Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

[trobinson97]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I think the people who love FFX are the same people who ask "How many cutscenes does it have?" when a new JRPG comes out.

What brought you to that conclusion?

[DakkoN]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I think that holds true for FF7 more than any other FF.

A game that I can play over and over, without ever getting bored of it, is not a game that I "remember" for more than it was. I just started a new game on it and it is just as great as it ever was. It's a game that I play through about once a year, it's not like I'm looking back on a game I played in 1997 and saying "that game was awesome".

[peteykirch]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I'll put it this way, most of the time if your first gaming system was a PS1, FF7 will be the crown jewel, because you never took the time to appreciate what was done on the SNES.

Chrono Trigger, FF2 and 3 took that system to the limits and what they accomplished on that console was astounding.

[Misfit]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I think the people who love FFX are the same people who ask "How many cutscenes does it have?" when a new JRPG comes out.

I disagree, and I've never met anyone who's asked that question about an RPG, japanese or otherwise.

Gameplay wise, there isn't much separating FF7 from FFX. They both make use of Square's now classic ATB system and both feature 3 characters per battle. The only distinction from a gameplay standpoint is with the summons and sphere grid vs the materia system. I would argue the materia system and sphere grid accomplish the same thing through different means. Both allow the user to customize the characters to their liking though the game encourages each character to play to a particular strength. The summons were just FMV attacks in FF7 while in FFX they were playable characters once per battle.

I like both games and think they're both among the best in the series. FF7 was the first highly anticipated Final Fantasy in the states. The FMV effects at the time were pretty impressive even if the standard graphics engine was not. The plot was sophisticated and most of the characters memorable. FFX was a new benchmark in terms of graphics and production values for Square and the PS2 when it came out. The characters were fleshed out well and distinct and the plot easy to identify with, which isn't always the case with Final Fantasy games (though how identifiable a story is varies from user to user).

Some things I enjoy more about FF7 would the lead character and the materia system. I liked the freedom it brought in not only assigning spells to each character but also with combining effects with weapons and the light blue materias. Cloud was just a "cool" lead and quite stylized with the oversized buster sword. Some things i enjoy more about FFX would be the plot, the pacing, and the cast of characters. I got more use out of each character in X vs 7. The only deadweight for me was Khimari where as in 7 I basically stuck with Cloud, Cid, and Vincent and found little use with the rest. Because the materia system was so loose it made the characters who could do the most damage or equip the best weapons the more useful. I also felt the plot unfolded really well in X and the twists were executed well. This is not to say the plot and story in 7 was poor by any means, just not quite as good, in my opinion. Also, if given the choice, I'll take blitz ball any day over chocobo racing.

What faults the games have are mostly shared. Both games still had random encounters and both were perhaps a little too comfortable in re-using the same tried and true gameplay, but that's something all of the Final Fantasy games share save for XI and XII. Critically, both are praised. Metacritic has both as holding a 92 rating, although more than twice as many reviews exists for FFX as opposed to FF7. Japanese gaming mag Famitsu, usually the first source for reviews of Final Fantasy titles, awarded FF7 a 38 out of 40 and FFX a 39 out of 40. I don't know what the difference between a 38 and a 39 game is so I'm inclined to say they're even.

Everyone is going to have a preference for one over the other. Given the game's similarities I would wager people are mostly going to prefer one over the other based on they relate to the characters and which game they experienced first. To suggest that one is so beyond the other and any opinion contradicting that is false is ridiculous in and of itself.

[trobinson97]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

Great post Misfit, would read again.

[Cebby]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

FFVII is my favorite FF on the PSX.

7>Tactics>9>8, but I thoroughly enjoyed all four. I liked all of them better than 10 and couldn't even get through 12. I'm not much for the pre-7 games. I respect their value, but since I've started reading, I now need pretty graphics and high quality music for my mediocre stories.

[Defel]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I disagree, and I've never met anyone who's asked that question about an RPG, japanese or otherwise.

I'm sorry I brought it up, but I have and it's sore spot with me because it's a ridiculous thing to rate a game's quality by. They also happened to love FFX enough to own costumes from the game. Some of them even liked X-2. You really shoudn't meet them as you can observe people like this from afar on the internet in such places as GameFAQs.

FFVII and FFX are similar. They are the most similar out of any two of the numbered FF games. The gameplay deficiencies that both share annoyed me more the second time around. If I were to rank all of the games, 7 and 10 would be right next to each other in the low end of the middle of the pack.

