Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

[mgoblue]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

There's nothing wrong with people having an opinion and expressing it harmlessly in a petition. Ultimately, it's just as pointless as making a video mocking those opinions and about the value of a game.

Besides, Sessler misses the point. He's looking at it like a console player, when it's primarily an issue with PC gamers. L4D2 is a perfectly acceptable sequel that consoles see all the time.

People aren't "bitching" because there's a new game coming, even if it was announced 7 months after the first one released. The majority of these "whiners" are PC players upset because Valve promised that L4D would be a long living platform for DLC and community mods. Valve even cited the excellent Team Fortress 2 support as a blueprint for L4D. This undoubtedly led people to buy the game, and the SDK still isn't out for fans to busy themselves making their own content.

And Valve has said they'd still support L4D...I understand people having some issues, but he's right in that gamers have some false sense of entitlement...

Look at sports gamers...if they don't get that sock color or little feature they wanted they treat it like someone kicked their kid in the head.

I don't care if they're pissed, they certainly can feel however they want, I guess PC gamers just have to realize that the marketplace is slowly changing and they're not gonna like it. Gaming is a business and you don't make money giving stuff away for free all the time.

[bkfount]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

And Valve has said they'd still support L4D...I understand people having some issues, but he's right in that gamers have some false sense of entitlement...

He'd be correct in this instance if people were whining about games like Burnout Paradise not having enough free content. They offered an awesome game, and then decided to offer a ton of game changing DLC more than a year after release. The difference with L4D is that Valve promised it was coming before the game came out, essentially building some expectation of DLC it into the price of the game.

I guess PC gamers just have to realize that the marketplace is slowly changing and they're not gonna like it. Gaming is a business and you don't make money giving stuff away for free all the time.

Which is why Valve has stated numerous times they have to give consumers more value for their games.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

"One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.

"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

[mgoblue]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

He'd be correct in this instance if people were whining about games like Burnout Paradise not having enough free content. They offered an awesome game, and then decided to offer a ton of game changing DLC more than a year after release. The difference with L4D is that Valve promised it was coming before the game came out, essentially building some expectation of DLC it into the price of the game.




Which is why Valve has stated numerous times they have to give consumers more value for their games.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve...nch_plans.html

As far as I know everything I've read says Valve will still be releasing DLC and supporting L4D for a while...so not really as much reason for people to be so angry....

I don't know, if I was a PC gamer I don't think I'd want to boycott pretty much the only company that truly gives a damn about PC gaming...

Yes, they're releasing the sequel, but they've said they're still doing stuff for L4D too, so what is there to bitch about besides the fact people aren't getting 6+ years of free stuff for buying L4D?

[Flawless]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

Left 4 Dead 2 Interview

Eurogamer: So at the moment, you have separate teams working on Left 4 Dead 2 and supporting the original game?

Doug Lombardi: There's a couple of different teams, actually. There's guys working on Left 4 Dead 2, guys working on Left 4 Dead 1 stuff, and then guys working on the authoring tools for Left 4 Dead - the mod-making stuff. Regarding the Left 4 Dead 1 content, we'll be announcing stuff in the coming weeks, but there's nothing I can say about it today.

Eurogamer: Did you expect the negative reaction from some fans following the announcement of Left 4 Dead 2?

Doug Lombardi: We obviously listen to the community a lot. That's one of our staples. Did we anticipate it? No, we didn't, but I think that one of the key things is: announcing Left 4 Dead 2 doesn't mean we're abandoning Left 4 Dead 1. Another thing is it's important to remember that E3 is where you go to announce new titles, specifically titles that are coming to retail. We do press there, but it's not really a venue for announcing DLC or mod tools. So I think there was a little bit of confusion that we created unintentionally, by announcing a sequel and not having the complete story ready: announcing it and not saying, there's still a lot of stuff being worked on for Left 4 Dead 1, and the mod tools will work with both games. I think that, over time, folks will see what we're up to, and there's more of this story to be told in terms of what's to come for both games.

Eurogamer: Even with Left 4 Dead's AI director, after a while, players spot techniques that they can exploit again and again - things like getting into a corner to keep the horde at bay, for example. How do you ensure things stay fresh?

Doug Lombardi: That's one of the reasons we went for a sequel. We realised people were kind of gaming the game, particularly with that backing-up-against-the-wall stuff. So for one thing, we're redesigning the finales, and turning them into scenarios where we put you on the run: you have to keep moving, or you'll get overloaded. Then there's new bosses like the Charger - that big wild arm, that's to bat you around and move you about. You can pretty much be guaranteed that if you wedge yourself up against a wall, you're going to see a Charger pretty quickly, and he's going to swat you away.

There's always going to be a level where, when people get 100 hours in, they're going to discover a way to game the game. That's fine. And then we'll figure out how to counter it again, and give them something else to figure out how to break.

Eurogamer: Did you ever discuss using the AI director to move actual geometry around, or is that something that's just never going to be a good idea?

