getting voted out. Now they are going to overreact and remove players instantly.
The issue isn't sexual, it's literally touching someone, brushing up against them. Yes those can be sexual in nature, but could you really remove someone from the game for doing it without knowing it was unwanted? Worse touching goes on in the challenges. You sleep together for warmth, what happens then?
Any physical contact can be unwanted anytime after it happens. You can change your mind now at any point, so it becomes hard to react. That happened this season where the other women used it to say Dan bothered them and got Janet and Kellee to change plans.
It's just very hard to not overreact specially when this is a strategy game.
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
As a manager that has not just sat through sexual harassment lectures, but actually had to report on a guy that was soon fired, I can tell you that your take is EXACTLY the same wrong one that got CBS into this mess.
If you observe harassment, you report it regardless of the victim’s opinion. Requiring the woman to go on record contributes to a hostile work environment. There are a ton of reasons a woman may not want to push this, but it doesn’t matter. The harasser will harrass again, and management’s failure to act will increase their liability.
In my case, I happened to randomly check on one of my employees before beginning to wrap up the day, and she seemed standoffish, rude, and would not look at me. Since we normally get along well I asked her what was going on. She then looked up shocked, and said she thought I was someone else.
So I quizzed her about who was making her feel this way, and it was another manager. She worked in camera, which is tucked away, and this guy would come in and “flirt” with her in spaces no one could see. He would talk as about kissing and having sex with her, and how much better he would be.
I asked some questions, but mostly let her go on. I then told her that in my mind, this seemed to fit sexual harassment. I told her I needed to report this, then was clear that I was not asking her. But I did give her options, to report it herself, to report it with me, or to have me report it.
She was nervous, because she didn’t want to get him in trouble. I told her that if we are aware of an employee harassing, we are obligated to report it, as the next woman he harassed could use our failure to act to increase the company liability.
The next morning I came in early to keep everything as private as possible. I told no one what I was doing to protect her and the guy. The store manager was glad I did this, because, as it turned out, this guy had been transferred to our store because of a similar issue at another store.
That’s why management has to act. Keep that paper trail. The guy got. second chance, and he blew it.
On Survivor, you had Jelly having to weigh officially reporting Dan with potential fallout. Maybe he goes, but everybody blames her and votes her out. She eventually decided to ignore reporting, and play the game. Janet finds out, and she decides to risk sacrificing her game to protect the women. Missy and Elizabeth, who did receive u wanted touching, decided to embellish their feelings about Dan, not to get him out, but to get a blindside on Kellee and Janet.
Had CBS acted, none of these women would have been put in a position to weigh how to play the game, versus reporting on a gross dude. It’s the same with regular employees. That burden should not be on them if management is aware.
In this case, CBS had hours of video evidence. Yet they still felt the need to force Kellee to make the call. I will credit CBS for acknowledging their failures on this specifically, and to change their policies to improve their responsiveness. Probation seemed to understand that this was not then exploring the #metoo movement within their game, but became a case in which their failure was a key issue in this case.
Survivor and Big Brother are workplaces, not social experiments. They have to stop allowing harassment to play out, as though it is part of the game.Comment
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
It's a little different with this situation. Dan wasn't overtly harassing her. No one else voiced concerns outside of the using it in the game. CBS talked to each of them individually. Kellee viewed it as harassment and definitely unwanted, but did it cross a line to remove him from the game? I don't know when they told him to stop making physical contact with her, so if he did after that, then yes he should have been removed.
While Survivor is a workplace, it is also not a normal one. Normally no company has employees sleep next to each other. In Survivor they basically have too for warmth. That opens up people to report harassment when nothing happened, but they "feel" it was harassment. If they take a hard line approach to it, everyone could be removed from the game after the first night.
It's an extreme example, but what happens if you accidentally touch someone when sleeping or someone says you did? If you go by CBS's thoughts then you immediately remove the player. Is that fair, probably not. Multiple instances are different but I don't it makes it past 1 cloudy instance that may be nothing.
Most occurrences are cut and dry like your situation.
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Re: Survivor: Island of the Idols
These were also, not only cut and dry, but on tape. They showed him touching in flirtatious manner, several women. They showed him reaching out and playing with Missy’s foot AND her reaction in the moment.
Most situations are a million times more complicated, because it is based on what people say how things happened. Here, viewers saw it over and over. And CBS is reacting in conjunction with their lawyers, who have access to video and hours of witness statements. They understand their liability.
From The Ringer:
All season long, a contestant named Dan had been handsy with the women on his tribe. Survivor had showed multiple clips of him touching women: wrapping his arms around them as the tribe slept in its shelter, wiggling their toes, rubbing their scalps, grabbing their hips, etc.Elizabeth and Missy, who had previously complained about Dan’s touching on camera, admitted to each other that they didn’t find his behavior all that problematic. The game—and the $1 million that is on the line for the winner—often reigns supreme on Survivor.In a confessional, Elizabeth admitted she would “play up that card in whatever way possible.” Later, in regards to Dan’s touching, she said, “I know what people are talking about, but it’s more in a joking way.” Still, Elizabeth used the story to her advantage, going to Kellee and Janet separately and talking about how Dan had touched her inappropriately and assuring them that she wanted to vote Dan out. Elizabeth’s comments seemed to imply that because she never felt too uncomfortable, things must not have been very bad for Kellee.Cut through the many layers, and the bottom line is this: Missy and Elizabeth embellished claims of sexual harassment to further their place in Survivor, a move that they are rightfully getting blasted for on the internet right now. But make no mistake, though Missy and Elizabeth falsely exaggerated their own tales to their tribemates, Dan is not a falsely accused martyr. He was inappropriately touching women, and there is video evidence to back it up.Comment
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