[Pared]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I disagree, and I've never met anyone who's asked that question about an RPG, japanese or otherwise.

Gameplay wise, there isn't much separating FF7 from FFX. They both make use of Square's now classic ATB system and both feature 3 characters per battle. The only distinction from a gameplay standpoint is with the summons and sphere grid vs the materia system. I would argue the materia system and sphere grid accomplish the same thing through different means. Both allow the user to customize the characters to their liking though the game encourages each character to play to a particular strength. The summons were just FMV attacks in FF7 while in FFX they were playable characters once per battle.

I like both games and think they're both among the best in the series. FF7 was the first highly anticipated Final Fantasy in the states. The FMV effects at the time were pretty impressive even if the standard graphics engine was not. The plot was sophisticated and most of the characters memorable. FFX was a new benchmark in terms of graphics and production values for Square and the PS2 when it came out. The characters were fleshed out well and distinct and the plot easy to identify with, which isn't always the case with Final Fantasy games (though how identifiable a story is varies from user to user).

Some things I enjoy more about FF7 would the lead character and the materia system. I liked the freedom it brought in not only assigning spells to each character but also with combining effects with weapons and the light blue materias. Cloud was just a "cool" lead and quite stylized with the oversized buster sword. Some things i enjoy more about FFX would be the plot, the pacing, and the cast of characters. I got more use out of each character in X vs 7. The only deadweight for me was Khimari where as in 7 I basically stuck with Cloud, Cid, and Vincent and found little use with the rest. Because the materia system was so loose it made the characters who could do the most damage or equip the best weapons the more useful. I also felt the plot unfolded really well in X and the twists were executed well. This is not to say the plot and story in 7 was poor by any means, just not quite as good, in my opinion. Also, if given the choice, I'll take blitz ball any day over chocobo racing.

What faults the games have are mostly shared. Both games still had random encounters and both were perhaps a little too comfortable in re-using the same tried and true gameplay, but that's something all of the Final Fantasy games share save for XI and XII. Critically, both are praised. Metacritic has both as holding a 92 rating, although more than twice as many reviews exists for FFX as opposed to FF7. Japanese gaming mag Famitsu, usually the first source for reviews of Final Fantasy titles, awarded FF7 a 38 out of 40 and FFX a 39 out of 40. I don't know what the difference between a 38 and a 39 game is so I'm inclined to say they're even.

Everyone is going to have a preference for one over the other. Given the game's similarities I would wager people are mostly going to prefer one over the other based on they relate to the characters and which game they experienced first. To suggest that one is so beyond the other and any opinion contradicting that is false is ridiculous in and of itself.

Great, GREAT post.

[thornie]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I wish FF would go back to this turn base battle system

AMEN! I knew I wasn't alone.

I think the reason why FF7 often gets mentioned as the greatest game of all time and the best in the series, is because it was a lot of peoples first FF game and often times first RPG. I find the gamers who say FF7 is overrated were already FF veterans from the NES/SNES when when 7 came out. FF7 did a lot to attract and hook the casual gamer who didn't even know what RPG stood for. I say this because I was one of those people. After falling in love with FF7, I became a junkie and played every JRPG I could get my hands on. So ultimately I look back on FF7 as the best game to start people off on RPGs. It had great action, great music, enormous bosses, and amazing visuals. It's not my favorite RPG (that would have to be Wild Arms) but it certainly is up there.

IMO It deserves all the accolades it receives for changing how people perceive RPGs. Showing that an RPG could be a blockbuster game, sell tons of copies and attract all types of gamers.

[jfsolo]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

Its on the short list to be sure. In the U.S. it is the game that moved R.P.G.'s out of the niche category and made them a mainstream genre.

For its time, the combination of story, character development, and graphics was unmatched. Its a game that permanently alters your perception of what is possible or even expected in genre. It raised the bar for greatness considerably. Especially for console RPG's.

I'll speak on a few other games as well.

FF VI which was FF III here in the U.S. is, IMO, as good as FF VII in every way except the graphics-it being release on the SNES of course. If you forced me to choose I would say that FF VI is better, but its a Lebron-Kobe argument to me.

The production values and polish of FF X are simply mind boggling. The plot and some of the characters are what diminish it somewhat in my mind. Give FF VI this tech and it might have been the perfect game.

