Warning for those considering buying a 360

[Victor99]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

nugator, I totally understand what your going through, and there's no need at all to apologize. See my post on the previous page if you didn't read it already. MS totally butchered the 360 launch, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I'll argue that point until I'm blue in the face. Likewise, their customer service(at least from expierence) has been very poor. They still have a lot of work to do in the damage control department IMO.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

Ok, my points worked. FYI, you can only have 10,500 points on your account at anytime. So I had to buy arcade games I didn't have to enter all the points since they would expire if I didn't use them. I was able to add back all the games my wife was missing that she'd play, I didn't bother with games like Street Fighter 2, since she won't play that.

MS gave me 11 codes to use, 5 of which didn't work, took me another hour on the phone to correct the problem.

So, in the long run, they made good on the issue and benefited me greatly, but it took soooo many phone calls and wasted time, on an issue that should have never occured in the first place.

I just hope now that my 360 doesn't die again, or here we go again.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

I have a warranty on my TV, my consoles, and my car...because all 3 have thousands of intricate parts, any one of which can cause a total failure. Thats reality, and IMO, completely unrelated to any perceived standard of quality.

It's like saying you're pissed you have to spend hard-earned money on a car warranty, because you didn't need no stinking warranty on your 10-speed 20 years ago. Thats obviously not a fair comparison. I guess I just don't see why the idea of purchasing an extended guarantee on a peice of complex technology is viewed as some kind of moral issue.

I don't see it as a moral issue but a ripoff issue. Maybe some of you guys didn't read the link I posted before. Profits on extended warranties on electronics are almost pure cash to most stores. They make around 80% on them while other typical insurance items like cars and houses only see a 15% return. You could make the argument that making 80% return on these items is morally wrong if you wish. Either way, its not financially smart long-term to buy warranties on electronics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/01/te...ts&oref=slogin

Here is the article in print form:

The Word on Warranties: Don’t Bother

IT may be tempting to buy extended warranties with all those high-tech gadgets on your holiday list, but the experts say they are almost always a waste of money.

The experts have done the math, taking into account the odds that a product will break, as well as the price of a warranty versus the cost of repair or replacement. In almost every instance, these warranties represent pure profit for the seller and pure loss for the buyer, they say.

“Extended warranties are basically overpriced insurance products,” said Andrew Housser, a co-creator and chief executive of Bills.com, a personal finance site. “At times it makes sense to buy insurance. It’s a good idea to buy home, car, life insurance. But those are priced in a very efficient marketplace.”

Because the insurance market is competitive and policies can be easily compared, insurance companies generally post profits in the 15 percent range, while electronics retailers generate margins as high as 80 percent on warranties, Mr. Housser said. That is a sign that the products they sell rarely break down during the warranty periods, making warranties a great deal for the seller but a bad deal for the buyer.

Indeed, Mr. Housser said, in many cases electronics retailers make almost no profit on the goods they sell; they make almost all of it on the sale of extended warranties. That may explain why salespeople put so much emphasis on warranties during their sales pitches, he and other experts say.
For years, Consumer Reports magazine has been telling its readers to stay away from extended warranties on most products, including cars, appliances and televisions, based on an analysis of repair records. Tod Marks, a senior editor, said the magazine’s surveys have found that warranties are an especially bad buy for items like computers, iPods, digital cameras and smartphones, mainly because prices for these products are always falling.
He calls a warranty on an item like this a “sucker’s bet.” “You’re betting that one, the product will break, and two, that it will break in the second or third year,” after a typical manufacturer’s warranty expires, Mr. Marks said. “And three, you’re betting that the cost of repair or replacement will exceed the cost of the warranty.”

For example, a recent Consumer Reports survey found that only about 10 percent of digital cameras broke during their first five years. For an extended warranty to be valuable, it would have to cost much less than 10 percent of the purchase price, since a camera with the same features will probably cost much less by the time you need a replacement. Yet a warranty on a digital camera usually costs 15 percent to 20 percent of the purchase price, Mr. Marks said.

The magazine’s surveys occasionally turn up examples of products that are better candidates for an extended warranty because of a high incidence of repairs. Early data on rear-projection television sets sold in 2005 and 2006 showed that 10 percent needed repairs (about three times the repair rate of picture tube and flat panel sets). Most repairs were bulb replacements, which cost about $400, including labor. So an extended warranty below that price might be worth it, Mr. Marks said.

But over all, extended warranties almost never pay for themselves. “If you’re someone who lies awake at night worrying, put that same money into a rainy-day repair fund,” Mr. Marks said. “Now you have the money to fix most problems. And if nothing breaks, go out to dinner and enjoy yourself.”
Risk aversion is a big reason why people keep buying warranties — totaling about $16 billion last year — despite the overwhelming evidence that they are a bad deal, said Amanda G. Nicholson, an assistant business professor at the Whitman School of Management at Syracuse University.
“They have become more prevalent as we are becoming less capable of fixing things ourselves,” Professor Nicholson said. “Most of us don’t know how any of this stuff works.”