Doug Lombardi: It's something we're toying with. In New Orleans, the coffins are above ground, so you have these mini mausoleum buildings, for example: the first time you go through, the mausoleum will be laid out in a certain way, and the next time it will be different. It's not quite random level generation, but it is doing things with world objects and pathing to give you one more thing to keep you on your toes. Another thing is weather effects. When you're in the swamp for example, you're up to your waist a lot of the time, and one thing we might do is roll in fog effects, so you've got enemies coming at you from ten feet of visibility. Obviously, only if you're doing well will you see that, but it's another way to tailor to people's skill set.

[Cyros]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

You have the part about the AI Director quoted twice in your post.

[eDotd]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

I'm glad to see backing up into a wall/corner is being addressed.

[mgoblue]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

I'm glad to see backing up into a wall/corner is being addressed.

I'm very interested to see how they grow the gameplay....once you got on harder levels you really did have to do the "Move to a spot. Stop. Backs against the wall, fight them off. Repeat until end of section" routine a lot. That's honestly a pretty decent strategy <STRIKE>if zombies ever are</STRIKE> when zombies are coming after us in real life, so I can't hate on it, but it'll be cool to mix it up more.

[Brandwin]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

Eurogamer: Did you ever discuss using the AI director to move actual geometry around, or is that something that's just never going to be a good idea?

Doug Lombardi: It's something we're toying with. In New Orleans, the coffins are above ground, so you have these mini mausoleum buildings, for example: the first time you go through, the mausoleum will be laid out in a certain way, and the next time it will be different. It's not quite random level generation, but it is doing things with world objects and pathing to give you one more thing to keep you on your toes. Another thing is weather effects. When you're in the swamp for example, you're up to your waist a lot of the time, and one thing we might do is roll in fog effects, so you've got enemies coming at you from ten feet of visibility. Obviously, only if you're doing well will you see that, but it's another way to tailor to people's skill set.

NICE!!!

[bkfount]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

Left 4 Dead 2 Interview
Eurogamer: So at the moment, you have separate teams working on Left 4 Dead 2 and supporting the original game?

Doug Lombardi: There's a couple of different teams, actually. There's guys working on Left 4 Dead 2, guys working on Left 4 Dead 1 stuff, and then guys working on the authoring tools for Left 4 Dead - the mod-making stuff. Regarding the Left 4 Dead 1 content, we'll be announcing stuff in the coming weeks, but there's nothing I can say about it today.

I've been needing a reason to jump back into L4D. I only needed a little more for Zombie Genocidest, but got bored of the game.

[Flawless]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

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[bkfount]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/04/valve-left-4-dead-2-multiplayer-demo-on-its-way/#comments

Valve: Left 4 Dead 2 multiplayer demo on its way, pre-order customers get 'advanced access'

Doug Lombardi has told Joystiq that a multiplayer demo for Valve's Left 4 Dead 2 is planned for both the Xbox 360 and PC. According to Valve's PR guru, users who pre-order the upcoming zombie survival title at "participating retailers or [via] Steam" will gain "advanced access to the demo," which will eventually land on both platforms for all users prior to the game's November 17 launch.

Speaking with OXM at a recent London preview event, Lombardi discussed the strength of Left 4 Dead's "word of mouth," which has presumably fueled the need for a demo to the sequel. With groups calling for a boycott of Left 4 Dead 2 due to lack of content support for the original title, a demo may be the best way for Valve to prove why it believes its sequel warrants a full price tag. Although, strong pre-order numbers tell us the game is already on pace to decimate sales charts like a zombie tank.

This is becoming an annoying trend. Why do companies tie demos to a preorder? Madden is doing it, and now L4D is doing it. The point of a demo is to get more potential buyers interested in a game, not people who have already decided to throw down money for it.

[mgoblue]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/04/va...-way/#comments



This is becoming an annoying trend. Why do companies tie demos to a preorder? Madden is doing it, and now L4D is doing it. The point of a demo is to get more potential buyers interested in a game, not people who have already decided to throw down money for it.

I think the point of these is to get people "on the fence" to hop down and preorder.

Companies release demos relatively before the game for the "unsure" customers, but this is all about feeding on the Veruca Salt "I want it now" hardcore gamers...

I agree that the trend's annoying, but it's not going away for sure.

[Flawless]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

At least everybody will have the chance to experience the demo before release. A way more annoying trend is locking content that's already on the disc and using at as pre-order incentive, then putting that content up for download (charging for it) for those that didn't pre-order.

[ChubbyBanana]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

At least everybody will have the chance to experience the demo before release. A way more annoying trend is locking content that's already on the disc and using at as pre-order incentive, then putting that content up for download (charging for it) for those that didn't pre-order.

I agree. I'd rather tie a pre-order to a demo than special content already on disc.

Plus, I really only pre-order games that I know I'm going to buy day one, so it's great to get to taste a little bit of the game before it drops.

[Brandwin]

Re: Left 4 Dead 2 (360/PC)

I agree. I'd rather tie a pre-order to a demo than special content already on disc.

Plus, I really only pre-order games that I know I'm going to buy day one, so it's great to get to taste a little bit of the game before it drops.

I agree.

Plus, I don't mind preordering a game I am not sure about. If I don't like it, I just get my money back or move it to another game. No loss.

I am looking forward to the game.