Final Fantasy Tactics- From a gameplay standpoint this is by far my favorite FF game. Since I prefer the combat of strategy RPG's I was on Cloud Nine when this game came out. Give me the story and graphics of a regular FF game, with the SRPG gameplay, and I'll pay $100 buck for that game.

I'll finish by saying that Xenogears, another RPG by Squaresoft, that came out a year after FF VII, and probably cost 1/3 of what that game did, is IMO, the best console RPG and game of all time. Sadly, it was game that got lost in enormous shadow that was created by FF VII.

[Cebby]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I'll finish by saying that Xenogears, another RPG by Squaresoft, that came out a year after FF VII, and probably cost 1/3 of what that game did, is IMO, the best console RPG and game of all time. Sadly, it was game that got lost in enormous shadow that was created by FF VII.

I think Xenogears is the best RPG on the Playstation, but I'd put Panzer Dragoon Saga over it overall. Granted, part of its appeal is knowing I have one of only a few thousand copies, but it's an amazing game.

[Misfit]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I'll finish by saying that Xenogears, another RPG by Squaresoft, that came out a year after FF VII, and probably cost 1/3 of what that game did, is IMO, the best console RPG and game of all time. Sadly, it was game that got lost in enormous shadow that was created by FF VII.

Xenogears is my favorite game. I wasn't sure if this topic was intended to include non Final Fantasy games or not but that is an excellent game. I still have my original black label copy and Brady strategy guide. It would probably be a tough game for some to play now as its really text heavy, especially the beginning of disc two, but I enjoy it every time I play it.

[Pared]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

As many people knock it, I extremely enjoyed VIII and IX as well.

[Perceptor]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

I'll finish by saying that Xenogears, another RPG by Squaresoft, that came out a year after FF VII, and probably cost 1/3 of what that game did, is IMO, the best console RPG and game of all time. Sadly, it was game that got lost in enormous shadow that was created by FF VII.

Agreed. I lost my copy, but somehow still have my Brady guide and I am dying to play that game. I am considering getting it again, but remain optimistic that it will be released on PSN at some point.

Loved Tactics, but I will say this...one of the games I loved playing at the end that thought was better than FFVII was Chrono Cross.

It was awesome.....simply put

[MaSTA SoLIDUS]

Re: Final Fantasy VII Discussion.

Before I post, let me first say I haven't run into a FF I didn't like. Chocobo Dungeon's are even pretty decent to me.

FFVII is the progenitor when it comes to cinematic RPGs. It is the best game ever to me because of it's use of the characters, plot, gameplay, and world design. Everythign about the game is iconic. It was the first game to do what games now do on a regular basis. This sticks in the minds of gamers everywhere.

(This could more accurately be attributed to giving Hironobu Sakaguchi some decent tech to play with...because Lost Odyssey is probably his most thorough and unique RPG ever. One of his best. And because he is the father of the modern JRPG, by extension, LO is one of the best ever.)

Chrono (Cross and Trigger) had iconic bits and pieces. Mostly Toriyama-san's art and Uematsu's music. The story in Cross was great, but Trigger didn't translate well because of the tech (the cutscenes in the remade Trigger on PSX helped flesh it out more).

Xenogears' plot is very convoluted, and Fei isn't the easiest character to empathize with.

Suikoden II wasn't really mentioned, but it should be because it is a damn fine series in it's own right.

I don't count zelda, because it isn't really an RPG...

...but if I had to rate best games ever FFVII is still first, with Ocarina of Time a close second, Metal Gear Solid third, MGS4 4th, and Shadow of the Colossus 5th.

It's so hard to judge FFs against each other though, because they aren't made to compete with each other. They are completely different epics, only held together by the traditional JRPG tenets. Which is why the last true FF, XII, is my least favorite. The story is great, and the characters, but the gameplay turned me off. it isn't a FF to me. Makes sense that Sakaguchi-san isn't on baord...it's evident.

I have hope for FFXIII, because Tetuya Nomura is leading the teams (character designer for VII, director of VII:AC), but he is also action oriented (look at his main work in Kingdom Hearts).

Anyway, VII is IMO the single best game ever made. it should be played according to what it was intended to do (convey story, conflict and emotion), not how it looks. Actually, that's every RPG.

Which is why RPGs are so easily compared generationally...and I don't deel bad at all saying with a straight face FFIX is light years ahead of some of the newer titles.

(Star Ocean: The Second Story and also SO: The Last hope aren't slouches either)