So many people will pay just about any price for peace of mind, even when an item is so cheap it is practically disposable. Professor Nicholson recalled that a colleague spent $15 on a one-time-replacement warranty for a $35 portable CD player for her 14-year-old son, because he is known to break things. “You could drop it in the ocean and they would replace it, and guess what,” she said, “he dropped it in the ocean.”

Paradoxically, the people who are late in adopting new technology buy the bulk of the extended warranties, even though the products are less expensive and more reliable by the time they are buying, said Amar Cheema, a business professor at Washington University in St. Louis. He theorizes that these people are less comfortable with technology and thus more vulnerable to sales pitches for extended warranties.

“This is why you see them as an add-on cost that pops up after you have already made the commitment,” Professor Cheema said. “At the checkout, they say, ‘Hey, you just bought that for $900, pay just $150 for an extra two-year protection plan.’ ”

Buyers should be suspicious of these tactics, experts say, as well as offers to stretch out the price of a warranty over time, as part of a cellphone plan, for example. “From a budgeting perspective, $2 a month is nothing,” Professor Cheema said, “but if it’s $72 by the end of the period, it’s more than a new cellphone might cost.”

Mr. Housser of Bills.com says it is also worth noting that many retailers use third-party companies to honor extended warranties, and that can add red tape and time to a repair. “For them, any claim is a loss,” he said. Of course, there is always the possibility that an expensive gadget will break, and you will wish you had bought the warranty. But experts agree that over many years of buying many products, saying no to extended warranties will save you bundles of cash.

[Jistic]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

Yep, extended warranties are great money makers. I used to work at a computer store back in the day and as salesmen we made 0$ on selling computers but ALL our commission was on service contracts. They make a killing in that department.

The only thing I have an extended warranty on is my car, my big screen (the warranty also included one free lamp replacement which pays for itself minus about $20) and my consoles. PS2 taught me the hard way that I needed all of a sudden to have one. I had PS2 break twice on me and the old Xbox once. The difference being that at least they lasted a few years before dieing. My 360 just died last week after being a whopping 5 months old with very little play. And yes I had a warranty.

I don't warranty anything else. I have a ton of portable electornics, home theatre components, and they all run fine. Extended warranties are a scam, that's no secret. The only thing is, if you're gonna buy ANY console you know that it's gonna break, probably sooner than later. So it's worth it to buy the warranty. Other electronics? Don't bother.

[PdiddyPop]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

am i the only person left on OS with a launch 360?? lol

I still have mine.

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

I still have mine.

mine is still going strong..

[pk500]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

Also, what the hell do you mean "by accept 2 or 3 bull ish"? What are we supposed to do? We bought a 360 with a warranty and if it breaks we send it in for a replacement. Its not like you can demand a refund and it would be idiotic to just accept that the 360 is broken and lose out on $400.

Seriously, what are you going to do on day 91 or day 122 if your ps3 breaks with no warranty? Pay another 600 bucks when you could have bought a warranty for 50 bucks.

You move to another console instead of supporting a manufacturer that cranks out crap.

If you had three Ford Focuses break in 18 months, would you continue to buy a Focus? I don't think so. I would bet you would look at Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc.

Put it this way: If someone's third 360 broke next spring and the PS3 was reliable at launch (fat chance, I know!), I would give serious consideration to spending the extra cake on the PS3 instead of supporting Microsoft's shoddy workmanship, parts sourcing or build quality.

This is what backbreaker is getting at, I think. People are just so accepting of failures that it's depressing. I agree with backbreaker, 100 percent.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

For the record, I didn't expect that this thread would go on for this many pages and I certainly wasn't trying to steer anyone toward a PS3 or a Wii. I hold no allegiances and typically buy all consoles within a given generation-- not just one.

Don't apologize, man: This has been a GREAT thread, one of the best on OS in months. Very informative, enlightening and civil. And let's face it, hardware failure is a HUGE issue for gamers -- arguably the biggest -- now that people are spending $500 and more for a system.

Bravo, man. You deserve a standing O for starting this thread. It's a keeper.

Take care,
PK

P.S.: I got my DS Lite last night. Didn't get a chance to play, as I had to charge it and didn't get a chance to apply my screen protector. Looking forward to it, though!

[pk500]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

Knowing that fact, its smart to protect your purchase by purchasing a warranty. The bottom line is all three companies have made faulty products in the last few years ...

True, in reality. But in theory, shouldn't the stuff be built to last exiting the factory? That's the way it used to be. I owned an Intellicast -- zero problems. I owned an NES -- zero problems. I owned a Gameboy -- zero problems. I owned a PlayStation -- zero problems. I owned a Dreamcast -- zero problems. I owned a PS2 -- zero problems. I owned an Xbox -- first one crapped out within three months, total failure. And now I read all about the 360 failures.

So it seems quality is sinking in the gaming hardware business while we're expected to pay two and three times more than we ever have for that hardware.

What bothers me more than anything -- reality or not -- is that we're expected to buy a warranty for a console as standard operating procedure. That burns my azz, for two reasons. One, these things should be built to endure "normal" use. Two, extended warranties are HUGE profit generators for retail companies and console manufacturers and are pushed harder than clean needles to heroin addicts for that reason, not because they "good" for the gamer.

Take care,
PK

[fishepa]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

If you had three Ford Focuses break in 18 months, would you continue to buy a Focus? I don't think so. I would bet you would look at Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc.

This is an interesting point. The warranty on a 360 is approximately 10% of the cost of the unit, so let's say the cost of a Ford Focus is $15,000 and you could theoretically buy a replacement warranty on it for $1500 to cover anything happening to the car when it's past it's warranty. So you drive the car for 6 years and it's past its warranty and the engine blows. I would think it's a pretty good deal for $1500 for the dealership to give me a brand new Ford Focus.

[Pete1210]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

You move to another console instead of supporting a manufacturer that cranks out crap.

If you had three Ford Focuses break in 18 months, would you continue to buy a Focus? I don't think so. I would bet you would look at Chevy, Toyota, Honda, etc.

Put it this way: If someone's third 360 broke next spring and the PS3 was reliable at launch (fat chance, I know!), I would give serious consideration to spending the extra cake on the PS3 instead of supporting Microsoft's shoddy workmanship, parts sourcing or build quality.

This is what backbreaker is getting at, I think. People are just so accepting of failures that it's depressing. I agree with backbreaker, 100 percent.

Take care,
PK

The problem for me switching to a PS3 is the 50 or so guys I game with regularly on my live friends list. It took a few years to build up our gaming commmunity. After spending $400 plus accessories and games, only 1 or 2 are even considering the PS3.
My xbox purchased in 2001 is still running strong. So I figured the 360 would follow. After two failures I got the warranty. I am upset about the failures, but I was lucky as in my case the only inconvenience was being without the 360 for 3 days.

[PlayaHataSupreme]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

You move to another console instead of supporting a manufacturer that cranks out crap.


Take care,
PK

Yes, I could stick with a PS2.......... but what if I felt like I would be punishing myself MORE by resisting the emphatic urge to go get a 360 than if I endured a little peace of mind by cranking out the extra $60 for a warranty......

Some people probably would rather punish themselves by enduring the extra cost and hassles of a next-gen console instead of punishing themselves by not getting one at all. I'm all for not supporting sub-par products, but not at the expense of me constantly feeling like I'm missing something.


It's an emotional thing, really........ you, pk, are acting with your mind, and that's a good thing. It's the people who act with their hearts and emotions that are more susceptible to getting "ripped off". Though with my luck, getting the X360 with a warranty would be well worth it.

In their minds, they feel like it's worth the price of the warranty, especially if they've been burned before yet they are anxious to step in the next-gen arena. If only all of us had your self-control......... Sony/MS would be forced to up the ante on the quality of the products.

[pk500]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

The problem for me switching to a PS3 is the 50 or so guys I game with regularly on my live friends list. It took a few years to build up our gaming commmunity. After spending $400 plus accessories and games, only 1 or 2 are even considering the PS3.
My xbox purchased in 2001 is still running strong. So I figured the 360 would follow. After two failures I got the warranty. I am upset about the failures, but I was lucky as in my case the only inconvenience was being without the 360 for 3 days.

Valid points, no doubt. I hope to build up a list of online "regulars" on the DS Lite like I had on Xbox Live with the original Xbox.

Take care,
PK

[Skerik]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

The problem for me switching to a PS3 is the 50 or so guys I game with regularly on my live friends list. It took a few years to build up our gaming commmunity. After spending $400 plus accessories and games, only 1 or 2 are even considering the PS3.
My xbox purchased in 2001 is still running strong. So I figured the 360 would follow. After two failures I got the warranty. I am upset about the failures, but I was lucky as in my case the only inconvenience was being without the 360 for 3 days.

I was just talking about this with Sully the other day. Lately, the 360's online implementation has been feeling clunky to me. XBL is full of laggy kinds of delays, games suffer from noticable hitching and splashy controls online....the whole online implementation just doesn't feel smooth to me. If the PS3's online interface and implementation feel smooth and don't have the same, "Gee I hope this works" feeling that the 360 has been giving me lately, I'd gladly switch over to the PS3 as my online gaming console.

The problem, however, is that like you said maybe 5% of my friends list (if that) will be taking the PS3 plunge. I've built up my friends list on XBL with people I enjoy playing with and if almost none of them are going to make the jump to the PS3, it's kind of hard to adopt that console as my online gaming machine of choice.

But like I said, I've been very underwhelmed with the 360's online performance lately. EA's football games are clunky, NBA is clunky, even navigating the friends list and the marketplace is clunky. The games that work smoothly like COD3 and SCDA are few and far between, and even SCDA has had its share of server problems for us lately. Hopefully this new round of shooters will be more like those games, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high. It's just a shame that so many of the sports games are dead to me on XBL right now.

[pk500]

Re: Warning for those considering buying a 360

If only all of us had your self-control......... Sony/MS would be forced to up the ante on the quality of the products.

It's not self-control; it's being tighter than two coats of paint.

Take care,
PK